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White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

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Conservative said:
You apparently live quite comfortably today which obviously in your opinion makes you much smarter than others. You live on two pensions and your 401K which was generated by working at those evil corporations that you now claim are the problem. Millions of other Americans are just like you yet millions don't have the disdain you have, the question is why? Please don't tell me you give a damn about the poor or anyone else for if you did you would do something about it by truly helping those in need. I do that locally and always will. You on the other hand whine and complain about the problem on a national scale and support those that are making the problems worse. Name for me one liberal social program that cost what it was supposed to cost, did what it was supposed to do, solved a problem, and then went a way? True liberal compassion is not keeping people dependent but by actually creating results that mean those dependent are no long on those liberal social programs.
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You are a great talking head you stick to your talking points so well I wonder if maybe you did not take talking point classes? Do they have talking point classes?

Please don't be offended but I think maybe some of the protestors might be upset by some thing called speculation, Did you know that people of means can buy oil, never touch it,smell it,store it or do any thing more then hold on to it until they create an artifical shortage and then sell it at a huge profit? That profit causes the price of oil to increase as much as 50% doesn't that suck?

I don't claim that every rich person steals by speculating but it makes you wonder if they were some how not involved in stealing the heat from someone's grandma's house or the food from some poor kid's table. Any how you are not involved in that type of thievery are you? If I was I would be more then happy to help those less fortunate then myself, I mean I could have been without being remotely aware of it. Just in case I made a donation to OWS

Now back to the topic at hand your right I worked hard for years some times in fact most times 60 to 80 hours a week just like my dad and his father did and just like a lot of other Americans including liberals, libertarians, independents and even some conservatives. When I entered the work force finding a job was easy and then what I made of that job was up to me, no one else.

Here is the difference between us You want to call everyone and anyone who can not find employment a bum, a sloth, a lazy tit sucking liberal, why? Because it suits your agenda. If I am wrong show me a source that says unemployed liberals want to be unemployed. You were truely a HR guy are you sure?
 
Here's my problem. On this, and all the other political debate groups out there, all I here about are republicans this, democrats that, so on and so forth. I really, and truly, do not care if someone has a D or R by their name. As long as a good job is being done. Now, here we have so called conservatives decrying the awful conditions we live in after a few years of Obama, as if to say, look at the crappy job HE'S done! Meanwhile, the republican party is partly, some more than others, responsible for some of the problems we face today. They have been content to sit back and let this country go to hell in a hand bucket, indeed, EAGER to help this come about, just so they can have a better position come election time. These are NOT people I will ever vote for, and shame on any so called american who would.

I'll tell you this now, the ENDS do NOT justify the MEANS.

And on THAT note, I can't in good conscience vote democrat, either, unless by some miracle, a good man/woman steps forth from that cesspool of liars. But I doubt this will happen, because the very mantra of the democratic party these days is anathema to the concept of the ends not justifying the means. You know what happens when you steal a man who has plenty in order to ensure that a man who has nothing can survive? You become a thief. And that is it's own brand of lie.

I'll end this little rant with a final thought. I would not trust ANY person who claims to have a plan, or some means, to help the economy and restore employment to those who lost it, unless these people were willing to SHARE that plan right from the get go, without a lot of convoluted politic speak to make sure they never actually have to stand behind something. If they really had a plan, and don't want to unveil it till they get the office, what kind of person is that? Not one I'd trust. We rail about politics, but in reality, what we should be outraged over, is character, and the extreme lack of it that we have in our so called leaders.
 
EarlzP said:
No what is pathetic is allowing speculators to get rich by driving up the prices on life essential needs.



Are you saying that out of work republicans, independents, libertarians, ect are more likely to steal then the rich are? Do you really believe the BS you are trying to sell. Do you have a book of talking points or do you come up with this BS all by yourself

PS: I don't care if you and Conservative light your butts with 100.00 dollar bills but did you steal from the poor and elderly of our country by speculating on life essential products,
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its fun watching extreme fringe elements use pet terms such as "speculating" etc.

the concepts of markets, supply and demand etc seem to be ideas you cannot comprehend.
 
vvx said:
I'll accept this argument only once we have a 100% inheritance tax. Until then, telling the child born into poverty that they just need to stop being lazy or work harder while they look at the children of billionaires who'll never have to work in their lives is just stupid. Either everyone needs to not be lazy / work hard, or that isn't a requirement to have wealth.
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100% inheritance tax would justify assassination IMHO.

