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Republican wins Democratic New York House seat

LesGovt said:
You got it. I believed he was wrong for America prior to the election of 2008 and Limbaugh was right when he wanted him to fail.
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yes, it was his agenda that he wanted to fail because most people recognize the liberal leftwing agenda and massive growth and control of the Govt. is bad for this country. Obama succeeding would be making this country into a failed socialist utopia like countries in Europe, high unemployment, low economic growth, and cradle to grave coverage. Who wants that here?
 
Ikari said:
Well there's a tune that's pulled a 180 since Bush was in office.
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Really? I don't recall anyone saying that they hoped Bush would fail on everything? Who do you think said that?
 
Conservative said:
yes, it was his agenda that he wanted to fail because most people recognize the liberal leftwing agenda and massive growth and control of the Govt. is bad for this country. Obama succeeding would be making this country into a failed socialist utopia like countries in Europe, high unemployment, low economic growth, and cradle to grave coverage. Who wants that here?
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Who wants that here? People who want others to take care of them so they can sit around and smoke pot. :roll:
 
Conservative said:
When was the last time NY 9 elected a Republican? I care about the truth but realize there is nothing we can do today about what happened during the Bush years but we can do something about the present which NY 9 voters did yesterday and about this President that has made things worse, higher unemployment, declining labor force, higher debt, and higher misery index. NY 9 seems to have gotten it and if that District went Republicans then Obama is in deed trouble in 2012. America is waking up to the reality they made a mistake in 2008
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Those things have happened because there was never any solution for them under the conditions of our current socio-political-legal system. They would have happened anyway, regardless of what anyone tried.

There are complex cultural, social and psychological reasons why NY9 went Republican, but it wasn't because the entire population rose up in a fervor because they were beside themselves with hatred for Obama and that voting for a Republican was the closest they could get to getting out Obama. Maybe that motivated a few of them to turnover, but the feelings and view points that kept Democrats away from the polls have less to do with specific people and more with how Washington operates as a system. If they also stay home during the Obama election, its not because they believe they made a mistake in voting for Obama (Americans are too conceited to believe it is possible for their political opinions to have been the wrong ones), but because they are convinced that the system itself is ordered in a way where their vote doesn't amount to anything.

You're making assumptions about the motivations of voters in a way that doesn't do justice to the reality of what's going on inside them.
 
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Conservative said:
No, sorry Democrats have stacked the deck as history shows that at least 43% of the public are going to vote for a Democrat regardless of the candidate and 26% Republican regardless of the candidate meaning that no third party has a chance. That is reality.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

There are certainly people who will vote party lines regardless. But that's in a day and age of stifled and limited information. When the choice is presented as just two, then you go from that. If others were allowed to freely participate then those numbers would likely change with time. And it wasn't just the Democrats to stack the deck, but you're essentially proving the point. You're so blind that you can't see the forest for the trees. You refuse to take an honest look at the system, rather it's all the democrats fault and the republicans bring icecream to poor kids on hot days.

There is a set of party voters, that doesn't mean the system cannot be influenced through third party pressure. I'm not sure if I buy your numbers, but we also have a situation in which almost half the voting populace doesn't vote either; and that's a wealth of people to tap into if you can get them excited. But they've given up because they're caught in the Republocrat design. The probability ain't zero, so third parties DO have a chance.
 
Paschendale said:
It's very sad how much damage this country has had to sustain in order to help republicans discredit Obama and push them back into power. Even sadder is how much more damage this country will sustain with leadership whose only goal is to secure power and wealth for themselves. It would be great to see a republican who actually lived up to republican ideals like community focus, actual morality, support of small business, and military non-intervention. Instead we get greedy pricks who smash small business for large ones, take focus away from community with an obsession over nuclear families, ignore Christian morality like actually loving one's neighbor, and use the US military to kill personal enemies and secure wealth for corporate interests.

It boggles my mind why anyone votes for mainstream republicans. They don't actually follow their party's platform at all.
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Hence, the tea party. This is the nature of why it was founded. Instead of recognizing that, liberals try to paint them as racists to discredit them.

