Working-age poor population highest since '60s

[lpast]

Counting adults 18-64 who were laid off in the recent recession as well as single twenty-somethings still looking for jobs, the new working-age poor represent nearly 3 out of 5 poor people — a switch from the early 1970s when children made up the main impoverished group.



Working-age poor at highest levels since '60s - Business - US business - msnbc.com

 

[Helix]

We need to make the changes necessary to manufacture goods domestically again. Until we do so (or until another industry absorbs the displaced workers), there will be many working and non-working poor.

 

[Ikari]

We need to make the changes necessary to manufacture goods domestically again. Until we do so (or until another industry absorbs the displaced workers), there will be many working and non-working poor.

The only way to really do that is tariff. Companies no longer have loyalty to consumers and employees the way they once did. They'll pick up and leave at a moments notice. Fire as many people as necessary to make their "profit" look good that quarter. The more and more we give them, the more and more they take. It would require regulation and tariff of appropriate level to force manufacturing back into the US.

 

[AdamT]

We need to make the changes necessary to manufacture goods domestically again. Until we do so (or until another industry absorbs the displaced workers), there will be many working and non-working poor.

The problem with that statement is that we're manufacturing more now than we ever have. But because of computers and automation, manufacturing supports only a fraction of the employment that it once did. So what should be do? Tell manufacturers that they can't use computers and automated assembly lines? It's not going to work, any more than tariffs will work. What we need to do is develop and export intellectual capital.

 

[ric27]

We are shipping jobs off shore because it is infinately cheaper to do so and the only thing that matters on American books, including yours, is the bottom line.

 

[justabubba]

We need to make the changes necessary to manufacture goods domestically again. Until we do so (or until another industry absorbs the displaced workers), there will be many working and non-working poor.

an economic factor, comparative advantage, works against this desire coming to fruition
where the capital and material costs of manufacturing are (near) equal and the labor costs are substantially different, the nation with the lower labor cost component is going to normally prevail
the regulatory burden (expense) of manufacturing in industrialized nations is likely going to exceed that of emerging nations. that adds an additional financial advantage to the manufacturers located in lesser regulated nations
the industrialized nations retain price of goods advantage when the cost of transportation/export to the buying nations exceeds the savings they enjoy from low labor and regulatory expense
another advantage of industrialized nations is the availability of a higher skilled/educated work force, superior infrastructure, and/or more efficient manufacturing processes/superior technology

unfortunately, our investment in infrastructure, and education has not kept pace with other emerging nations while our labor costs remain at the high end. our superior standard of living and the high labor cost necessary to maintain that standard have priced us out of much of the low end manufacturing sectors

in contrast, we can observe china with a supply of low cost labor, low capital costs, and enhanced infrastructure and low regulatory burden, being able to overcome all competitive obstacles other than transportation expense. its comparative advantages are being translated into its becoming the world's dominant trading partner. china has more computers than the USA. it has more english speakers than the USA. and it is a nation where achieving a technical education is recognized as the path to a better standard of living. only if we can address those advantages could we begin to ponder how to expand our domestic manufacturing and compete with the chinese juggernaut

 

[ric27]

an economic factor, comparative advantage, works against this desire coming to fruition
where the capital and material costs of manufacturing are (near) equal and the labor costs are substantially different, the nation with the lower labor cost component is going to normally prevail
the regulatory burden (expense) of manufacturing in industrialized nations is likely going to exceed that of emerging nations. that adds an additional financial advantage to the manufacturers located in lesser regulated nations
the industrialized nations retain price of goods advantage when the cost of transportation/export to the buying nations exceeds the savings they enjoy from low labor and regulatory expense
another advantage of industrialized nations is the availability of a higher skilled/educated work force, superior infrastructure, and/or more efficient manufacturing processes/superior technology

unfortunately, our investment in infrastructure, and education has not kept pace with other emerging nations while our labor costs remain at the high end. our superior standard of living and the high labor cost necessary to maintain that standard have priced us out of much of the low end manufacturing sectors

in contrast, we can observe china with a supply of low cost labor, low capital costs, and enhanced infrastructure and low regulatory burden, being able to overcome all competitive obstacles other than transportation expense. its comparative advantages are being translated into its becoming the world's dominant trading partner. china has more computers than the USA. it has more english speakers than the USA. and it is a nation where achieving a technical education is recognized as the path to a better standard of living. only if we can address those advantages could we begin to ponder how to expand our domestic manufacturing and compete with the chinese juggernaut

I'll probably get some flak for sayin this but......

The Chinese and Indians work harder, work smarter, live in countries with vastly lower inflation and do not have the same sense of entitlement as Americans do. Parts from China that are 1/10th the price of American manufactuers and the bull**** notion that Chinese stuff is crap simply no longer applies.

