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White House Tax Plan Would Ask More of Millionaires

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I believe Goldenboy is missing the point, we have 140 million working Americans today that are better off than the working Americans were in 1981-82 because of low inflation and low interest rates.

Bull****! First off, you do not even understand the relationship between asset prices and inflation/disinflation. They didn't have to bail out nearly every western financial institution on the plant in 1982. No, that didn't come about until the S&L crisis (which can be directly attributable to the policy objectives of the Reagan administration). There was a reason why adjustable rate mortgages were prohibited.

See the "Garn–St. Germain Depository Institutions Act 1982".

Unemployed are always going to be worse off regardless of the recession severity although their unemployment compensation is going further today than it did in the 81-82 recession. He is missing that reality.

Do you understand the relationship between unemployment and low/disinflation? If not, you are in no position to make such an argument.
 
So Obama can do anything during his Presidency in terms of policies and never take the blame for their results? Wow, that is a great gig....


j-mac

No.

This administration did nothing to cause our current environment. The extreme rights obsession with Obama is rather pathetic; it is almost like their security blanket. When they are unable to keep up with a discussion, they rant aimlessly about Obama.
 
Bull****! First off, you do not even understand the relationship between asset prices and inflation/disinflation. They didn't have to bail out nearly every western financial institution on the plant in 1982. No, that didn't come about until the S&L crisis (which can be directly attributable to the policy objectives of the Reagan administration). There was a reason why adjustable rate mortgages were prohibited.

See the "Garn–St. Germain Depository Institutions Act 1982".



Do you understand the relationship between unemployment and low/disinflation? If not, you are in no position to make such an argument.

I just love the lack of understanding the educational elite have about human behavior and cost of living. Keep reading your books and keep ignoring reality. Do you understand how the misery index affects people? Were you better off in 1981-82 with high inflation, high interest rates, and rising unemployment than you are today? Your speculation is just that, speculation. Keep ignoring the facts and human behavior. How are the working Americans worse off today than they were in 1981-82? How are you worse off today than then?

Bailouts actually were uncalled for in a private sector economy. The short term pain would have led to a stronger economy today. Obama and liberal micromanagment of the economy is typical and makes things worse as did Bush with the bailout.
 
I don't disagree with you on the level of corruption that exists in the government as it pertains to our elected officials being bought off by special interests in today's climate. However, corporations as such being made up of people, ie; the board, which answers to shareholders that invest in these companies do have interests that they would like to see protected especially in today's Obama world of destructive policy aimed at them.
To be fair, the lobbyists have always had (at least in the last 30 years) special access, and since the corruption cannot be controlled by either the lobbyists or the government as they're symbiotic to each other and the corruption it breeds - I can't see a way for such special access and consideration to continue without the byproduct of the corruption.


What is different say, from a corporation like say Boeing lobbying the reps on capitol hill over regulation that effects their bottom line, and say OOIDA lobbying on behalf of truckers in this country?

j-mac

I would assume the OOIDA is lobbying the Federal government in this case, so there'd be no difference. Both should not have special access. If there is a list of grievances to take to the government, the OOIDA or Boeing can address those to their government representatives and Senators without having special access. By not giving the special access and by not allowing the hiring of former lobbyists within the government, the corruptive elements are for the most part, eliminated. Then we have a much more fair playing field where the OOIDA and Boeing have an equal shot at their wants and needs without palms being greased and favoritism in specific districts, promises of election campaign contributions, etc...
 
What you ignore is the impact on the individuals and with 140 million working Americans they are all better off during this recession than the 81-82 recession due to cost of living.

You are missing the forest for the trees. Were people in better financial shape during that period? Where consumers more or less indebted than they are now? Did Americans witness the value of their homes collapse while still being contractually obligated to make payments on a mortgage that far exceeded the value of their homes in 1982? Did the financial system essentially fail in 1981/1982?

NO! You had people actually taking out 17.5% mortgages! :lamo Must have been tough.
 
Nope, we need more taxpayers not higher taxes and that is something you simply cannot get through your head. Raising taxes does nothing to put people back to work. You just don't have a clue and obviously have never run a business. Cutting spending sends a dollar to the bottomline just like cutting spending will reduce the deficit because the revenue keeps coming in. Amazing lack of knowledge about business that many have here.
Why did the 60's conservatives oppose the JFK/LBJ tax cuts???
 
You are missing the forest for the trees. Were people in better financial shape during that period? Where consumers more or less indebted than they are now? Did Americans witness the value of their homes collapse while still being contractually obligated to make payments on a mortgage that far exceeded the value of their homes in 1982? Did the financial system essentially fail in 1981/1982?

NO! You had people actually taking out 17.5% mortgages! :lamo Must have been tough.

No, I asked you a question were you better off then working than you are today working? is the cost of living higher or lower than it was then? Indebtedness has everything to do with personal behavior whereas cost of living is dictated by economic conditions most outside the control of the individual.

