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Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

If you have evidence, please present it.

He's likely seen how you deal with disconfirming evidence.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

White people hold the vast majority of management or hiring positions, so just blurting out that they should fix it themselves is just a half assed attempt to distract from the issue. Blaming the victim is cute and all, but not relevant to what we're talking about and certainly no excuse for continued discrimination.

I'm not blaming the victim. I'm saying that nobody needs your help to improve themselves.

That's why the study looked at low income jobs. They're jobs where you drop off the resume in person. Other studies have found similar things in other types of job markets, but IMO this is the best one since they are using exactly the same resume.

Wal-Mart, Lowes, Harbor Freight, K-Mart, Autozone, those are the low paying jobs off the top of my head within 15 minutes of me that take their applications online.

The assertion of a right winger just doesn't suffice to counter scientific evidence collected by some of the most respected institutions in the world. If you have evidence, please present it.

You presented no evidence that there is massive discrimination.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Blaming the victim is cute and all, but not relevant to what we're talking about and certainly no excuse for continued discrimination.

There is no victim. There is a control group which we can use to test the hypothesis that skin color is the factor which is responsible for differing outcomes. Immigrants from Africa are black, in fact many are blacker than African Americans. How are they doing?


Overall, Africans immigrants performed better than the rest of the U.S. population in education and employment, the report shows. For instance, the rate of Africans with an undergraduate degree and above was 43 percent, compared to 24 percent among general U.S. population.

The average annual personal income of African immigrants was about $26,000, nearly $2,000 higher than that of American-born workers.​
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

I'm not blaming the victim. I'm saying that nobody needs your help to improve themselves.

It doesn't have much to do with improving oneself. Blacks who are equally qualified to whites are the ones we're talking about. People who have already improved themselves and are still facing overwhelming discrimination.

Wal-Mart, Lowes, Harbor Freight, K-Mart, Autozone, those are the low paying jobs off the top of my head within 15 minutes of me that take their applications online.

Not sure what your point is. The study looked at jobs where you drop the resume off in person. Obviously at K-Mart or wherever, they see what race you are when they interview you, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

You presented no evidence that there is massive discrimination.

Again, if a white person and a black person apply for the same job with the same resume, the white applicant is 2.4 times more likely to get an interview. Think about that. Imagine that 3/5 of the jobs you've gotten in your life you didn't get. Where would you be today? On welfare? A criminal? That is MASSIVE discrimination. Almost incomprehensibly massive. And it comes from an ultra credible study. It was done first by Northwestern University, then repeated by an entirely different group in a different city with the same results. The second time it was conducted by Princeton and Brown universities with Harvard and the National Science Foundation providing support. I frankly can't imagine what could possibly be more credible proof.

But, again, if you think you have superior evidence, lets see it. But if you have nothing, then maybe you need to rethink your assumptions.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

There is no victim. There is a control group which we can use to test the hypothesis that skin color is the factor which is responsible for differing outcomes.

What the hell are you talking about? Of course there are victims. Families that don't have enough to eat. Kids who have to drop out of school to work to support their siblings. Lives destroyed. The average black household has less than 7% as much wealth as the average white household. No victims? What the hell are you talking about?

Immigrants from Africa are black, in fact many are blacker than African Americans. How are they doing?

No really a huge shocker. The vast majority of people we let into the US from Africa get in either on employer visas or through demonstrating that they have valuable skills. No shocker a sample that is hand picked beats a random sample.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

It was Northern legislators from both political parties and President LBJ who pushed for it to get the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed.

"In late November 1963 the assassination of John F. Kennedy changed the political situation. The new president, Lyndon Johnson, utilized his experience in legislative politics and the bully pulpit he wielded as president in support of the bill. In his first address to Congress on November 27, 1963, Johnson told the legislators, "No memorial oration or eulogy could more eloquently honor President Kennedy's memory than the earliest possible passage of the civil rights bill for which he fought so long."


Civil Rights Act of 1964 - Johnson and passage Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By party and region

Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.

The original House version:

Southern Democrats: 7–87 (7%–93%)
Southern Republicans: 0–10 (0%–100%)
Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94%–6%)
Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85%–15%)
The Senate version:

Southern Democrats: 1–20 (5%–95%)
Southern Republicans: 0–1 (0%–100%)
Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98%–2%)
Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84%–16%)

They had to figure out some way to insure that all those black folks would vote Democrat. It's why they created Section 5, so they could guarantee that there would be black members in Congress.

There's nothing more awesome than plantation voting districts.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

I still don't understand this arguement nor the need for it. Let's say there were elements of racism 45 years ago. Nobody will deny there was. How does that make racism somehow O.K. today? Especially by those in Congress yelling "racism" the loudest? How is it that we can accept this unless it's really not about racism?

