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White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

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Snevert said:
Are you aware of the massive deficit the US government has? It's both a spending problem AND a revenue problem. We spend too much and take in too little. If we're going to be serious about getting rid of our deficit we need a revenue increase ALONG with the spending cuts.
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and are you aware that one party wins votes by promising more spending? the dems have to get tax increases to convince the weak minded that the spending the dems use to buy votes will be "paid for" by taxes on the rich. that is a scam and we all know it

why not demand severe and deep cuts FIRST. I don't trust the government-especially ones run by the pimps who want to spend more and more and more-to cut anything and a tax hike will only be used to justify MORE spending

and why not call for EVERYONE to be taxed more?
 
Thunder said:
And I bet you can afford to pay just a wee bit more, am I right? Paying a little more in taxes won't keep you from buying food or new toys, now would it?
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Why should he pay a wee bit more? Who are you to demand that somebody who earns money (and likely paid 10x more in taxes than you did) give up their money so you can sit around and continue to not contribute to our society?
 
Thunder said:
its very simple: the more money you make, the more you can afford to pay in taxes, therefore the more you should pay in taxes.

its common sense. its logical. its rational. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand it.
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sorry, many of us reject that marxist nonsense of from each according to their ability

why should I pay more just because I can? what do I get extra in return
 
Thunder said:
And I bet you can afford to pay just a wee bit more, am I right? Paying a little more in taxes won't keep you from buying food or new toys, now would it?
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I have no duty to pay more when others don't even pay their share
 
AdamT said:
One, we aren't in a recession, and two, he tried to raise the top rate last year but buckled to Republican demands.

Why is he doing it? Maybe it's that deficit you keep mentioning?
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Technically you’re right, we are not in a negative growth period which is a recession. We are however in a period of stagnation and many say we are about to go into a double dip recession, an even worse time to raise taxes.
 
TurtleDude said:
I have no duty to pay more when others don't even pay their share
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I don't mean to troll, I'm seriously asking this question.

Why is it called class warfare when a Liberal says to raise taxes on the rich, but not when you say to raise them on the poor?
 
TurtleDude said:
and are you aware that one party wins votes by promising more spending? the dems have to get tax increases to convince the weak minded that the spending the dems use to buy votes will be "paid for" by taxes on the rich. that is a scam and we all know it
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How does the Kool-Aid taste?

why not demand severe and deep cuts FIRST. I don't trust the government-especially ones run by the pimps who want to spend more and more and more-to cut anything and a tax hike will only be used to justify MORE spending
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Both Democrats and Republicans are to blame. I never saw a Republican who cried wolf when Bush pushed policies that weren't paid for (energy bill, prescription drug bill, Iraq invasion). A tax hike right now is only justified to reduce the deficit even further than what spending cuts can do.

and why not call for EVERYONE to be taxed more?
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The one thing I agree with you, but more so in taking away tax breaks rather than hiking tax rates.
 
TurtleDude said:
they do, the top one percent pay the highest effective rate and many in the middle class don't pay any income tax

Like many you are ignorant of the fact that the richest taxpayers PAY THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE RATES ON LIKE INCOME
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You're playing word games. The richest make most of their income with capital gains.
 
Honestly, I can't believe some people are actually defending millionaires against just a little tax increase.

They can afford it. They won't go hungry. They won't have to move in with mom.

There is no logical, rational, nor common-sense reason to oppose a small tax-increase on the wealthy.
 
Thunder said:
duty or no duty, you still could afford it. am I right?
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NO i cannot. I have other things to spend the money on

You could afford more taxes too. You don't need a computer. you should sell it and pay the receipts to the government
 
TurtleDude said:
I find it rather disingenuous that some claim that the government should not "pick" winners or losers by having different tax treatment of different sources of income yet they oppose a flat tax on all income or a consumption tax-both of which would prevent the government engaging in class warfare or pitting one group against another.
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As stated before; a flat tax creates deadweight loss via the externalities associated with those on the lower income quartile. For example a 15% tax on $50,000 is $7,500. However, if a family has a real cost of living of say $30,000, discretionary income less taxes is $20,000. Such a tax would eat up about 37.5% of discretionary income.

Now consider a 15% tax on $150,000 with a cost of living of $90,000. Discretionary income less taxes is $60,000, and the tax eats up the same 37.5% of discretionary income.

The difference between the two scenarios? The standard of living is 3x's greater for the higher income example. Flat taxation will only exacerbate wealth inequality and standard of living inequality.

What is obvious is many people try to justify higher rates on dividend or Capital gains income PURELY because a few thousand people have lower taxes than some highly salaried individuals because those few thousand have only investment income and that somehow upsets the class warriors who are mad that a billionaire only paid 18% of his billion dollar income while someone making 200K a year might have paid 20%. (Buffet's secretary would have to be making over 150K for him to come close to being honest and he still paid 35% rate on his 100K salary)

They ignore that the billionaire paid more actual dollars than 70+ million americans combined but they ignore the fact that 47% of Americans have exactly the same rights as a billionaire but pay less income taxes COMBINED than that one billionaire.

