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Republican wins Democratic New York House seat

TheNextEra said:
What's ironic is you have posted that the Democratic party left you, so you stopped voting for them. Yet you cannot fathom the idea the Repulican party has left people so Ikari cannot vote for them.

Hypocrisy at it's best and it's displayed by your own comments about yourself.

Although I don't agree with many things Ikari says I have more respect for him than you because he stands by his principles unlike you. Sad you can't even understand what that really means.

Conservatives like to talk about values, but vote for evil.

Ikari gives us all something to think about and no, there is no sarcasm emote in what I
saying
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If I thought the party was evil I would move out of the country. Your definition of evil certainly appears to be not mine. I believe in a smaller limited govt. that will allow me to take care of my family and myself. The Democrat Party has no room in it for Conservatives but the Republican Party does. That Republican Party lost its way during the Bush years but I would take Bush back in a heartbeat. The actual results are a lot different than the media reported and I use non partisan data from bea.gov, bls.gov. and the U.S. Treasury Dept to verify the rhetoric.

There is no hypocrisy with me at all. I know there isn't the perfect candidate out there and I know how our govt. works. I will continue to vote for the candidate that is closest to my point of view that has a chance to will. I will not vote for a third party when I know the numbers are going to elect someone like Obama. Third Party candidates like Perot only serve as spoilers and as a result we get the choice that may not be in my best interest or the country's.

Libertarians have to live with the consequences of their vote but I see libertarians washing their hands of the results. Doesn't sound like accepting responsibility to me and I am all about accepting responsibility for my actions.
 
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Ikari said:
You never know. You have to perform the experiment. And all parties given time will corrupt so you'll have to vote them out eventually regardless. However, the experiment is done with the main parties as they're the ones always being elected. And from their performance and action it is clear to see that they are functionally equivalent. I can no longer hold any confidence in the GOP. For too long they have acted in the big government, big debt, big spending, big war, big brother manner; and I for one say that 1984 should be a warning, not a playbook. Till that changes and I can see that change, I cannot return to the GOP. I will have to find my best alternative elsewhere. And if that means voting third party, then so be it. The system only works if you vote for the candidate which best echos your political ideology, not the one you think can best win.
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Actually it is better working from inside than from the outside where you have no credibility. Third party candidates have no chance of winning on the national stage and thus it is always easy claiming they would be any different. Power does corrupt and regardless of what you think your candidate will do there is no guarantee that your candidate won't be corrupt as well. the answer is term limits and get these career politicians out of office.
 
Conservative said:
If I thought the party was evil I would move out of the country. Your definition of evil certainly appears to be not mine. I believe in a smaller limited govt. that will allow me to take care of my family and myself. The Democrat Party has no room in it for Conservatives but the Republican Party does. That Republican Party lost its way during the Bush years but I would take Bush back in a heartbeat. The actual results are a lot different than the media reported and I use non partisan data from bea.gov, bls.gov. and the U.S. Treasury Dept to verify the rhetoric.
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I do not believe there is any room for true conservatism in the GOP anymore. And I voted for Bush, Primary and election. Betrayed in the end, and that's when I took stock of the changing GOP landscape and saw that there was no room for true small government beliefs.

When you have something better than a "lesser of two evils" argument, I'll listen and consider it. But that's all you got. That's how desperate the entire circus has become. Each side points to the other and says "they're so much worse!" (another similarity between the two, it's why I call them Republocrats. I honestly view the lot of you as one party). That's not really a ringing endorsement. I don't care if they're so much worse, I want to know why you are so much better that you deserve my vote. I think the party centric belief and worship, however, is exceedingly dangerous and destructive to the future and well being of the Republic.
 
Conservative said:
Very general statement on your part, where is your proof? Obama got most of the Jewish vote in 2008
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It was overly general. I apologize. I've been tarred with "anti-semitic" more than once for saying that I think Israel shares some blame.
 
Conservative said:
Actually it is better working from inside than from the outside where you have no credibility. Third party candidates have no chance of winning on the national stage and thus it is always easy claiming they would be any different. Power does corrupt and regardless of what you think your candidate will do there is no guarantee that your candidate won't be corrupt as well. the answer is term limits and get these career politicians out of office.
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Been there, done that. They won't listen, they're too big to listen. All they need me for is my vote, and after that I'd be lucky to get cab fare. Particularly if I fall into the "lesser of two evils" arguments. Then nothing will change. I'm better off in a third party at that stage. The best I could hope for by endorsing one of the Republocrats is to be slightly less worse than if the other were elected. That's it. But each election cycle, we ratchet down just a bit further. I don't particularly want to see the Republic bottom out. So until you can field a better candidate, until you can come to me with something much better than a "lesser of two evils" argument; don't count on my vote. That will go to the one I believe is best for the job. Always.
 
rocket88 said:
It was overly general. I apologize. I've been tarred with "anti-semitic" more than once for saying that I think Israel shares some blame.
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Israel does share some of the blame, they too often like to bomb apartment complexes and such in search for terrorists. Though it's a tough situation seeing as the leadership of Palestine refuses to accept a Jewish State. In the end, I think we should let them handle it and mind our own business. We got problems of our own, don't need to be worrying about the world too.
 
