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Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree'

Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

teamosil said:
Sadly, that just is not true. In fact, if a white person and a black person apply for exactly the same job with exactly the same resume, the white person is 2.4 times more likely to get called back for an interview. As a whole the system is still overwhelmingly biased against black people and in favor of white people.

Discrimination in a Low-Wage Labor Market: A Field Experiment by Devah Pager, Bruce Western, Bart Bonikowski :: SSRN
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I dont disagree that some people remain racist. Thats not ever going to change. A small business owner is likely to discriminate based on that persons world view. What do you think the results of that study would be if they sent those same applicants into black and hispanic owned small businesses?
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

teamosil said:
What race are you?
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I'm black.



Uh, so you're just anti-knowledge flat out? Pro-stupidity? Really?
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I'm pro-real-world-experience, actually.



Again, all that differs between the applicants is the color of their skin. They have the same resume- so as far as the employer knows, they have the same work ethic and attitude. So I guess your theory is wrong.
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You have no way of knowing that to be a fact.

Like I say, these studies are bull****.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

apdst said:
I'm black.
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I'm just going to go ahead and say that I don't believe you.

apdst said:
I'm pro-real-world-experience, actually.
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So, you think we should just make conclusions about how the world is based on our own subjective perceptions of events we personally encounter rather than employing large samples and scientific methodology. Why? Isn't that like 1,000 times more likely to give you an incorrect answer?

apdst said:
You have no way of knowing that to be a fact.

Like I say, these studies are bull****.
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What are you talking about? This study was completed twice by two different groups in two different cities. The first time it was Northwestern University. The second time it was Princeton and Brown Universities conducting it with backing from Harvard and the National Science Foundation. Are you contending that they are falsifying their results? What basis do you have for that extraordinary accusation?
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

apdst said:
I'm black.
I'm pro-real-world-experience, actually.
You have no way of knowing that to be a fact.
Like I say, these studies are bull****.
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Go to any non-union construction site and see if you can find a trend in low skilled workers on the site. My guess is you will see a larger than average representation of hispanic males. Why? By reputation primarily built by others they will work for less, will work harder, will be more reliable on the job site, will bitch and whine less than their non-hispanic contemporaries. Just because people have a bias, doesnt always make that bias necessarily wrong. And sure...some people have to fight against a stereotype...but if they are really pissed off about it, they ought to maybe get upset with those that reinforce the stereotype in the first place.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

VanceMack said:
I dont disagree that some people remain racist. Thats not ever going to change. A small business owner is likely to discriminate based on that persons world view. What do you think the results of that study would be if they sent those same applicants into black and hispanic owned small businesses?
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My guess would be that they would still find discrimination against blacks and hispanics. This study didn't look at that question specifically, but other studies have found racism against blacks and hispanics to be just about equally common amongst blacks and hispanics as amongst whites.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

teamosil said:
I'm just going to go ahead and say that I don't believe you.
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Thats right apdst...you CANT be black. You dont fit his stereotype of black people.

Unnnnnnn****ingbelievable...
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

teamosil said:
I'm just going to go ahead and say that I don't believe you.
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Of course you don't. Us niggers are only capable of thinking the way that white Liberals tell us to think. Right?



So, you think we should just make conclusions about how the world is based on our own subjective perceptions of events we personally encounter rather than employing large samples and scientific methodology. Why? Isn't that like 1,000 times more likely to give you an incorrect answer?



What are you talking about? This study was completed twice by two different groups in two different cities. The first time it was Northwestern University. The second time it was Princeton and Brown Universities conducting it with backing from Harvard and the National Science Foundation. Are you contending that they are falsifying their results? What basis do you have for that extraordinary accusation?
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So, what kind of work do you do? Do you even have a job?
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

VanceMack said:
Thats right apdst...you CANT be black. You dont fit his stereotype of black people.

Unnnnnnn****ingbelievable...
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Look at the bright side; he didn't call me Uncle Tom. :rofl
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

apdst said:
I'm pro-real-world-experience, actually.
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So does that mean you respect the real world experiences of other people who have witnessed such job discrimination or are you only pro-"my experiences are the only 'real' experiences so anything that contradicts my experiences is BS"?
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

teamosil said:
My guess would be that they would still find discrimination against blacks and hispanics. This study didn't look at that question specifically, but other studies have found racism against blacks and hispanics to be just about equally common amongst blacks and hispanics as amongst whites.
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Dont go into many minority owned businesses...do ya? But lets say you were right...lets say blacks were still discriminated against...by blacks. What would that tell you?
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

apdst said:
Look at the bright side; he didn't call me Uncle Tom. :rofl
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Nah...you have to be a 'partial' black like Hatuey to get away with calling blacks derogatory terms on this site.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

theplaydrive said:
So does that mean you respect the real world experiences of other people who have witnessed such job discrimination or are you only pro-"my experiences are the only 'real' experiences so anything that contradicts my experiences is BS"?
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What kind of work do you do?
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

apdst said:
Wait, what? The history of which party?

Oh my! This is going to another one of those awesome moments.
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I said the Republican Party. Can you read?
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

apdst said:
Of course you don't. Us niggers are only capable of thinking the way that white Liberals tell us to think. Right?
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Of course black people are capable of having any kinds of views, but, sadly, there is no way in the US for a black person to isolate themselves from racial discrimination to the extent where they don't think it exists. Generally only rural, less educated, white people can pull that off.

apdst said:
So, what kind of work do you do? Do you even have a job?
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Not at present. I used to manage teams of developers in software companies, but I got sick of that and went to law school.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

VanceMack said:
Nah...you have to be a 'partial' black like Hatuey to get away with calling blacks derogatory terms on this site.
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Since I'm not, "black", he can't call me Uncle Tom. Right? :rofl

maybe colored would fit his stereotype better?