They are indignant over "unequal tax rates" except when it allows people to have full citizenship rights without paying the dues
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Nope. See the example above.
 
Thunder said:
Honestly, I can't believe some people are actually defending millionaires against just a little tax increase.

They can afford it. They won't go hungry. They won't have to move in with mom.

There is no logical, rational, nor common-sense reason to oppose a small tax-increase on the wealthy.
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where does this parasitic belief system stop? You will continue to claim that in any tax increase

why cannot everyone else pay more taxes too?
 
Goldenboy219 said:
As stated before; a flat tax creates deadweight loss via the externalities associated with those on the lower income quartile. For example a 15% tax on $50,000 is $7,500. However, if a family has a real cost of living of say $30,000, discretionary income less taxes is $20,000. Such a tax would eat up about 37.5% of discretionary income.

Now consider a 15% tax on $150,000 with a cost of living of $90,000. Discretionary income less taxes is $60,000, and the tax eats up the same 37.5% of discretionary income.

The difference between the two scenarios? The standard of living is 3x's greater for the higher income example. Flat taxation will only exacerbate wealth inequality and standard of living inequality.



Nope. See the example above.
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you miss my point. progressive income taxes create the problems we have now. a flat tax would prevent many of the voters demanding more government

you want more government

I do not
 
Thunder said:
its very simple: the more money you make, the more you can afford to pay in taxes, therefore the more you should pay in taxes.

its common sense. its logical. its rational. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand it.
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You are right, it is very simple yet what you feel is common sense is really just the stench leftover by how badly the corpse of common sense has been mutilated by our poorly educated society. Let's just say that I make 1 Million Dollars a year, and we will take your actual salary (estimated based on your level of education) of $20,000 a year. If I were taxed at 17%, I would have paid $170,000 in income taxes. You, making less money than me would have paid only $3400 at the same percentage. Since you want to get hung up on percentages, that would mean that you only paid 2% of the taxes that I did. Why do you feel somebody should have to pay more to use the same things that you do just because they make more money? Sure "they can", but that does not justify your reasons for them actually doing so now does it? Target can't check somebody's bank account first and then decide how much they are going to charge them for their groceries, are they?
 
TurtleDude said:
obumble's scheme is good politics, lousy economics and he wants to tax the rich poor so he can claim it will pay for him buying more votes with more idiotic spending
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Incorrect. The national debt is greater than annual output; taxing lower income households @ a higher rate does nothing to solve this problem.
 
TurtleDude said:
where does this parasitic belief system stop? You will continue to claim that in any tax increase

why cannot everyone else pay more taxes too?
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the more money you make, the more you can afford to pay in taxes. its simple, its logical, its not rocket science.

and some people can even afford to pay just a little more in taxes without it affecting their spending even one single bit.
 
TurtleDude said:
you miss my point. progressive income taxes create the problems we have now. a flat tax would prevent many of the voters demanding more government

you want more government

I do not
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You state this with full ignorance of our current financial and economic situation. If the government does not spend when the private sector is simply unwilling, Greater Depression here we come.

Low income as a % of total output (on a relative basis) has created the problem we have now.
 
TurtleDude said:
you miss my point. progressive income taxes create the problems we have now. a flat tax would prevent many of the voters demanding more government

you want more government

I do not
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So you just want to do the exact same thing by manipulating taxes to support your own political views? I don't think you spent enough time thinking about your position on this issue.
 
from Turtle

They are indignant over "unequal tax rates" except when it allows people to have full citizenship rights without paying the dues
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Could you please quote the Article and Section of the US Constitution where this DUES paying is outlined in full?
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Incorrect. The national debt is greater than annual output; taxing lower income households @ a higher rate does nothing to solve this problem.
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raising FIT on the middle-class and lower income households would seriously affect their spending levels.

the rich? not so much..if any at all.
 
TurtleDude said:
utter hypocrisy. You love the government playing god and punishing the successful with higher rates. If you really want even treatment there should be a flat rate on all income and all earners

I can live with that-how about you?
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Why shouldn't rich pay for their foolhearty wars like Iraq?
 
Snevert said:
Are you aware of the massive deficit the US government has? It's both a spending problem AND a revenue problem. We spend too much and take in too little. If we're going to be serious about getting rid of our deficit we need a revenue increase ALONG with the spending cuts.
Click to expand...

Yes, sure do and I also know that politicians created that debt and thus have no intention of paying it off so giving them more money is like give heroin to an addict. Why do you believe more revenue will be used to pay down the debt and where is your proof that higher taxes only on the rich will generate more income?

What is the fair share Obama is talking about and how can someone else's fair share be zero?
 
Goldenboy219 said:
You state this with full ignorance of our current financial and economic situation. If the government does not spend when the private sector is simply unwilling, Greater Depression here we come.
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If the private sector is not earning money for the government to tax, then where does the money come from?
 
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