Anyone who thinks everything a person earns should be confiscated by the state is a thief and ought to be treated as such

I have no duty to fund your existence. I have no duty to have what I earned given to you. Your life provides me with no value so I should not have to pay anything for you to exist
 
Conservative said:
Obama economic results in 2011, .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011, 25+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011, 4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years, and a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating. Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.67. 38-41% JAR and well over 55-60% disapproval ratings.

Keep looking backwards, keep telling half the story, keep ignoring civics and you will never see what is happening TODAY
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How come you run away every time reality is shoved in your face? Like this time ... you made the fallacious claim that Liberals don't want job creation ... I proved that comment belongs in the trash bin by showing you how every Democrat president going back the last 60 years had job growth with the exception of Jimmy Carter, where job growth was flat as the unemployment rate when he left office was the same when he started. By comparison, the unemployment rate increased for every single term for every single Republican president with the lone exception of Reagan.

My post pretty much made your post a laughing stock.

That seems to have led you to retreat to your knee-jerk patent response of the current economic conditions, which are mostly due to the Great Bush Recession anyway.
 
Conservative said:
Sorry, but I lived and worked during both and don't have any faith in what economists say but instead what the real people are feeling. When people had to pay 17.5% for a home mortage and had double digit inflation they were throwing the keys at the bankers.
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Your personal feelings on the subject do not hold constant for all people.

Prior to 1982, banks were not allowed to offer variable rate mortgages and therefore the "17.5% for a home mortgage" comment is useless. People who had 17.5% mortgage rates TOOK them out; meaning a considerable portion of these new homeowners did pay them back.

Financially driven downturns are by far the most painful.
 
TurtleDude said:
its fun watching extreme fringe elements use pet terms such as "speculating" etc.

the concepts of markets, supply and demand etc seem to be ideas you cannot comprehend.
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Picky picky picky cherry picky picken, please respond to my question

Are you saying that out of work republicans, independents, libertarians, ect are more likely to steal then the rich are? Do you really believe the BS you are trying to sell. Do you have a book of talking points or do you come up with this BS all by yourself
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I can comprehend much more then you want me to so tell me instead of running away from the question

Did you know that people of means can buy oil, never touch it,smell it,store it or do any thing more then hold on to it until they create an artifical shortage and then sell it at a huge profit? That profit causes the price of oil to increase as much as 50% doesn't that suck?

Now don't take it personal because I don't claim that every rich person steals by speculating but it makes you wonder if they were some how not involved in stealing the heat from someone's grandma's house or the food from some poor kid's table. Any how you are not involved in that type of thievery are you? If I was I would be more then happy to help those less fortunate then myself, I mean I could have been without being remotely aware of it. Just in case I made a donation to OWS
 
Here is the difference between us You want to call everyone and anyone who can not find employment a bum, a sloth, a lazy tit sucking liberal, why? Because it suits your agenda. If I am wrong show me a source that says unemployed liberals want to be unemployed. You were truely a HR guy are you sure?
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How Ironic, you seem to believe that there are more speculators that somehow did something illegal thus causing more of a problem than actually exists. Anyone that cannot find a job in 1 year or more is indeed a bum in my book. Any job would do at this point vs getting taxpayer funded subsidies. In running a business my staff would never hire anyone with a one year gap in their resume especially when there are pages and pages of jobs available maybe not THE job but A job that shows initiative and a strong desire not to milk the system.

As for being a HR guy, anyone responsible for a business has HR responsibiilities. I hired and fired a lot of people but also promoted a lot of people as well. I was fully responsible for the business with HR as a responsibility anyone in management has. You ought to know that but HR was one of many responsibilities I had.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
How come you run away every time reality is shoved in your face? Like this time ... you made the fallacious claim that Liberals don't want job creation ... I proved that comment belongs in the trash bin by showing you how every Democrat president going back the last 60 years had job growth with the exception of Jimmy Carter, where job growth was flat as the unemployment rate when he left office was the same when he started. By comparison, the unemployment rate increased for every single term for every single Republican president with the lone exception of Reagan.

My post pretty much made your post a laughing stock.

That seems to have led you to retreat to your knee-jerk patent response of the current economic conditions, which are mostly due to the Great Bush Recession anyway.
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Any time you post irrelevant data out of context I am going to post actual data IN context of what is going on today. Not one thing you have posted has anything to do with the problems we have today and the fact that "your" President doesn't have a clue how to manage a private sector economy or the ability to hire the right people to do it. Obama is someone who delegates responsibility and no leader can ever do that. The responsibility for the economy today are here and these are the results 2 1/2 years after taking office.

Obama economic results in 2011, .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011, 25+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011, 4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years, and a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating. Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.67. 38-41% JAR and well over 55-60% disapproval ratings.