And people wonder why I don't like Libbos.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

theplaydrive said:
Answer my question.
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Do all the black people at your job make less than you do?
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

apdst said:
Do all the black people at your job make less than you do?
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Answer my question.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

teamosil said:
Of course black people are capable of having any kinds of views, but, sadly, there is no way in the US for a black person to isolate themselves from racial discrimination to the extent where they don't think it exists. Generally only rural, less educated, white people can pull that off.

Not at present. I used to manage teams of developers in software companies, but I got sick of that and went to law school.
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Unless of course that black person were to work in the federal government or to be enlisted in the military.

Your software developers...did they refuse a lot of qualified black candidates and give preferential treatment to white candidates?
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

VanceMack said:
Dont go into many minority owned businesses...do ya?
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I doubt that as many white applicants apply for black or hispanic owned businesses. Trying to guesstimate this kind of thing based on individual experiences is like trying to figure out the distance to the moon by eyeballing it.

That said, I'm mostly just speculating based on studies in other areas that have found equal discrimination. For example, black cops discriminate against black suspects just as much as white cops do. I don't know of an employment discrimination study that addresses that question.

VanceMack said:
But lets say you were right...lets say blacks were still discriminated against...by blacks. What would that tell you?
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That would tell me that racism gets internalized. But everybody already knew that.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

teamosil said:
I doubt that as many white applicants apply for black or hispanic owned businesses. Trying to guesstimate this kind of thing based on individual experiences is like trying to figure out the distance to the moon by eyeballing it.

That said, I'm mostly just speculating based on studies in other areas that have found equal discrimination. For example, black cops discriminate against black suspects just as much as white cops do. I don't know of an employment discrimination study that addresses that question.



That would tell me that racism gets internalized. But everybody already knew that.
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That should tell you something about the black suspects.
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

teamosil said:
I doubt that as many white applicants apply for black or hispanic owned businesses. Trying to guesstimate this kind of thing based on individual experiences is like trying to figure out the distance to the moon by eyeballing it.

That said, I'm mostly just speculating based on studies in other areas that have found equal discrimination. For example, black cops discriminate against black suspects just as much as white cops do. I don't know of an employment discrimination study that addresses that question.
That would tell me that racism gets internalized. But everybody already knew that.
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It might tell you something else...but it may not be something you want to admit. It MIGHT tell you that there is a reason for that discrimination and that reason MAY have something to do with the significant numbers (but still a minority) within that discriminated group that has created a negative hiring environment for other qualified individuals within the same racial group. Where a black employer is more likely to hire a white employee, it MIGHT not mean that employer is an institutionalized racist, but that in fact the employer might have negative experiences with other employees and be disinclined to hire another black applicant based on prior experiences.

I still think you are wrong though. I think you will find that a majority of minority owned businesses hire far more within their race. And thats not a BAD thing.

Heres another observation...I was in Chicago recently...damn near every store in downtown Chicago was manned by immigrant employees. Why do you suppose that is? (not laying a trap...I'll tell you my thoughts...it is because employer experience has shown that immigrants are willing to bust their ass, do a good job, because they value the job more than a typical American apllicant).
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

AdamT said:
To the extent that we do (and of course it isn't always true that Asians and women receive affirmative action) it's because affirmative action is about redressing the effects of discrmination, generally -- not just discrimination against blacks.


"2.) How is someone born 46 years after Jim Crow ended disadvantaged by what happened nearly half a century ago?"


The effects of systematic discrimination against an entire race do not disappear with the stroke of a pen.



I would tell a newly arrived Polish immigrant that he could have stayed in Poland if he wasn't happy with our policies.



Not sure what you mean by that.
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Why do you refer to the Jim Crow laws and say it was discrimination against an entire race when the laws were only enacted in the southern states? Do you think every black in the country lived in the south?
 
Re: Andre Carson: Tea party wants blacks 'hanging on a tree' Read more: http://www.p

VanceMack said:
Unless of course that black person were to work in the federal government or to be enlisted in the military.
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Even if a person works in an environment where they are not discriminated against- which of course there are many of- they still live in the world. It would be impossible to be oblivious to it. Frankly even when a white person pretends they seriously are unaware of racial discrimination I find that very, very, hard to believe, but a black person that is unaware of it? No way.

VanceMack said:
Your software developers...did they refuse a lot of qualified black candidates and give preferential treatment to white candidates?
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Yes. I've participated in somewhere around 100 hiring committees over the years. Out of those maybe 6 candidates have been black. Every single one of those times, at least one person on the committee said something along the lines of "I just don't think they'd fit into the corporate culture" or had "concerns about professionalism" or similar. I don't think I remember either of those "issues" being raised about a white applicant ever. I doubt the people reacting that way are conscious of how the applicant's race is affecting their perception of the applicant. Probably conscious racial discrimination is very rare in all types of jobs, but the scientific studies of the question have all found that it occurs nonetheless. Hiring is extraordinarily subjective. For example, height turns out to be a huge factor in hiring decisions, although obviously nobody consciously thinks "I want to hire this applicant over the others because he is taller". Same deal with race.
 
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