And around and around it goes.
 
LesGovt said:
Really? I don't recall anyone saying that they hoped Bush would fail on everything? Who do you think said that?
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I remember people saying that you can't act against the sitting president. That you're either with us or against us. Remember that a lot. Now it's ok to be against the sitting president and even hope they fail. But when it was Bush, hoping that he failed was somehow related to some larger "America failing" thing.
 
Conservative said:
How about doing what is right for America and that would be supporting Israel? How about stopping with the rapid shift towards a European Socialist Model and do the will of the people? NY 9 says a lot about what is going on, wonder when his supporters wake up. This was Chuck Schumer's seat, huge Democrat District that is showing the direction of the country today as more and more Americans finally admit that this country made a mistake in voting for Obama
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This is your first post in this thread and you do what you always do, high jack it and turn it into be all about Obama.:roll:
 
Ikari said:
No, I will not limit my critique of the party's control and influence to the time frame you want to try to make yourself look good. Your side sucks just as well. You want to limit what I can say? Why? Because you know when the R's were in charge, they were just as bad. What have Republicans done since 2007? Run obstructionist campaigns on nothing more than partisan BS. We couldn't even have an honest debate on healthcare.
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I will never argue with the arguement that both parties are to blame, but I will point out that the (D)'s had no desire for a debate on Health Care. They had all three branches and cared less what anyone else thought.

Socialism this and death panel. How long did Republicans hold us hostage to get tax cuts for the rich to stick? You want to run your mouth about funding Medicaid or Unemployment when we're broke?
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Obama's current arguement is to cut S.S. funding.

How the hell do you run an expansive international war when you're broke? Huh?
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Good question. Why are we?

How do you keep handing out money like its candy to places like Israel when we're broke?
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I dunno. Why are we?

If we're cutting funding because we're broke, I will cut funding for each and every asshole out there BEFORE I would consider cutting any support for American people.

I got a better question. Since 2007, what have Republicans done FOR us?
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As you note, about the same as the D's. Throw them all out.
 
Ikari said:
I remember people saying that you can't act against the sitting president. That you're either with us or against us. Remember that a lot. Now it's ok to be against the sitting president and even hope they fail. But when it was Bush, hoping that he failed was somehow related to some larger "America failing" thing.
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I openly rooted for Bush to fail on TARP.
 
pbrauer said:
This is your first post in this thread and you do what you always do, high jack it and turn it into be all about Obama.:roll:
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Funny how politics works like that... And yes, it is peripherally about Obama since (if you read the articles posted) the NY seat was won at least in part by making his run against Obama policies as a referendum.

Other than whining about another poster - do you have any comment on the Bob Turner win or Weprin loss? Perhaps an analysis of the campaign and strategy used?
 
Morality Games said:
Those things have happened because there was never any solution for them under the conditions of our current socio-political-legal system. They would have happened anyway, regardless of what anyone tried.

There are complex cultural, social and psychological reasons why NY9 went Republican, but it wasn't because the entire population rose up in a fervor because they were beside themselves with hatred for Obama and that voting for a Republican was the closest they could get to getting out Obama. Maybe that motivated a few of them to turnover, but the feelings and view points that kept Democrats away from the polls have less to do with specific people and more with how Washington operates as a system. If they also stay home during the Obama election, its not because they believe they made a mistake in voting for Obama (Americans are too conceited to believe it is possible for their political opinions to have been the wrong ones), but because they are convinced that the system itself is ordered in a way where their vote doesn't amount to anything.

You're making assumptions about the motivations of voters in a way that doesn't do justice to the reality of what's going on inside them.
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So tell me, Obama won 52%of the vote, black, Latino, White, and every other race in 2008. Today his popularity is in the low 40's and upper 30's. Did those people that voted for him all of a sudden wake up and say they now hate him? That is illogical and defies reality. It is the Obama policies that people hate, NOT Obama although some do but not enough to make a difference. Those that truly hate Obama were in the minority in 2008 so that is nothing more than liberal spin today.

