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Employers add no net jobs in Aug.; rate unchanged

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Conservative said:
He tried to prevent it which was a vote NO, why did he vote now and what did he do when the Democrats took control of the Congress in January 2007 and why didn't they try and prevent the housing crisis that occurred in 2008?
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For the 4th time, answer the question I am asking you ... not the question you are making up ...

Did Frank prevent H.R.1461 from passing in the House in 2005? Yes or no?
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
For the 4th time, answer the question I am asking you ... not the question you are making up ...

Did Frank prevent H.R.1461 from passing in the House in 2005? Yes or no?
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NO, now what is your point? And what did Frank and the Democrats do about the housing bubble when they took control in January 2007?
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
For the 4th time, answer the question I am asking you ... not the question you are making up ...

Did Frank prevent H.R.1461 from passing in the House in 2005? Yes or no?
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I could be wrong but it does look like failures always flock together, Obama, Geithner, Frank, Dodd, and Obama supporters.
 
Conservative said:
NO, now what is your point?
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The point is, Barney Frank did not prevent the much needed oversight as you are falsely trying to portray.

So who did?

Conservative said:
And what did Frank and the Democrats do about the housing bubble when they took control in January 2007?
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They did nothing, but the housing market was already destroyed by then as it peaked in 2006.
 
Conservative said:
NO, now what is your point? And what did Frank and the Democrats do about the housing bubble when they took control in January 2007?
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Actually housing starts had started decreasing mid 2006, and I'd have been happy for the run on housing starts to continue ... for the sake of jobs. Proper blame for the bubble falls to Clinton ... the excesses of risk to banking and politicians. 20x to 30x isn't a reasonable risk period ... yet we were 20x in 2000. One bank actually made it to 35x.
 
Conservative said:
I could be wrong but it does look like failures always flock together, Obama, Geithner, Frank, Dodd, and Obama supporters.
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Despite your insults, it was Republicans who were in charge back then when the housing bubble was ballooning to insane levels. Deal with it.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
The point is, Barney Frank did not prevent the much needed oversight as you are falsely trying to portray.

So who did?


They did nothing, but the housing market was already destroyed by then as it peaked in 2006.
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I see, so they did nothing to prevent implementation of the oversight required then after taking control of the Congress did not prevent the housing bubble from bursting by making sure the oversight was being done? Thank you, now stop blaiming Bush and accept responsibility for the failure of Democrats and Obama.

Obama economic results in 2011, .4% GDP and 1% GDP growth in 2011, 25+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011, 4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years, and a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating. Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.67. 38-41% JAR and well over 50-55% disapproval ratings.
 
AdamT said:
The "so what" is that it's obviously true. Even conservative Repubicans will admit it -- if they are out of office and don't have to sniff the teabaggers' behinds. Take ownerhip of your accomplishments! Your team forced the economy to the brink of collapse, dinged our credit rating for the first time, and crashed the markets. Actions have consequences. :shrug:
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Which is why S&P said the tea party ideas or even the Ryan play would have kept the downgrade from happening.
 
Conservative said:
I see, so they did nothing to prevent implementation of the oversight required then after taking control of the Congress did not prevent the housing bubble from bursting by making sure the oversight was being done?
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Why is it easier to pull teeth than it is to get you to stay focused and answer questions? Since Republicans were in charge in 2005 and passed H.R.1461 despite Frank's superman efforts to prevent it with his single vote.

So why did H.R.1461 never make it to Bush's desk? As you agreed to, it wasn't because of Barney Frank.

Conservative said:
Thank you, now stop blaiming Bush and accept responsibility for the failure of Democrats and Obama.
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Why should I stop blaming Bush when he said he and Republicans were responsible?


"Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all- time high." ~ George Bush, 9.2.2004, RNC acceptance speech​
 
Conservative said:
Well excuse me but did you not make the following post and if so why even mention China if you didn't want to compare this stimulus to theirs?
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I was comparing the level of spending relative to output, not whether their economy was like ours. Instead of acknowledging the superior stimulus package enacted from a neo-mercantilist society, you try to derail my point by inserting red herrings. The wages in China have no bearing on whether their stimulus package was successful.

Is it even possible for you to have a discussion without feeling the need to become fallacious when you do not even understand my argument?
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Why is it easier to pull teeth than it is to get you to stay focused and answer questions? Since Republicans were in charge in 2005 and passed H.R.1461 despite Frank's superman efforts to prevent it with his single vote.

So why did H.R.1461 never make it to Bush's desk? As you agreed to, it wasn't because of Barney Frank.


Why should I stop blaming Bush when he said he and Republicans were responsible?


"Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all- time high." ~ George Bush, 9.2.2004, RNC acceptance speech​
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I don't understand the negativity towards the housing bubble ... it provided employment. What would the economy have been like without it? We would be in a recession. Where would the capital from exported GDP have been invested. It sucks but I look at the bubble as a respite from recession.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
I was comparing the level of spending relative to output, not whether their economy was like ours. Instead of acknowledging the superior stimulus package enacted from a neo-mercantilist society, you try to derail my point by inserting red herrings. The wages in China have no bearing on whether their stimulus package was successful.