Keep looking backwards, keep telling half the story, keep ignoring civics and you will never see what is happening TODAY
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Goldenboy219 said:
Your personal feelings on the subject do not hold constant for all people.

Prior to 1982, banks were not allowed to offer variable rate mortgages and therefore the "17.5% for a home mortgage" comment is useless. People who had 17.5% mortgage rates TOOK them out; meaning a considerable portion of these new homeowners did pay them back.

Financially driven downturns are by far the most painful.
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My personal feelings have nothing to do with it, the facts matter and how people have been affected by this recession or were affected by the 81-82 recession. That is measured by the misery index which are rising today vs. when Obama took office and declined significantly with Reagan Economic policy. You see, this is about people not the macro economics which apparently you cannot think about.

Sorry but painful today is Barack Obama in office 2 1/2 years after taking office and doing nothing to provide incentive to the private sector to grow jobs. His JAR indicates how people actually feel about Obama and that JAR is driven by the misery index plus high unemployment
 
Conservative said:
Any time you post irrelevant data out of context I am going to post actual data IN context of what is going on today. Not one thing you have posted has anything to do with the problems we have today and the fact that "your" President doesn't have a clue how to manage a private sector economy or the ability to hire the right people to do it. Obama is someone who delegates responsibility and no leader can ever do that. The responsibility for the economy today are here and these are the results 2 1/2 years after taking office.
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Did you say this?
Obama is someone who delegates responsibility and no leader can ever do that
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Was that you? I don't know of one good leader who does not delegate responsibility, Your life must have been difficult not being able to trust anyone to get a job done,how did you sleep at night?

It would really be interesting to see you source data related to your claims, sorry it just seems like you run a good portion of the time or you just ignore any thing you can not contest. Do you remeber the conversation we had about how to incentize the unemployed do you remember taking it out of context? Do you remember the conversation we had about speculators and how you never answered when I asked you if you were involved in speculating?

So I will ask you again and Please don't be offended but I think maybe some of the protestors might be upset by some thing called speculation, Did you know that people of means can buy oil, never touch it,smell it,store it or do any thing more then hold on to it until they create an artifical shortage and then sell it at a huge profit? That profit causes the price of oil to increase as much as 50% doesn't that suck?

I don't claim that every rich person steals by speculating but it makes you wonder if they were some how not involved in stealing the heat from someone's grandma's house or the food from some poor kid's table. Any how you are not involved in that type of
thievery are you? If I was I would be more then happy to help those less fortunate then myself, I mean I could have been without being remotely aware of it. Just in case I made a donation to OWS
 
EarlzP said:
Did you say this? Was that you? I don't know of one good leader who does not delegate responsibility, Your life must have been difficult not being able to trust anyone to get a job done,how did you sleep at night?

It would really be interesting to see you source data related to your claims, sorry it just seems like you run a good portion of the time or you just ignore any thing you can not contest. Do you remeber the conversation we had about how to incentize the unemployed do you remember taking it out of context? Do you remember the conversation we had about speculators and how you never answered when I asked you if you were involved in speculating?

So I will ask you again and Please don't be offended but I think maybe some of the protestors might be upset by some thing called speculation, Did you know that people of means can buy oil, never touch it,smell it,store it or do any thing more then hold on to it until they create an artifical shortage and then sell it at a huge profit? That profit causes the price of oil to increase as much as 50% doesn't that suck?

I don't claim that every rich person steals by speculating but it makes you wonder if they were some how not involved in stealing the heat from someone's grandma's house or the food from some poor kid's table. Any how you are not involved in that type of
thievery are you? If I was I would be more then happy to help those less fortunate then myself, I mean I could have been without being remotely aware of it. Just in case I made a donation to OWS
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Then you don't have a clue, a leader can delegate AUTHORITY not NEVER RESPONSIBILITY. Take Management 101. What did you do for your chemical company, obviously never managing anything. Authority is given based upon trust and if that trust is violated then it is the responsibility of the manager. Both should lose their jobs if that violation led to excessive financial losses or legal problems.

Your outrage over speculators is misguided as you ignore the biggest problem facing this country, liberals keeping people dependent and buying votes with their actions.

Don't know about you, but I didn't see one employer walking through the protestors passing out applications and setting up interviews.

You have a very misguided view of the problem today, it is a local problem not a national problem and it is better handled at the state and local level. You continue to buy the rhetoric of liberals who continue to brainwash you and far too many others. When are you going to hold liberals accountable for the very poor results over TRILLIONS of spending?
 