The motivation today are the results he has generated, results that you want to ignore. Address the results and not your emotional feelings that aren't based upon logic and common sense or the facts.
 
Conservative said:
NY 9 with a 4-1 advantage for the Democrats went for a Republican 54-46. The country realizes it made a mistakein voting for Obama, when will you?
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This is exactly what the problem is. Everything for the last three years has been supposed referendums on Obama. Nothing by republicans has been about actually governing. It's just been about making sure that a democrat can't govern. The vote in NY9 should be about the people of NY9, and nothing else. But this isn't the case. Every single thing the republicans (tea partiers included) have done in the last three years has just been about unseating Obama, and we all have been paying the price.

The entire party policy is to punish the country for voting for Obama. How dare we not let them continue to lord over us. Making us regret that vote is their whole point. These last three years have been nothing more than a ransom attempt by republicans.

I know this comes off as highly partisan, but one side really is doing things that are much worse than the others. This has nothing to do with republican ideals, some of which I spoke of favorably back on page 8. This is about tactics. Republicans are using tactics akin to Captain Planet villains. Wtf are we doing letting them get away with it? Why are republican voters not demanding integrity and honesty from their candidates? Why are they allowed to continue hurting the country for their own benefit?

Republicans, I implore you, stop these @$$holes and field candidates who follow the ideals of your party!
 
Ikari said:
I remember people saying that you can't act against the sitting president. That you're either with us or against us. Remember that a lot. Now it's ok to be against the sitting president and even hope they fail. But when it was Bush, hoping that he failed was somehow related to some larger "America failing" thing.
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I answered that to Morality Games, suggest you read that post as it is right on. Somewhere between 12-15%of the people who voted for Obama in 2008 now seem to be against him today and I assure you it has everything to do with results, results that you want to ignore. They liked him in 2008 but now realize they had a different definition of Hope and Change than Obama has.
 
1Perry said:
I will never argue with the arguement that both parties are to blame, but I will point out that the (D)'s had no desire for a debate on Health Care. They had all three branches and cared less what anyone else thought.
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They sure didn't. The entire debate quickly fell into some horrible partisan mockery of debate. We never even had an honest go of it. I'm not likely to have supported any form of nationalized health care, but there's no reason that we can't intelligently debate it.

1Perry said:
Obama's current arguement is to cut S.S. funding.
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There needs to be massive cuts to government spending and government itself.

1Perry said:
Good question. Why are we?
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Apparently it's fun or something. I don't know. We're not accomplishing anything, it's not our job to bring "democracy" to the world. We're just wasting lives and money.

1Perry said:
I dunno. Why are we?
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Unsure. But some people here say we have to.

1Perry said:
As you note, about the same as the D's. Throw them all out.
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I'd love to. Cannot change the status quo through support of the status quo. But it's a HUGE uphill battle. Worth the fight, but it's a big one. The system is so skewed away from free engagement and control by the People that it's going to require major effort to fix. The Republocrats have fixed the field so well that it's hard to even get media coverage for third parties.

I like to use the example of the Bush/Kerry (I believe) debates in Arizona where Cobb and Badnarik (Green and Libertarian Presidential candidates respectively) were ARRESTED outside the Presidential debates. Slowly for the Republocrat supporters who may not understand what's shocking about that. 2 official Presidential candidates were arrested outside the Presidential debates. The Republocrats used force of government to prevent free competition of ideas. That's not America. That's not even Mexico.
 
Ikari said:
I remember people saying that you can't act against the sitting president. That you're either with us or against us. Remember that a lot. Now it's ok to be against the sitting president and even hope they fail. But when it was Bush, hoping that he failed was somehow related to some larger "America failing" thing.
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What are you talking about? You "remember people saying that you can't act against the sitting president?" Really? Can you provide a source for those comments?

That you are with us or against us? I remember that one. It wa Bush who said it. I'm not sure how that relates to people wanting Bush want to fail.

