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White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

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Snevert said:
It's not applying tax breaks/credits/loopholes. Yeah, 39.6% is the technical rate but after all breaks and such he actually only pays 15%.
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That's not entirely accurate. The reason Buffet on pays 15% is because he doesn't earn a salary from Berkshire Hathaway as the CEO. His "pay" or compensation comes from stock options. The current capital gains tax is 15%. That's why Buffet's tax rate is what it is and is certainly not the norm in the corporate world. Most CEOs get a salary and are taxed at the applicable income rate.

Funny thing too, in 2010, Berkshire Hathaway paid 5.6 billion at state of 29%.

Obama and Buffet are banking on the public to be too stupid to know the difference.
 
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Fishstyx said:
That's not entirely accurate. The reason Buffet on pays 15% is because he doesn't earn a salary from Berkshire Hathaway as the CEO. His "pay" or compensation comes from stock options. The current capital gains tax is 15%. That's why Buffet's tax rate is what it is and is certainly not the norm in the corporate world. Most CEOs get a salary and are taxed at the applicable income rate.

Funny thing too, in 2010, Berkshire Hathaway paid 5.6 billion at state of 29%.

Obama and Buffet are banking on the public to be too stupid to know the difference.
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Most very wealthy people have substantial capital gains income. Hedge fund managers are among the wealthiest people in the country and even their regular income is taxed at 15% due to a loophole that classifies their income as carried interest.
 
AdamT said:
Most very wealthy people have substantial capital gains income. Hedge fund managers are among the wealthiest people in the country and even their regular income is taxed at 15% due to a loophole that classifies their income as carried interest.
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Capital gains income is taxed at 15%, the amount one makes off it isn't really relevant. If someone makes "significant," well good for them. Frankly, I don't have much beef with closing the hedge fund manager loophole but its really not a loophole. They make their incomes based on investments, not salary. More or less, they're just another investor in the fund. Instead of money, they invest by managing it. Problem with changing this rate, its not only fund and equity firms that take the knock. There are other sectors that will as well and some of these will have employment impacts.
 
Fishstyx said:
Capital gains income is taxed at 15%, the amount one makes off it isn't really relevant. If someone makes "significant," well good for them. Frankly, I don't have much beef with closing the hedge fund manager loophole but its really not a loophole. They make their incomes based on investments, not salary. More or less, they're just another investor in the fund. Instead of money, they invest by managing it. Problem with changing this rate, its not only fund and equity firms that take the knock. There are other sectors that will as well and some of these will have employment impacts.
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It isn't really investment income as they aren't investing their own money. It's a bonus for professional services. And they certainly don't need the tax break. The top hedge managers make more in an hour than most middle class families will make in a lifetime.
 
AdamT said:
It isn't really investment income as they aren't investing their own money. It's a bonus for professional services. And they certainly don't need the tax break. The top hedge managers make more in an hour than most middle class families will make in a lifetime.
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Why do they make that much? Because they're good at what they do. Anyway, I could truly give a rats ass about hedge fund managers. My beef with eliminating this loophole is that it will also impact others sectors that will have a negative effect on job growth. Real estate, venture capitalists and energy investment.

If they want to solely target hedge fund managers, go for it.
 
Fishstyx said:
Why do they make that much? Because they're good at what they do. Anyway, I could truly give a rats ass about hedge fund managers. My beef with eliminating this loophole is that it will also impact others sectors that will have a negative effect on job growth. Real estate, venture capitalists and energy investment.

If they want to solely target hedge fund managers, go for it.
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They aren't necessarily good at what they do. I know one hedge fund manager who has turned in absolutely crappy results for 10 years and he still makes seven figures a year. In fact there isn't much support for the proposition that any of these guys are particularly brilliant.
 
Obama has said on record two times that raising taxes during a recession would harm the economy and he wouldn’t do so. Why has he decided to do so now? He either wants to harm the economy which I doubt or he wants to shore up his base with this. Why shore up his base and alienate independents when his base will vote for him in 12 no matter what you might ask. My answer is this isn’t about the election; this is about the breaking white house scandals. Obamas going to need a strong steady wall between him and impeachment if these scandals go where I and apparently he thinks they are going. What other reason can there be to destroy the economy and alienate independents which he desperately needs to be reelected?
 