Because sometimes, racism is cool; according to the Leftists.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

The vote was on North/South lines -- not party lines. But it was Johnson's pro-civil-rights stand, and Goldwater's anti-civil-rights stand that pushed the Southern Democrats into the Republican party.

Gee whiz! Where was Johnson from?
 
We should look up some white brotherhood sites. Something just gives me the idea we're going to hear some very similar arguments against the 'real racists'. It just blows my mind.

Well, whatcha waitin' for? Post a link.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

It's not about whether or not he fits into any stereotype. It is a question of how he could be completely oblivious to things that are part of every day life for every black person in the country... The reality is that people fabricate identities for online forums sometimes, so I don't automatically assume people are what they say they are. Who knows, he could really be black. But it seems like a longshot to me given that he appears to be under the impression that racial discrimination doesn't exist. If somebody on here claims to be from San Francisco, but then they make a series of impassioned posts about how earthquakes are a myth, I'll know they aren't from San Francisco too.

It's one of two things: 1) I'm not the one oblivious to reality, or 2) I just think like you think a black dude in the south should think.

he appears to be under the impression that racial discrimination doesn't exist.

Neeeeeeeever said that it doesn't exist. Wanna try again at having an actual conversation, or are you going to keep assuming that I don't think, "black enough", to suit your stereotype of black people?

You never once asked me if I have been discriminated against. Wanna back up a step, or two and see where the conversation goes? Probably not, huh?
 
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Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

The post that I was reacting to was this one:



Later though he did say that racial discrimination will always exist or something to that effect. Perhaps he just misspoke the first time, I don't know.

I didn't mis-speak. It's that you don't have a clue about what I was saying. Do you think you've never been discriminated against? If you do, then you need to wake up and smell the coffee.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

No, don't be stupid. The south, which was predominantly democratic, has over the years become predominantly republican. And it was primarily southern legislators who opposed the civil rights act. Ergo....

Only in the last few years has the South stopped being dominated by Democrats.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

What the hell are you talking about? Of course there are victims. Families that don't have enough to eat. Kids who have to drop out of school to work to support their siblings. Lives destroyed. The average black household has less than 7% as much wealth as the average white household. No victims? What the hell are you talking about?

There is greater income variation within the black community than there is between the black and white demographics. Why are you focusing on the smaller variance and ignoring the larger income variance?

No really a huge shocker. The vast majority of people we let into the US from Africa get in either on employer visas or through demonstrating that they have valuable skills. No shocker a sample that is hand picked beats a random sample.

Hundreds of thousands of black immigrants are "hand picked" are they? Colin Powell, the child of Jamaican immigrants was hand picked I suppose.


While about 8 percent, or about 530, of Harvard's undergraduates were black, Lani Guinier, a Harvard law professor, and Henry Louis Gates Jr., the chairman of Harvard's African and African-American studies department, pointed out that the majority of them — perhaps as many as two-thirds — were West Indian and African immigrants or their children, or to a lesser extent, children of biracial couples.​
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

I didn't mis-speak. It's that you don't have a clue about what I was saying. Do you think you've never been discriminated against? If you do, then you need to wake up and smell the coffee.

On balance is the job market biased in favor of blacks, against blacks, or neutral towards blacks?
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

There is greater income variation within the black community than there is between the black and white demographics. Why are you focusing on the smaller variance and ignoring the larger income variance?

I spend plenty of time focusing on the rich/poor gap generally. Probably more time than I spend focusing on the racial economic inequality issue. But 7%? On average? For an entire race? That's a HUUUUGE issue. White kids are born, on average, into a household with 14 times as much wealth. No way we can just ignore that like nothing happened. Not when it is combined with the massive and ongoing racial employment discrimination.

Hundreds of thousands of black immigrants are "hand picked" are they? Colin Powell, the child of Jamaican immigrants was hand picked I suppose.

It seems that you don't have a counter argument on this? The selection effect argument beats this claim unless you have a counter argument to it.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

On balance is the job market biased in favor of blacks, against blacks, or neutral towards blacks?

Just one point....

When a person is given an office or position higher than the skills and experience merit, simply because of the gender, race or some other political factor, it does a disservice not only to the office and the constituents who depend on the person to do a good job. It is also a disservice to the individual because it sets them up for a failure. And that failure will have a backlash against all members of their group, race, gender, etc.

What will be the effect on Black politicians and political hopes, Obama - the dismal failure? How well received will be the next Black candidate, even if he actually has the experience and skills to do the job? He/she'll have to overcome the legacy left by their predecessor and that could take decades.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

On balance is the job market biased in favor of blacks, against blacks, or neutral towards blacks?

None of the above. There are people who won't hire a person because he is black; there are people that will hire a person because he is black; there are people that will hire a black person because he is qualified.

Ultimately, it's up to that black person to keep his job. If he acts like an asshole at work, then he's going to be treated like an asshole at work.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Just one point....