 

[American]

We are shipping jobs off shore because it is infinately cheaper to do so and the only thing that matters on American books, including yours, is the bottom line.

I'm confused, what does all this mean on Chinese books? Obviously not the bottomline, right?

 

[Temporal]

The only way to really do that is tariff. Companies no longer have loyalty to consumers and employees the way they once did. They'll pick up and leave at a moments notice. Fire as many people as necessary to make their "profit" look good that quarter. The more and more we give them, the more and more they take. It would require regulation and tariff of appropriate level to force manufacturing back into the US.

Our government is too in bed with big businesses for this to happen, but I agree with you.

 

[American]

I'll probably get some flak for sayin this but......

The Chinese and Indians work harder, work smarter, live in countries with vastly lower inflation and do not have the same sense of entitlement as Americans do. Parts from China that are 1/10th the price of American manufactuers and the bull**** notion that Chinese stuff is crap simply no longer applies.

Inflation in China has been over 5% for many years. The US is at 1.4%.

 

[American]

Our government is too in bed with big businesses for this to happen, but I agree with you.

The Chinese govt isn't in bed with Chinese business, right?

 

[lpast]

The problem with that statement is that we're manufacturing more now than we ever have. But because of computers and automation, manufacturing supports only a fraction of the employment that it once did. So what should be do? Tell manufacturers that they can't use computers and automated assembly lines? It's not going to work, any more than tariffs will work. What we need to do is develop and export intellectual capital.

Theres 3.5 million less manufacturing jobs today than there were in 2000...the bulk of the jobs went to china

 

[lpast]

Inflation in China has been over 5% for many years. The US is at 1.4%.

thats because they are growin n leaps and bounds thanks to your corporations and were dieing here

 

[lpast]

The Chinese govt isn't in bed with Chinese business, right?

You need to get into reality man...china couldnt feed its people a few years go...they ate dog and cat....until OUR corporatiosn went there and exploited dirt cheap labor controlled for them by a COMMUNIST regime...they didnt have to worry about labor disputes the chinese govt would see to that...they didnt hve to worry about unions demanding more pay the chinese govt would just jail all of them....Our corporations get to conveniently turn a blind eye to the sweatshops they created that work 12 yr olds....ALL OUT OF GREED...period

 

[tessaesque]

I think we need to get over the idea of "manufacturing" being a viable industry. Even without cheaper labor overseas, automation will quickly phase out the need for human employees in the manufacturing center. What we need to do is adjust and adapt with the times. We're going to have to accept that unskilled or uneducated labor positions will shift into other industries or disappear entirely and invest in providing education resources to fill the gaps.

Manufacturing jobs are a short-term solution and any significant increase in U.S. manufacturing will likely result in higher prices and cost of living increases, so I'm not sure how great a solution it would truly be.

 

[American]

You need to get into reality man...china couldnt feed its people a few years go...they ate dog and cat....until OUR corporatiosn went there and exploited dirt cheap labor controlled for them by a COMMUNIST regime...they didnt have to worry about labor disputes the chinese govt would see to that...they didnt hve to worry about unions demanding more pay the chinese govt would just jail all of them....Our corporations get to conveniently turn a blind eye to the sweatshops they created that work 12 yr olds....ALL OUT OF GREED...period

Well gosh, maybe we should do away with all that, and we'll be successful too. You agree don't you?

 

[ric27]

I'm confused, what does all this mean on Chinese books? Obviously not the bottomline, right?

The sheer cost of funding retirement plans, most of all medical benefits, does weigh heavy on America. Simple ecomonics will dictate that the burden of these costs render companies uncompetative in the global economy. It's only going to get worse as the bulk of the baby boomers retire over the next couple of years.

As crude as this may sound....but welcome to global free market capitalism. We all voted for it. We put free market capitalism on the agenda and US entrepreneurs are taking advantage of it.

Can you blame them?

 

[lpast]

Well gosh, maybe we should do away with all that, and we'll be successful too. You agree don't you?

I dont kn ow what you mean

 

[lpast]

I think we need to get over the idea of "manufacturing" being a viable industry. Even without cheaper labor overseas, automation will quickly phase out the need for human employees in the manufacturing center. What we need to do is adjust and adapt with the times. We're going to have to accept that unskilled or uneducated labor positions will shift into other industries or disappear entirely and invest in providing education resources to fill the gaps.

Manufacturing jobs are a short-term solution and any significant increase in U.S. manufacturing will likely result in higher prices and cost of living increases, so I'm not sure how great a solution it would truly be.

Tess there will ALWAYS be manufacturing...thats the only way to produce hard goods...automation is a thing of the past...newer technology like robots have taken some jobs.....but there would be alot more jobs in this co untry if the greedy didnt move them to china and other countries..

