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Burglar's family awarded $300,000 in wrongful death suit

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AdamT said:
I'm pretty sure I already answered that question, but in any case.... It's a dumb question. The guy who shot the burglar to death is more at fault. In the law biz this is what's known as an intervening cause. The harm within the risk of committing burglary is that you might get caught and go to jail for a few years. You might even say that a harm within the cause is getting shot in some circumstances (burgling an occupied residence at night, for example). But getting shot through a door in broad daylight is not a proximate cause of petty burglarly.
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thanks for proving to us all that you in fact do live in fantasy world

everything above is nothing more than opinion that you havent been able to back up one bit.

Nobody honesty, logical and rational blames the shooter more than the idiot dad.

How do you explain/ignore away the 100s of choices/facts the DAD mad to get himself shot

having a kid he cant support
doing drugs
being an addict
deciding to arm himself and be a thief
deciding to get caught trespassing and stealing while high and armed?
breaking into others property while armed etc etc

LOL what a total joke. At least I i know know you are just being dishonesty or just arguing for fun because nobody logical could honestly give your answer. :shrug:

LMAO at its more the shooters fault then the dead beat, drug using, robbing, breaking and entering, trespassing, high on drugs and armed dads.:laughat:
 
Not at all. He was armed. The people defending themselves and their property had no way of knowing his intentions.
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But they did know that they weren't really at risk, given the fact that the guy was holed up in a shed and they had guns pointed at the shed.


I would have shot him.
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Why?

It's more tragic to me that people feel sorry for a drug addict, thieving scum.
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Why is it tragic that people feel for someone who was killed unnecessarily, and for his family? Do you think we should have the death penalty for burglary? How do you know the guy wouldn't have pulled himself together? Maybe he would have gone to jail and gotten clean. Maybe he would have gotten a decent job and been a father to his daughter. We'll never know these guys took the law into their own hands and executed him.
 
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AdamT said:
As a rule defendants do not testify on their own behalf anyway. Presumably the evidence would show a bullet hole through the closet door and blood inside the closet, and that would probably do the trick.
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What I was asking is what you'd do if you were the "lucky" public defender who got assigned to a case where two shots through the closet door before dragging him out and shooting him in the head. Especially when the suspect refused to talk to you or the police.
 
Ikari said:
Yes, but they are presumed INNOCENT until proven guilty in a court of law.
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oops :ssst: that's gonna leave a mark..... what say you now Mr. Matlock?
 
Ikari said:
It certainly is a possible outcome, as demonstrated here. If you break into someone's house or property, there is always a chance you'll get shot for your efforts.
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this is just pure common sense but it seems wasted on this poster
 
Centrist77 said:
thanks for proving to us all that you in fact do live in fantasy world

everything above is nothing more than opinion that you havent been able to back up one bit.

Nobody honesty, logical and rational blames the shooter more than the idiot dad.

How do you explain/ignore away the 100s of choices/facts the DAD mad to get himself shot

having a kid he cant support
doing drugs
being an addict
deciding to arm himself and be a thief
deciding to get caught trespassing and stealing while high and armed?
breaking into others property while armed etc etc

LOL what a total joke. At least I i know know you are just being dishonesty or just arguing for fun because nobody logical could honestly give your answer. :shrug:

LMAO at its more the shooters fault then the dead beat, drug using, robbing, breaking and entering, trespassing, high on drugs and armed dads.:laughat:
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No one is excusing the burglar's actions. But his actions did not warrant execution. Pure and simple. The guy was 20 years old. A kid. He deserved to go to prison for burglary -- not get shot through the heart.
 
AdamT said:
Why is it tragic that people feel someone who was killed unnecessarily? Do you think we should have the death penalty for burglary? How do you know the guy wouldn't have pulled himself together? Maybe he would have gone to jail and gotten clean. Maybe he would have gotten a decent job and been a father to his daughter. We'll never know these guys took the law into their own hands and executed him.
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We will never know. The man made a choice, took an action, and faced one of the rational probabilities of said action. He may have "gone clean", but instead he broke into the wrong person's property. Those people are not in jail, just out some money.
 