Conservative said:
Any time you post irrelevant data out of context I am going to post actual data IN context of what is going on today. Not one thing you have posted has anything to do with the problems we have today and...
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Whoaaaa there, Hondo. You posted how Liberals don't want to see jobs created. That's a comment which extends far beyond today's economic conditions. I responded with data that could not have been more in context to your BS claim. Naturally, you could neither defend your position nor refute mine, so you do what you always do -- which is to run away from the argument you made. It's pathetic how you keep talking about the past, but then cry when others reduce your BS claims to a pile of rubble.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Whoaaaa there, Hondo. You posted how Liberals don't want to see jobs created. That's a comment which extends far beyond today's economic conditions. I responded with data that could not have been more in context to your BS claim. Naturally, you could neither defend your position nor refute mine, so you do what you always do -- which is to run away from the argument you made. It's pathetic how you keep talking about the past, but then cry when others reduce your BS claims to a pile of rubble.
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This indicates that Obama isn't interested in creating jobs and are the results today. Most of what you posted in the past is out of context but it does give you the ability to divert from the dismal performance of this President. How long are you going to give him a pass. Seems that you are probably in that 38% still supporting Obama. Seems those are the only ones interested in your percentage change argument.

Obama economic results in 2011, .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011, 25+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011, 4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years, and a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating. Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.67. 38-41% JAR and well over 55-60% disapproval ratings.

Keep looking backwards, keep telling half the story, keep ignoring civics and you will never see what is happening TODAY
 
winston53660 said:
But government can't create jobs, correct?
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Correct, Govt. however creates the incentive for the private sector to create jobs and Obama has done everything possible to destroy the private sector unless you beleive demonization of business is the way to motivate the private sector?
 
Conservative said:
This indicates that Obama isn't interested in creating jobs and are the results today.
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Let me remind you of what you said ...


"You think liberals want job creation? My are you naive! If people had jobs they wouldn't need liberalism and the dependence that creates." ~ Conservative​


... at what point in U.S. history do you believe Liberals became against job creation?
 
Conservative said:
Correct, Govt. however creates the incentive for the private sector to create jobs and Obama has done everything possible to destroy the private sector unless you beleive demonization of business is the way to motivate the private sector?
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YOu mean like these businesses that have been recording record profits?
 
winston53660 said:
YOu mean like these businesses that have been recording record profits?
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You do understand corporations exist to make profits not to provide jobs?
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Let me remind you of what you said ...


"You think liberals want job creation? My are you naive! If people had jobs they wouldn't need liberalism and the dependence that creates." ~ Conservative​


... at what point in U.S. history do you believe Liberals became against job creation?
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When they realized that they could keep their jobs by buying votes, about the same time they kicked most of the Conservatives out of the Democrat Party
 
Conservative said:
When they realized that they could keep their jobs by buying votes, about the same time they kicked most of the Conservatives out of the Democrat Party
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Which if it were true, and it's not, would have begun a long time ago; which means my post was completely in context to your BS observation.

Again, I like how you can talk about the past but then you cry when others do too in response to your posts.
 
Conservative said:
Then you don't have a clue, a leader can delegate AUTHORITY not NEVER RESPONSIBILITY. Take Management 101. What did you do for your chemical company, obviously never managing anything. Authority is given based upon trust and if that trust is violated then it is the responsibility of the manager. Both should lose their jobs if that violation led to excessive financial losses or legal problems.
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Word play nothing more nothing less, provide me with one source proving that President Obama ever laid the blame for any thing on his administrative staff, just one.

I started in management at 17, no college not even a HS Diploma.

Your outrage over speculators is misguided as you ignore the biggest problem facing this country, liberals keeping people dependent and buying votes with their actions.
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Your denial about the effects of speculators on the poor and elderly is beyond belief, since you don't deny profiting from speculating on life essential needs I under stand your anger at the OWS demonstrators. Your fear of liberals is very evident, do you want to talk about it? Are their any republicans or libertarians or independents demonstrating if you answer is no, please provide a source. If your answer is yes can you explain why they are there?

Don't know about you, but I didn't see one employer walking through the protestors passing out applications and setting up interviews.
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Are you sure?

You have a very misguided view of the problem today, it is a local problem not a national problem and it is better handled at the state and local level. You continue to buy the rhetoric of liberals who continue to brainwash you and far too many others. When are you going to hold liberals accountable for the very poor results over TRILLIONS of spending?
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Even if you were right I think you may be about 11 years late, let me ask you some thing are there enough liberals in the USA to elect a President? If your answer is no and as you said you believe in taking responsibility for your actions do you think that maybe some of the responsibility may cross party lines? If your answer is yes why do you only malign liberals?
 
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