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White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

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Smokified said:
Show me some statistics that indicate that the war(s) cost more than the constant upkeep of entitlement programs.
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I never said they cost more, I said they were more wasteful.
 
washunut said:
How about guilty of stupidity. We loaned a half billion to a company who built a product that cost $5 and sold for $3.25. The we will find out if they the way loan was structured with the government taking the loss before investors is in fact in contradiction to the law.
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That doesn't even come close to how stupid it was to invade Iraq, nor close to how much it cost us, either in terms of taxpayer dollars or loss of life.
 
Catawba said:
That doesn't even come close to how stupid it was to invade Iraq, nor close to how much it cost us, either in terms of taxpayer dollars or loss of life.
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What does Iraq have to do with the current economic conditions, 25 million plus unemployed and under employed, and the 4 trillion Obama has added to the debt?
 
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another lie is the impact of an effective rate

lets assume that the average middle class person has a marginal rate of 18% and the billionaire has an effective rate of near 18% as Buffett claims

guess what a marginal rate of 18% translates to in terms of an effective rate on say 60K

FAR FAR LESS THAN an effective rate of 18%
 
Catawba said:
You just never stop spinning do you? Your article is not comparing the percentage of total taxes paid of the total income earned.
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sorry to bust your bubble but its about income taxes at the federal level

not state taxes not gasoline taxes, not excise taxes on firearms or booze, not property taxes
 
Catawba said:
You just never stop spinning do you? Your article is not comparing the percentage of total taxes paid of the total income earned.
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What business is it of yours as to how much someone else makes and what percentage of that is paid in Taxes? The article points out that those evil rich people pay a higher percentage in taxes and obviously a lot more in taxes than anyone else. Obama is simply a liar.
 
TurtleDude said:
This year, households making more than $1 million will pay an average of 29.1 percent of their income in federal taxes, including income taxes, payroll taxes and other taxes, according to the Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank.
Households making between $50,000 and $75,000 will pay an average of 15 percent of their income in federal taxes.
Lower-income households will pay less. For example, households making between $40,000 and $50,000 will pay an average of 12.5 percent of their income in federal taxes. Households making between $20,000 and $30,000 will pay 5.7 percent.
The latest IRS figures are a few years older — and limited to federal income taxes — but show much the same thing. In 2009, taxpayers who made $1 million or more paid on average 24.4 percent of their income in federal income taxes, according to the IRS.
Those making $100,000 to $125,000 paid on average 9.9 percent in federal income taxes. Those making $50,000 to $60,000 paid an average of 6.3 percent

Obama is a lying prick is what the truth is
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And again, irrelevant comparisons are irrelevant. It is not what the average pays, but what individuals pay. And you know this. Averages are for the most part meaningless. Here is what Obama actually said, from the AP article:

"Warren Buffett's secretary shouldn't pay a higher tax rate than Warren Buffett. There is no justification for it," Obama said as he announced his deficit-reduction plan this week. "It is wrong that in the United States of America, a teacher or a nurse or a construction worker who earns $50,000 should pay higher tax rates than somebody pulling in $50 million."
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Notice that he is not talking about averages, he is talking about individuals, and in some cases, he is absolutely correct.
 
Conservative said:
What does Iraq have to do with the current economic conditions, 25 million plus unemployed and under employed, and the 4 trillion Obama has added to the debt?
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The Iraq war was a large (and the most wasteful) chunk of our national debt that you like to complain about. At least the money Obama spent was to help our own citizens that are hurting. Also, your 4 trillion figure is inaccurate. You are crediting him with some of the obligations made by Bush.

Please list for us the items that you claim Obama spent $ 4 trillion on?
 
Redress said:
And again, irrelevant comparisons are irrelevant. It is not what the average pays, but what individuals pay. And you know this. Averages are for the most part meaningless. Here is what Obama actually said, from the AP article:



Notice that he is not talking about averages, he is talking about individuals, and in some cases, he is absolutely correct.
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so how is the moron in chief going to determine what the "middle class" pays and then task individual wealthy people to PAY the SAME Rate

its moronic his plan

and its moronic to believe that people making 50K a year are paying a higher effective income tax rate than someone making billions
 
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the tax bracket for someone making 50K a year is 25%

the tax bracket for someone who makes 50 million is 35% but if ALL of their money is capital gains its 15%

but they pay an effective rate of 15% because that starts very early in their total income

the effective rate on someone making 50K a year (and that assumes no deductions whatsover) is far less than 25%

that is why buffett is dishonest. He is talking about the next marginal dollar rather on non like income because someone making 50K a year in Long Term capital gains is paying a far lower rate and a lower marginal rate
 
TurtleDude said:
so how is the moron in chief going to determine what the "middle class" pays and then task individual wealthy people to PAY the SAME Rate

its moronic his plan

and its moronic to believe that people making 50K a year are paying a higher effective income tax rate than someone making billions
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Again, depends on the individual situation. It is moronic to use averages to decide what is true with individuals(yet the WSJ did so), and it is moronic to claim some one who is technically correct is actually lying.
 
Catawba said:
The Iraq war was a large (and the most wasteful) chunk of our national debt that you like to complain about. At least the money Obama spent was to help our own citizens that are hurting. Also, your 4 trillion figure is inaccurate. You are crediting him with some of the obligations made by Bush.

Please list for us the items that you claim Obama spent $ 4 trillion on?
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I understand your attitude towards the Iraq War as obviously you had family there or some friends for why else would you be so upset over something that happened 8 years ago. Between the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars the cost according to the Treasury was 1.4 trillion over 10 years or 140 billion a year so instead of 14.5 trillion debt without both wars it would be 13.1 trillion. Now of course Afghanistan is the "good" war therefore that has to be added back onto the 13.1 trillion debt so looks to me like your outrage is misguided. By the way I had three family members in Iraq and they believe we did the right thing, but nothing is going to change your mind.