Tell me how the financial condition today has affected you? Doesn't appear that you were old enough in 81-82 to know what was going on then. Let me help you, people were dumping their homes faster then than today and the working Americans were suffering more then than today. That is reality. Very few were buying homes because of the high interest rates so it was tough, a lot tougher then than today when there are lines for the latest IPhone.
 
I just love the lack of understanding the educational elite have about human behavior and cost of living. Keep reading your books and keep ignoring reality. Do you understand how the misery index affects people? Were you better off in 1981-82 with high inflation, high interest rates, and rising unemployment than you are today? Your speculation is just that, speculation. Keep ignoring the facts and human behavior. How are the working Americans worse off today than they were in 1981-82? How are you worse off today than then?

Bailouts actually were uncalled for in a private sector economy. The short term pain would have led to a stronger economy today. Obama and liberal micromanagment of the economy is typical and makes things worse as did Bush with the bailout.

Taking this view, the 1981/1982 recession was worse than the depression because you had high inflation. From 1929 - 1933, prices had decreased by 50%; so taking your view, it must have been a blessing for Americans to watch prices fall.

Wait, you mean to tell me that inflation also takes into account asset valuation such as real estate, commodities, investments, etc...?
 
people were dumping their homes faster then than today and the working Americans were suffering more then than today. That is reality. Very few were buying homes because of the high interest rates so it was tough, a lot tougher then than today when there are lines for the latest IPhone.

Prove that foreclosures were higher today than they were in 1981/82. Prove that less homes were being purchased in 1981/82 (on average) than today.

You may now attempt to weasel out of actually supporting your argument with something other than talking points.
 
Unless you weigh in the fact that inflation is being artificially suppressed right now through the printing of worthless money

I also want to make another point. Without Federal Reserve policy pushing intrabank lending rates to the zero bound, inflation would most likely be negative. Ask the Japanese how well a negative (or stagnant) rate of inflation has improved their standard of living.
 
Taking this view, the 1981/1982 recession was worse than the depression because you had high inflation. From 1929 - 1933, prices had decreased by 50%; so taking your view, it must have been a blessing for Americans to watch prices fall.

Wait, you mean to tell me that inflation also takes into account asset valuation such as real estate, commodities, investments, etc...?

Inflation affects daily cost of living more than long term values on assets although a lot of people did quite well on CD's during the 81-82 recession taking advantage of High interest rates. The point remains the recession impacted individuals during each era differently and further the reality is the cost of living today is better than it was during the 81-82 recession but more importantly the leadership in 81-82 was much better than it is today as was the prescription for solving the economic problems.

Were you individually better off in the 81-82 recession than you are today? Personally I am better off today than I was during the 81-82 recession because of the low inflation and lower taxes
 
Prove that foreclosures were higher today than they were in 1981/82. Prove that less homes were being purchased in 1981/82 (on average) than today.

You may now attempt to weasel out of actually supporting your argument with something other than talking points.

Noticed the only one weaseling out is you, are you worse off today than you were in 1981-82? That is what people today are seeing and feeling thus the very low JAR of Obama.
 
Noticed the only one weaseling out is you, are you worse off today than you were in 1981-82? That is what people today are seeing and feeling thus the very low JAR of Obama.

You can't blame one person for the economy.
 
You can't blame one person for the economy.

I blame Obama for being incompetent about his understanding of the private sector economy and his strong desire to micromanage the economy from a strong central govt. and then people like you supporting him.
 
I blame Obama for being incompetent about his understanding of the private sector economy and his strong desire to micromanage the economy from a strong central govt. and then people like you supporting him.

Okay, so we don't blame Obama then?
 
Okay, so we don't blame Obama then?

If one is incompetent why wouldn't you blame him? The economic results today are a reflection of that incompetence yet you are willing to give him a pass, why?
 
Noticed the only one weaseling out is you, are you worse off today than you were in 1981-82? That is what people today are seeing and feeling thus the very low JAR of Obama.

It is a negligent question as i was born after 1981-82. People are worse off today; we can just look at record foreclosures and continued downward trend in housing prices (peoples largest investment).

Many homeowners already are at the financial edge:
43% of American households spend more than they earn each year.
– Homeownership Preservation Foundation data of 60,000 homeowners

52% of employees live paycheck to paycheck.
– The MetLife Study of Employee Benefit Trends: Findings from the 2003 National Survey of Employers and Employees, November 2003.

Nearly 42% of all American households do not have enough in liquid financial assets to support themselves for at least three months.
46% of American households have less than $5,000 in liquid assets, including IRAs.
- Asena Caner and Edward N. Wolff, “Asset Poverty in the United States: Its Persistence in an Expansionary Economy,” Levy Economics Institute of Bard College, 2004.

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