Ikari said:
That's the true power of the third parties. Plus it's not so much "we can't have the best, then who cares if we get the worst", the Republocrats already represent the worst. So if we're going to get the worst regardless, might as well vote for something else.
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There was a time when I did the same thing. Now I try to pick the lessor of two evils. As an example many people think if it was a two horse race Gore would have won in 2000. Wonder what the world would look like if that had happened. Sure there would have been lousy things he did as well, but Iraq is probably not one of them.
 
washunut said:
There was a time when I did the same thing. Now I try to pick the lessor of two evils. As an example many people think if it was a two horse race Gore would have won in 2000. Wonder what the world would look like if that had happened. Sure there would have been lousy things he did as well, but Iraq is probably not one of them.
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Well there's also the whole court thing that happened there too. Perhaps we could have gotten off lightly with just global warming scams instead of an international war lasting a decade.
 
Ikari said:
Well there's also the whole court thing that happened there too. Perhaps we could have gotten off lightly with just global warming scams instead of an international war lasting a decade.
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I would take that trade!
 
Conservative said:
You are right, all I know is what has happened. Aren't you speculating what a Libertarian would do and how would he do it with a Congress made up of Democrats and Republicans? What makes a Libertarian making promises that you know they will never deliver because they will never win national office any different than what we have right now, promises that aren't being delivered?
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I judge based on actions, not promises. I have mentioned a few times...Im not a democrat...Id vote for Bill Clinton. I'll never vote for a 'party' again. That includes a libertarian ticket.
 
VanceMack said:
I judge based on actions, not promises. I have mentioned a few times...Im not a democrat...Id vote for Bill Clinton. I'll never vote for a 'party' again. That includes a libertarian ticket.
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That's a good attitude to have though. I identify as libertarian, and I will mostly vote for those candidates. But it's not a blind vote, I only vote for candidates I've researched. And yes, as you say actions not promises. We don't know what the LP would quite do if they got in charge, so you have to run the experiment to find out. But we have plenty of Republocrat data.

As for Clinton...I'd take him over Obama or Bush...and I wanted his ass impeached when he was President (still do [OK, he's not President anymore...but if], lying under oath when your Pres...not acceptable). It just goes to show how we end up with worse each and every election cycle.
 
LesGovt said:
Did you know that the Smallest Political Quiz used to have a question that had as its basis that we should let peaceful people cross borders freely? According to the Quiz, the pure libertarian answer was yes.

World's Smallest Political Quiz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Thats kinda the silliness of the "pure" libertarian concept. Tell me...are you so blindly tied to your party that you sacrificed the ability for independent thought or is that just a little "zing" you throw in?
 
Ikari said:
As for Clinton...I'd take him over Obama or Bush...and I wanted his ass impeached when he was President (still do [OK, he's not President anymore...but if], lying under oath when your Pres...not acceptable). It just goes to show how we end up with worse each and every election cycle.
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with Clinton its strictly a political support. I dont so muh care about the lyin under oath as i do about what he was giving testimony for in the first place.
 
VanceMack said:
I judge based on actions, not promises. I have mentioned a few times...Im not a democrat...Id vote for Bill Clinton. I'll never vote for a 'party' again. That includes a libertarian ticket.
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I have never voted a straight party ticket in my life as I vote for the man and always will. I have voted for Democrats and Republicans but never a third party spoiler.
 
1Perry said:
LOL, I thought it was kind of clever. :D
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And, it was very clever. I just don't want to get into calling any other party some juvenile name.
 
VanceMack said:
Thats kinda the silliness of the "pure" libertarian concept. Tell me...are you so blindly tied to your party that you sacrificed the ability for independent thought or is that just a little "zing" you throw in?
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I always think independently. What little "zing" are you referring to?
 
Conservative said:
I have never voted a straight party ticket in my life as I vote for the man and always will. I have voted for Democrats and Republicans but never a third party spoiler.
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Vive le difference...we all vote our belief system.
 
LesGovt said:
I always think independently. What little "zing" are you referring to?
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Tell me the little line about the worlds smallest political quiz and thr 1 question on open borders wasnt supposed to be a little dig at 'real' libertarians. And for the record...have YOU taken it? Just how much a libertarian are you and how much of you refuses to admit it?
 
Conservative said:
I have never voted a straight party ticket in my life as I vote for the man and always will. I have voted for Democrats and Republicans but never a third party spoiler.
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Yet you don't vote for the best man, only the man who will win as you admitted pages ago. The lesser or two evils, but still evill. That's the ironic thing
 
TheNextEra said:
Yet you don't vote for the best man, only the man who will win as you admitted pages ago. The lesser or two evils, but still evill. That's the ironic thing
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Only the man that has a chance to win that is why I don't vote for a third party. Bush was the better man vs Gore and Kerry, and McCain was the better man vs. Obama
 
Conservative said:
Only the man that has a chance to win that is why I don't vote for a third party. Bush was the better man vs Gore and Kerry, and McCain was the better man vs. Obama
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So you like the Bush results after his 8 years in office?

BTW Gore won the popular vote.
 
winston53660 said:
So you like the Bush results after his 8 years in office?

BTW Gore won the popular vote.
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What does that have to do with the election? Bush had a lot of help in 2007-2008 with a Democrat Controlled Congress of which Obama was part.

BTW I am sure you were forced to take civics in school and thus learned that popular vote doesn't elect the President.
 
Conservative said:
Only the man that has a chance to win that is why I don't vote for a third party. Bush was the better man vs Gore and Kerry, and McCain was the better man vs. Obama
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I'm not going to vote for who I feel has a better chance of winning if that candidate is not the best alternative for me. That's all.

And at this point, I don't know if Bush was better than Gore. I may be saying right now with Gore what I say with Clinton. "Sure I hated him at the time, and thought he was the worst President in my life; but now he doesn't seem that bad".
 
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