Is it even possible for you to have a discussion without feeling the need to become fallacious when you do not even understand my argument?
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You said the stimulus package wasn't big enough yet have never addressed how the money was spent therefore not really knowing whether or not it was too small. Until you address how the money was spent and justify it, your claim that it was too small isn't a fact but an opinion.
 
Michael H said:
I don't understand the negativity towards the housing bubble ... it provided employment. What would the economy have been like without it? We would be in a recession. Where would the capital from exported GDP have been invested. It sucks but I look at the bubble as a respite from recession.
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The negativity is because the bubble was allowed to balloon out of control until it ultimately burst and nearly destroyed our economy completely. Any recessions without the bubble, had we even had any, would have been mild, like the 2001 recession. The housing bubble burst turned a recession into a near depression.
 
Conservative said:
Sorry, see no logic and common sense in any of your posts along with zero facts to support your claims.
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My post history should be indicative enough. Be sure to point out any fallacies you see along with any unsupported claims.

All are text book definitions and references which have nothing to do with the actual results generated.
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Incorrect. This is the terminology used by those who have an actual understanding of political economy. If you cannot keep up with the lingo associated with this specific topic, then the blame is on you.

You need to get out in the real world and actually create something. Still waiting for your proof of your experience to even discuss the free market economy. I see an economists out of touch with reality.
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An ad hom (based on an erroneous assumption) and a red herring all in one! I have nothing to prove to you.

Obama economic results in 2011, .4% GDP and 1% GDP growth in 2011, 25+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011
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That's right, Obama is under preforming because he is not hiring. :roll:

4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years
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This is what happens during the worst recession since the great depression. Revenues fall! To expect spending to fall in accordance is not as hilarious as it is naive.

and a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating
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:lamo:lamo:lamo Are you serious? The same ratings agency that label sub prime junk AAA and forced their president to resign following the downgrade? I wonder why yields for government debt are at or near their historic lows.

Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.67. 38-41% JAR and well over 50-55% disapproval ratings.
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No doubt, this economic climate is indeed troubling.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
The negativity is because the bubble was allowed to balloon out of control until it ultimately burst and nearly destroyed our economy completely. Any recessions without the bubble, had we even had any, would have been mild, like the 2001 recession. The housing bubble burst turned a recession into a near depression.
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So what prevented that Great Depression? In addition suggest you do some research and find out why the HR 1461 died in the Senate but a better question is why wasn't it resubmitted with Democrats in control of both houses in 2007? You conveniently blame Bush but ignore Democrat involvement which is typical from you.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
My post history should be indicative enough. Be sure to point out any fallacies you see along with any unsupported claims.



Incorrect. This is the terminology used by those who have an actual understanding of political economy. If you cannot keep up with the lingo associated with this specific topic, then the blame is on you.



An ad hom (based on an erroneous assumption) and a red herring all in one! I have nothing to prove to you.



That's right, Obama is under preforming because he is not hiring. :roll:



This is what happens during the worst recession since the great depression. Revenues fall! To expect spending to fall in accordance is not as hilarious as it is naive.



:lamo:lamo:lamo Are you serious? The same ratings agency that label sub prime junk AAA and forced their president to resign following the downgrade? I wonder why yields for government debt are at or near their historic lows.

No doubt, this economic climate is indeed troubling.
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Actually we have been over this before but since I lived and worked during the 81-82 recession and then this one I found the 81-82 recession worse because of the high interest rates, high inflation which took unemployment to 10.8 percent and a misery index to over 20. The difference between the two is we had a pro growth President in the 80's and a Pro nanny state President now. When Reagan took office the country was going into recession, when Obama took office the country was coming out of a recession. The Obama economic policy has been a disaster and kept us in the throws of a recession even though technically not in a recession. Liberals place no blame on what Obama has done in the past 2 1/2 years so I will continue to post the results to remind you.
 
Conservative said:
So what prevented that Great Depression?
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TARP, ARRA, and printing up money 24/7 to flood into the economy.

Conservative said:
In addition suggest you do some research and find out why the HR 1461 died in the Senate
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Then why aren't you answering the question I asked? Should be simple for you, right?

Why did H.R.1461 never make it to Bush's desk?

Conservative said:
but a better question is why wasn't it resubmitted with Democrats in control of both houses in 2007? You conveniently blame Bush but ignore Democrat involvement which is typical from you.
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You're so full of ****, your eyes are brown. Despite your lies, I have not ignored "Democrat involvement." I've laid blame at their feet as well.
 