As for the 4 trillion, the 2009, 2010, 2011 deficits total 4 trillion dollars. You can find out by going to the U.S. Treasury site and look at the budgets.
 
Thunder said:
what evidence do you have that Buffett is lying?
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easy, the effective rate on 60K is lower than the 18% or so effective rate Buffett pays.

he also pays 35% on salary income which is higher than the 25% marginal rate she pays on hers and his effective rate on that is close to 35% while hers is much lower
 
TurtleDude said:
the tax bracket for someone making 50K a year is 25%

the tax bracket for someone who makes 50 million is 35% but if ALL of their money is capital gains its 15%

but they pay an effective rate of 15% because that starts very early in their total income

the effective rate on someone making 50K a year (and that assumes no deductions whatsover) is far less than 25%

that is why buffett is dishonest. He is talking about the next marginal dollar rather on non like income because someone making 50K a year in Long Term capital gains is paying a far lower rate and a lower marginal rate
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Why are you claiming Buffett said something he did not. Hint: Buffett was talking, specifically, about effective tax rates, which for people in his office, he claimed was between 33 and 41 %, averaging 36 %.
 
Redress said:
Why are you claiming Buffett said something he did not. Hint: Buffett was talking, specifically, about effective tax rates, which for people in his office, he claimed was between 33 and 41 %, averaging 36 %.
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uh that is impossible to have effective income tax rates for someone making 60K a year given the marginal rate for such a person is only 25%

since the top marginal rate is 35% he is lying unless he is counting stuff that has no relevance to a federal system-ie the various taxes from the states. and tell me how is the IRS going to have time to police incorporating everyone's individual sales taxes, property taxes gasoline taxes

this is the crap we get when libs spew nonsense about fairness based on a real motivation of pandering and class warfare
 
TurtleDude said:
uh that is impossible to have effective income tax rates for someone making 60K a year given the marginal rate for such a person is only 25%

since the top marginal rate is 35% he is lying unless he is counting stuff that has no relevance to a federal system-ie the various taxes from the states. and tell me how is the IRS going to have time to police incorporating everyone's individual sales taxes, property taxes gasoline taxes

this is the crap we get when libs spew nonsense about fairness based on a real motivation of pandering and class warfare
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Obviously Warren Buffet's concept of tax is not "federal income tax" alone. I'll bet he's even clever enough to figure out that an employee pays both the employee and employer portion of FICA. I don't know if he counted sales tax and state taxes or not. However, counting only federal income taxes (including FICA) he will pay a lower tax rate than his secretary. That's something that is within the federal government's power.
 
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vvx said:
Obviously Warren Buffet's concept of tax is not "federal income tax" alone. I'll bet he's even clever enough to figure out that an employee pays both the employee and employer portion of FICA.
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again note the impossibility of his dream of pandering.
 
TurtleDude said:
uh that is impossible to have effective income tax rates for someone making 60K a year given the marginal rate for such a person is only 25%

since the top marginal rate is 35% he is lying unless he is counting stuff that has no relevance to a federal system-ie the various taxes from the states. and tell me how is the IRS going to have time to police incorporating everyone's individual sales taxes, property taxes gasoline taxes

this is the crap we get when libs spew nonsense about fairness based on a real motivation of pandering and class warfare
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He did not say 60k. Here, before you discuss this more, why don't you read what he said: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html?_r=1

This will save you alot of grief and give you a clue as to what you are arguing against.
 
TurtleDude said:
uh that is impossible to have effective income tax rates for someone making 60K a year given the marginal rate for such a person is only 25%

since the top marginal rate is 35% he is lying unless he is counting stuff that has no relevance to a federal system-ie the various taxes from the states. and tell me how is the IRS going to have time to police incorporating everyone's individual sales taxes, property taxes gasoline taxes

this is the crap we get when libs spew nonsense about fairness based on a real motivation of pandering and class warfare
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Obama has created this as an emotional campaign issue and it is based upon distortions and lies. What he is talking about are the very few that are making big bucks all on investments thus paying 15%. the amount of money that will be collected by the Treasury from those individuals at a higher tax rate is a drop in the bucket but Obama isn't selling it this way at all insinuating that it is a much bigger number and that all Millionaires are in that classification.

Why anyone believes this ass is beyond me.
 
TurtleDude said:
..this is the crap we get when libs spew nonsense about fairness based on a real motivation of pandering and class warfare
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and yet, you seem to pay no mind when the Cons pander to the whiny wealthy, as they look with dire dread at the possibility of having their FIT rate increased by 3%.

;)
 
Conservative said:
Obama has created this as an emotional campaign issue and it is based upon distortions and lies. What he is talking about are the very few that are making big bucks all on investments thus paying 15%. the amount of money that will be collected by the Treasury from those individuals at a higher tax rate is a drop in the bucket but Obama isn't selling it this way at all insinuating that it is a much bigger number and that all Millionaires are in that classification.

Why anyone believes this ass is beyond me.
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Actually that is exactly how Obama is selling it. Those who are making top dollar but paying a lower effective rate than the middle class. Your spin on his words is not surprisingly totally inaccurate.
 
TurtleDude said:
Uh he said his secretary which was reported as earning 60K in several news reports I read and basing income tax rates on what people pay in other taxes is moronic
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Then you can quote and link them for me no problem. Thank you in advance.
 
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