We have 1 percent of the population earn 19 percent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax, is that fair?
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Yes, it is fair in the sense that the top 1% owns about 33% of the country's wealth. Or you could put it another way: someone making $80k might be paying a lower overall rate, but he's probably paying a much, much higher percentage of his disposable income.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Obama has said on record two times that raising taxes during a recession would harm the economy and he wouldn’t do so. Why has he decided to do so now? He either wants to harm the economy which I doubt or he wants to shore up his base with this. Why shore up his base and alienate independents when his base will vote for him in 12 no matter what you might ask. My answer is this isn’t about the election; this is about the breaking white house scandals. Obamas going to need a strong steady wall between him and impeachment if these scandals go where I and apparently he thinks they are going. What other reason can there be to destroy the economy and alienate independents which he desperately needs to be reelected?
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One, we aren't in a recession, and two, he tried to raise the top rate last year but buckled to Republican demands.

Why is he doing it? Maybe it's that deficit you keep mentioning?
 
Snevert said:
It's not applying tax breaks/credits/loopholes. Yeah, 39.6% is the technical rate but after all breaks and such he actually only pays 15%.
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Its because different types of income are taxed differently and Buffett has structured his compensation to avoid as much tax as possible so he can kiss the ass of Obama while ingratiating himself to the envious by whining that his secretary pays a higher Rate on her earned income than he does on his unearned income.

The dishonest SOB doesn't explain that on his artificially low SALARY INCOME HE PAYS A HIGHER RATE than his secretary and he pays thousands times more in actual dollars.
 
Conservative said:
Why is it that liberals and progressives(all the same) always worry about how much money is going to the Federal Govt. instead of focusing on how the govt. spends that money?
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that doesn't appeal to class envy nor can dems pander to the net tax consumers by such talk
 
AdamT said:
Yes, it is fair in the sense that the top 1% owns about 33% of the country's wealth. Or you could put it another way: someone making $80k might be paying a lower overall rate, but he's probably paying a much, much higher percentage of his disposable income.
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so you are confusing income with wealth

go figure
 
Conservative said:
Why is it that liberals and progressives(all the same) always worry about how much money is going to the Federal Govt. instead of focusing on how the govt. spends that money?
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Why is it that most conservatives are against any tax hike whatsoever, forgetting that without revenues you can't pay for anything. Have you ever balanced a budget or tried to raise more money to pay off a debt? I worry because if they can't raise revenues because of some dopes in congress they will go bankrupt. A bankrupt American government is, like, really bad. Duh.
 
AdamT said:
One, we aren't in a recession, and two, he tried to raise the top rate last year but buckled to Republican demands.

Why is he doing it? Maybe it's that deficit you keep mentioning?
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Or maybe it is just cheap political posturing that has polled well.
 
TurtleDude said:
this board crawls with tax hikers who constantly whine that the top one percent (or the rich) don't pay their fair share even though the top few percent are the ONLY Group that pay MORE Of the federal income tax burden share than their share of the national income. to them fair share is whatever is needed to buy the votes of the envious who want more handouts without paying for it
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Why shouldn't the rich pay the FIT at the same rate as the middle class does?
 
pbrauer said:
Why shouldn't the rich pay the FIT at the same rate as the middle class does?
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because the whiny wealthy deserve to be treated special.

i mean honestly, they didn't get rich so that they would be treated like everyone else, right?

;)
 
AdamT said:
Or maybe we really do need to lower deficits.
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'

Where is your assurance that any additional income, if any, will be applied to the deficits? Where are those savings that Obama claims he will create. Typical Obama lies and you buy it.
 
AdamT said:
two, he tried to raise the top rate last year but buckled to Republican demands.
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He didn't only try to raise the top rate. He tried to raise it on everyone making $200k or more. This hardly billionare hedge fund managers that jet set around the globe in private jets. This is considered upper middle class in some cities in this country.
 
Snevert said:
Why is it that most conservatives are against any tax hike whatsoever, forgetting that without revenues you can't pay for anything. Have you ever balanced a budget or tried to raise more money to pay off a debt? I worry because if they can't raise revenues because of some dopes in congress they will go bankrupt. A bankrupt American government is, like, really bad. Duh.
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I think it's because they would like to turn our county into a plutocracy.
 
pbrauer said:
Why shouldn't the rich pay the FIT at the same rate as the middle class does?
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Why are rates so important to you and not the amount paid? Do you think it is right to complain about what the rich pay and not about so many not paying any FIT?
 
pbrauer said:
I think it's because they would like to turn our county into a plutocracy.
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I don't think it's that far, I just think that most of them are heavily misguided and uneducated.
 
Conservative said:
Why are rates so important to you and not the amount paid? Do you think it is right to complain about what the rich pay and not about so many not paying any FIT?
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the more money you make, the higher a percentage of your income you should pay in taxes. why?

because the more money you make, the more you can afford to pay in taxes.

its simple logic. its common sense.
 
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