Conservative said:
You said the stimulus package wasn't big enough yet have never addressed how the money was spent therefore not really knowing whether or not it was too small. Until you address how the money was spent and justify it, your claim that it was too small isn't a fact but an opinion.
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Again, you will continue to misinterpret my argument because you do not understand the majority of what is being discussed. Research Okun's law, output gap, and fiscal multiplier. Once you are familiar with the terminology, maybe you can take another stab at a discussion about the macroeconomy.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
The negativity is because the bubble was allowed to balloon out of control until it ultimately burst and nearly destroyed our economy completely. Any recessions without the bubble, had we even had any, would have been mild, like the 2001 recession. The housing bubble burst turned a recession into a near depression.
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So you believe if we had remained at 20x instead of 30x we wouldn't have had a bubble as bad as we did? I would say with all the capital available and low interest rates we last a year at best and we still have a glut of housing with high valuations. Capital had been increasing ... not decreasing from the current account surplus in Asia. Also the devalued dollar was a contributing factor to hard asset increases / commodities. Either you have credit based housing with high valuations and a glut in the market. 6 months, a year, 18 months, unavoidable ... it had to happen. The only thing that stopped the increase in the current account was the bubble.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
TARP, ARRA, and printing up money 24/7 to flood into the economy.


Then why aren't you answering the question I asked? Should be simple for you, right?

Why did H.R.1461 never make it to Bush's desk?


You're so full of ****, your eyes are brown. Despite your lies, I have not ignored "Democrat involvement." I've laid blame at their feet as well.
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Add 16 trillion in secret loans to derivative gamblers ... now there a bailout.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
TARP, ARRA, and printing up money 24/7 to flood into the economy.


Then why aren't you answering the question I asked? Should be simple for you, right?

Why did H.R.1461 never make it to Bush's desk?


You're so full of ****, your eyes are brown. Despite your lies, I have not ignored "Democrat involvement." I've laid blame at their feet as well.
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Economists agree with you on TARP which of course was a Bush initiative, the ARRA? LOL, yep, got some great results from that, higher debt but we have been over that many, many times and you distort the results never explaining how the numbers today continue to be so poor.

Why the HR 1461 didn't reach the President's desk was due to the Senate but again you continue to look backwards which ignores the results today. Fact is Democrats took control of the Congress in 2007 and did nothing to either revive the bill or put restrictions on Freddie and Fannie.

I have never seen you put blame at the feet of the Democrats including the Democrats from 2009-2011 with overwhelming numbers. All I get from you is excuses and passing off the blame to Bush and the past. It has been 2 1/2 years of Obamanomics and the results speak for themselves, low JAR, net job losses, declining labor force and trillions added to the debt along with a rising misery index
 
Conservative said:
Actually we have been over this before but since I lived and worked during the 81-82 recession and then this one I found the 81-82 recession worse because of the high interest rates, high inflation which took unemployment to 10.8 percent and a misery index to over 20.
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To someone who has a poor understanding of the political economy, believing the 81-82 recession was the worst recession since the great depression is quite common.

The difference between the two is we had a pro growth President in the 80's and a Pro nanny state President now.
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Incorrect again! The difference between the two is we are in a liquidity trap. Volker induced the early 80's recession as a means of quelling inflation expectations. They are completely different and stem from separate aspects of market failure.

When Reagan took office the country was going into recession, when Obama took office the country was coming out of a recession. The Obama economic policy has been a disaster and kept us in the throws of a recession even though technically not in a recession. Liberals place no blame on what Obama has done in the past 2 1/2 years so I will continue to post the results to remind you.
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Look, i get it that you despise the Obama administration. The majority of your posts are venomous rants about "Obama this" and "Obama that". Until you understand the severity of our current situation, you will find great difficulty putting forth a credible argument. :shrug:
 
Goldenboy219 said:
Again, you will continue to misinterpret my argument because you do not understand the majority of what is being discussed. Research Okun's law, output gap, and fiscal multiplier. Once you are familiar with the terminology, maybe you can take another stab at a discussion about the macroeconomy.
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Get your nose out of the books and no the street. Your intellectual elitism shows and you have no concept of how the economy really works. The books tell you one thing and the real world tells us all something else. the problem with the economy today are liberal intellectual elites like you trying to apply theory to real world problems and human nature, neither of which you understand. Intellectual elites like you have created the problem we have today and have no solution for getting us out of the problems. I don't give a damn about Okun's law, output gap, or fiscal mulitiplier. Instead I more concerned about 25 million unemployed and under employed Americans, creation of the nanny state, and people like you promoting more taxpayer funded spending.
 
Conservative said:
Get your nose out of the books and no the street. Your intellectual elitism shows and you have no concept of how the economy really works. The books tell you one thing and the real world tells us all something else. the problem with the economy today are liberal intellectual elites like you trying to apply theory to real world problems and human nature, neither of which you understand. Intellectual elites like you have created the problem we have today and have no solution for getting us out of the problems. I don't give a damn about Okun's law, output gap, or fiscal mulitiplier. Instead I more concerned about 25 million unemployed and under employed Americans, creation of the nanny state, and people like you promoting more taxpayer funded spending.
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The classic "your wrong because i'm right" argument. When you are capable of keeping up with the discussion, let me know and i would be more than willing to continue. Given the content of your posts, you have a great deal of catch up to do.:2wave:
 
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