It's now okay to want this President to fail? Heavens yes! Naturally, it would be better to have him succeed as a right thinking conservative, but that ain't gonna happen.

Again, I don't recall anyone saying that they wanted Bush to fail on everything. I'll await your evidence. Thanks.
 
1Perry said:
I openly rooted for Bush to fail on TARP.
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I wanted him to fail on a lot of ****, including things like Real ID Act, Patriot Act, etc. But if I wasn't with y'all I was against ya...apparently.
 
pbrauer said:
This is your first post in this thread and you do what you always do, high jack it and turn it into be all about Obama.:roll:
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NY 9 was about Obama and this 4-1 Democrat controlled District voted 54-46 against the Democrat Candidate who ran on the Obama platform. When was the last time this District elected a Republican?
 
1Perry said:
I openly rooted for Bush to fail on TARP.
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Oh, this must be Ikari's evidence. One person wanting Bush to fail on one item. Ah, got it.
 
Paschendale said:
This is exactly what the problem is. Everything for the last three years has been supposed referendums on Obama. Nothing by republicans has been about actually governing. It's just been about making sure that a democrat can't govern. The vote in NY9 should be about the people of NY9, and nothing else. But this isn't the case. Every single thing the republicans (tea partiers included) have done in the last three years has just been about unseating Obama, and we all have been paying the price.

The entire party policy is to punish the country for voting for Obama. How dare we not let them continue to lord over us. Making us regret that vote is their whole point. These last three years have been nothing more than a ransom attempt by republicans.

I know this comes off as highly partisan, but one side really is doing things that are much worse than the others. This has nothing to do with republican ideals, some of which I spoke of favorably back on page 8. This is about tactics. Republicans are using tactics akin to Captain Planet villains. Wtf are we doing letting them get away with it? Why are republican voters not demanding integrity and honesty from their candidates? Why are they allowed to continue hurting the country for their own benefit?

Republicans, I implore you, stop these @$$holes and field candidates who follow the ideals of your party!
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How can the Republicans govern anything without Control of the Congress? From 2007-January 2011 Democrats had overwhelming control of the Congress and in 2009-2010 control of the WH. 2010 election is an indication of what this country will do in 2012 as was the election yesterday in NY 9
 
Erod said:
Hence, the tea party. This is the nature of why it was founded. Instead of recognizing that, liberals try to paint them as racists to discredit them.

And around and around it goes.
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Tea partiers don't do those things either. They just want their taxes (and no one else's) taxes lowered, but their benefits (and no one else's) protected. And to keep gays and atheists from being full citizens. They love Christianity as a label, without actually being Christ-like.
 
Conservative said:
I answered that to Morality Games, suggest you read that post as it is right on. Somewhere between 12-15%of the people who voted for Obama in 2008 now seem to be against him today and I assure you it has everything to do with results, results that you want to ignore. They liked him in 2008 but now realize they had a different definition of Hope and Change than Obama has.
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When Obama was running for office and people were running around shouting "Hope and Change" and all that nonsense, I told them that he's a Chicago politician and you shouldn't trust him. In the end he'll be almost exactly like Bush I told them. And lo and behold, it turns out I was right. Bush II.
 
Ockham said:
Funny how politics works like that... And yes, it is peripherally about Obama since (if you read the articles posted) the NY seat was won at least in part by making his run against Obama policies as a referendum.

Other than whining about another poster - do you have any comment on the Bob Turner win or Weprin loss? Perhaps an analysis of the campaign and strategy used?
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I didn't follow the campaign, I understand Weprin was a piss poor candidate. He was asked what the national debt was on TV and his answer was $4 trillion. Politics are local and I don't see where this affects Obama who likely will win reelection.
 
Paschendale said:
Republicans, I implore you, stop these @$$holes and field candidates who follow the ideals of your party!
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What are you talking about? President Obama is not the GOP's candidate.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Are people under some impression that the president has been sitting on the "Magically Fix Everything" Button and is simply refusing to press it to spite conservatives?
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No. We're under the impression that he's in over his head big time.
 
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