When a person is given an office or position higher than the skills and experience merit, simply because of the gender, race or some other political factor, it does a disservice not only to the office and the constituents who depend on the person to do a good job. It is also a disservice to the individual because it sets them up for a failure. And that failure will have a backlash against all members of their group, race, gender, etc.

What will be the effect on Black politicians and political hopes, Obama - the dismal failure? How well received will be the next Black candidate, even if he actually has the experience and skills to do the job? He/she'll have to overcome the legacy left by their predecessor and that could take decades.

Look at Sheila Jackson Lee, Maxine Waters and Bobby Rush. Those retards think Castro is a great guy. Or, Charlie Rangel and William Jefferson; they're ****ing crooks. People like that make us look like idiots.

With those clowns in Congress, it's no surprise that racism exists.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Just one point....

When a person is given an office or position higher than the skills and experience merit, simply because of the gender, race or some other political factor, it does a disservice not only to the office and the constituents who depend on the person to do a good job. It is also a disservice to the individual because it sets them up for a failure. And that failure will have a backlash against all members of their group, race, gender, etc.

It is illegal to give a less qualified person a job because of their race. In the small number of jobs where AA applies (government contractors and government jobs) all it says is that if the organization chooses to, they are permitted to hire an equally qualified applicant based on their race.

Besides, in the economy as a whole whites are the ones getting jobs they're less qualified for. If a white person and black person apply for the same job with exactly the same resume, the white person gets the interview 2.4 times more often. Your analysis seems to be predicated on the assumption that it is the other way around, which is objectively false. So if this were an issue, it would be an issue that whites are getting jobs they aren't ready for, not blacks...

What will be the effect on Black politicians and political hopes, Obama - the dismal failure? How well received will be the next Black candidate, even if he actually has the experience and skills to do the job? He/she'll have to overcome the legacy left by their predecessor and that could take decades.

Bush ended his second term with an approval rating about 20% below where Obama is currently, so if you consider Obama a "dismal failure", then Bush must have been an incredibly massive mega failure with a cherry on top, right? Are you concerned that people will be unwilling to vote for another white candidate in the future because of his failure?
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Look at Sheila Jackson Lee, Maxine Waters and Bobby Rush. Those retards think Castro is a great guy. Or, Charlie Rangel and William Jefferson; they're ****ing crooks. People like that make us look like idiots.

With those clowns in Congress, it's no surprise that racism exists.

Can't Rangel be a crook and an idiot without pointing out the fact he's black...

Doesn't really matter to me what the colour of his skin is... more the content of his character.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

None of the above. There are people who won't hire a person because he is black; there are people that will hire a person because he is black; there are people that will hire a black person because he is qualified.

Ultimately, it's up to that black person to keep his job. If he acts like an asshole at work, then he's going to be treated like an asshole at work.

Again, overall, is the job market biased in favor of blacks, against blacks, or neutral on race?
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

I spend plenty of time focusing on the rich/poor gap generally. Probably more time than I spend focusing on the racial economic inequality issue. But 7%? On average? For an entire race? That's a HUUUUGE issue. White kids are born, on average, into a household with 14 times as much wealth. No way we can just ignore that like nothing happened. Not when it is combined with the massive and ongoing racial employment discrimination.

That's not society's problem to fix. The evidence shows that there is no wage discrimination taking place when intelligence is controlled for. Wealth is accumulated by spending less that one earns and either saving or investing that capital. If black families are spending more and saving/investing less, then that's not society's fault.

Compare African American incomes to those of Vietnamese Americans. The Vietnamese came here penniless, many of them were boat people, they lived in refugee camps after the fall of Vietnam, they arrived here at a time when many people, especially veterans, had hard feelings about the war and the lives that were lost to the Vietnamese communists, they didn't speak the language, and many were suffering from severe trauma from being run out of their country, from witnessing war their entire lives, from suffering the depredations of being a refugee. Far, far worse than what African Americans have to face in a land where they are given preferences in various aspects of life, where they know the language, where people are eager to help them, etc.

Vietnamese
Household Income (1999) = $45,805
American Household Income (1999) = $41,994
African American Household Income (1999) = $29,423

The playing field is leveled. That's good enough. Everyone has equal opportunity. Quit crying.
 
Isn't about time we moved past such vile, angry bull****?

Oh wait, I can't say that about the esteemed Rep. Carson, to criticize him, since I am a white male and tea partier, is racist.

Just reading that filthy dung heaps rant makes my stomach churn in disgust.

There are plenty of valid reasons to be appalled by the tea party. It seems a little crazy to me to focus on the trumped up reasons.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Can't Rangel be a crook and an idiot without pointing out the fact he's black...

Doesn't really matter to me what the colour of his skin is... more the content of his character.

Except when it comes to criticizing a black person's behavior; then, it's racism.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

Again, overall, is the job market biased in favor of blacks, against blacks, or neutral on race?

None of the above, as I said already.
 
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