 

[tessaesque]

Tess there will ALWAYS be manufacturing...thats the only way to produce hard goods...automation is a thing of the past...newer technology like robots have taken some jobs.....but there would be alot more jobs in this co untry if the greedy didnt move them to china and other countries..

Yeah, we'll always be making stuff, but humans won't be doing the making. Instead of having 1,500 men on the factory floor you'll have 100 robots or machines and maybe 50 mechanics to tend to the machines. We'll NEVER have a significant human manufacturing presence long term without extreme price increases, COL increases, and probable inflation. Relying on "new" manufacturing jobs to solve unemployment because they are "unskilled" jobs and easy to fill....it's a pipe dream. It's the wrong path to take.

You need innovation, new ideas, new ways forward. "Unskilled" will be a thing of the past in the near-future workforce. We're going to have to focus on educating workers in high-demand fields instead of allowing the lowest common denominator to stay low, taking on unskilled positions that require little education or training. Those jobs simply aren't going to exist much longer.

 

[AdamT]

Tess there will ALWAYS be manufacturing...thats the only way to produce hard goods...automation is a thing of the past...newer technology like robots have taken some jobs.....but there would be alot more jobs in this co untry if the greedy didnt move them to china and other countries..

It's free market economics, which is based on greed. It's not always a bad thing. China is already feeling the effects of its success, and like other low-wage countries before it, the wage advantage will erode over time.
China's Rising Wages Propel Prices - WSJ.com

Over many years prosperity is going to spread throughout the developing world and then developed countries like the US and those in the EU will have a more even playing field. In the meantime our only real option is to concentrate on higher value goods and intellectual capital like consulting services (see IBM), engineering services, intellectual property/patents, and the like.

 

[justabubba]

Yeah, we'll always be making stuff, but humans won't be doing the making. Instead of having 1,500 men on the factory floor you'll have 100 robots or machines and maybe 50 mechanics to tend to the machines. We'll NEVER have a significant human manufacturing presence long term without extreme price increases, COL increases, and probable inflation. Relying on "new" manufacturing jobs to solve unemployment because they are "unskilled" jobs and easy to fill....it's a pipe dream. It's the wrong path to take.

You need innovation, new ideas, new ways forward. "Unskilled" will be a thing of the past in the near-future workforce. We're going to have to focus on educating workers in high-demand fields instead of allowing the lowest common denominator to stay low, taking on unskilled positions that require little education or training. Those jobs simply aren't going to exist much longer.

we are there already
our workforce does not match the work needs

plenty of decent wage jobs out there
too few available with the skills to perform them

a college education today is what a high school education was during our nation's golden era: the minimum standard required to enjoy a middle class lifestyle

 

[ric27]

You need to get into reality man...china couldnt feed its people a few years go...they ate dog and cat....until OUR corporatiosn went there and exploited dirt cheap labor controlled for them by a COMMUNIST regime...they didnt have to worry about labor disputes the chinese govt would see to that...they didnt hve to worry about unions demanding more pay the chinese govt would just jail all of them....Our corporations get to conveniently turn a blind eye to the sweatshops they created that work 12 yr olds....ALL OUT OF GREED...period

Agreed. Shareholders aren't worried about nationalism or using sweatshop and child labor in China

Bottom line Its profit whoring

 

[Helix]

The problem with that statement is that we're manufacturing more now than we ever have. But because of computers and automation, manufacturing supports only a fraction of the employment that it once did. So what should be do? Tell manufacturers that they can't use computers and automated assembly lines? It's not going to work, any more than tariffs will work. What we need to do is develop and export intellectual capital.

Any manufacturer who wants tariff free access to our markets should have to meet the OSHA and emissions standards that American manufacturers are subject to.

Additionally, we have enough crumbling infrastructure to keep Americans employed for years to come. We also have a need for an expanded electrical grid to help us transition from oil. And we need people working on the next domestic source of energy. These initiatives would help to employ more Americans.

 

[tessaesque]

we are there already
our workforce does not match the work needs

plenty of decent wage jobs out there
too few available with the skills to perform them

a college education today is what a high school education was during our nation's golden era: the minimum standard required to enjoy a middle class lifestyle

I would say that it really depends on the person. I am not yet college educated but I'm in a position with a lot of advancement and significant income over the next few years, as is my boyfriend. You can still succeed without a college degree, but you cannot succeed without training and well-defined skills. There was a time when you could walk on a construction site in Texas and get a job simply by offering your labors. Today you have to have credentials and references a mile long before you'll be added on to a crew. Doesn't mean you need to go to college to build a house, but you damn sure can't expect to get the job if you're unfamiliar with the industry.