The burglar succeeded.
 
Tigger said:
What I was asking is what you'd do if you were the "lucky" public defender who got assigned to a case where two shots through the closet door before dragging him out and shooting him in the head. Especially when the suspect refused to talk to you or the police.
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I would argue, most probably unsuccesfully, that it was self defense.
 
AdamT said:
But they did know that they weren't really at risk, given the fact that the guy was holed up in a shed and they had guns pointed at the shed.




Why?



Why is it tragic that people feel someone who was killed unnecessarily? Do you think we should have the death penalty for burglary? How do you know the guy wouldn't have pulled himself together? Maybe he would have gone to jail and gotten clean. Maybe he would have gotten a decent job and been a father to his daughter. We'll never know these guys took the law into their own hands and executed him.
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Because I take no chances when my family's life or livelihood is at risk.

I do believe that people should be able to use deadly force when defending themselves as well as their property. I can't know whether or not the armed thief breaking into my home or place of business will at some point in the future change his life for the better, nor is that my problem. At some point, when society can no longer function as it is, many more people will share my sentiments. Even those who are outraged by it now. For many people, their businesses and their property represent their livelihood, and a threat to that may as well be a threat to their own lives. Besides, the man was armed with more than one weapon. He wasn't exactly harmless.
 
OscarB63 said:
oops :ssst: that's gonna leave a mark..... what say you now Mr. Matlock?
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Of course, from a legal standpoint they are not guilty. That doesn't mean that they aren't guilty IN REALITY.
 
AdamT said:
But they did know that they weren't really at risk, given the fact that the guy was holed up in a shed and they had guns pointed at the shed.
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you have no idea what they did, or did not "know". I wish I had a dollar for every time I was outside a room with my gun pointed at the door and didn't know anything except that there was someone inside


Why is it tragic that people feel someone who was killed unnecessarily?
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some things just need killing. these guys should get a medal for filtering this turd from the genepool

How do you know the guy wouldn't have pulled himself together?
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how many methheads have you ever met that did?

Maybe he would have gone to jail and gotten clean.
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maybe he would've sprouted wings out his ass and flown to the moon

Maybe he would have gotten a decent job and been a father to his daughter.
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more likely he would have abused her himself or sold her sexually to one of his buddies for drug money.
 
AdamT said:
Of course, from a legal standpoint they are not guilty. That doesn't mean that they aren't guilty IN REALITY.
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Given in many cases lack of absolute knowledge in criminal cases; the courts are not designed to determine that. Many people think OJ or Casey Anthony are guilty in reality; but the courts could not speak to that reality. They can only speak to the evidence brought forth.
 
AdamT said:
Of course, from a legal standpoint they are not guilty. That doesn't mean that they aren't guilty IN REALITY.
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and it doesn't mean they are. again...that's just your OPINION. please look it up.
 
AdamT said:
No one is excusing the burglar's actions. But his actions did not warrant execution. Pure and simple. The guy was 20 years old. A kid. He deserved to go to prison for burglary -- not get shot through the heart.
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execution? YOUR OPINION
deserve not to get shot? YOUR OPINIOIN

and this still has NOTHING to do with the REAL question instead of you trying to spin

the fact is theres a little girl out there today without a father because a father CHOOSE to be a drug addict criminal and arm himself to break into places in which those degenerate choices got him shot and killed.

Its the FATHERS fault for being an idiot, its a FACT that breaking into a place armed and high with the MINIMUM intent to steal can get you killed.

The father is at fault. If he doesnt choose to do the above he doesnt get killed.He was an idiot.
 
evanescence said:
Because I take no chances when my family's life or livelihood is at risk.

I do believe that people should be able to use deadly force when defending themselves as well as their property. I can't know whether or not the armed thief breaking into my home or place of business will at some point in the future change his life for the better, nor is that my problem. At some point, when society can no longer function as it is, many more people will share my sentiments. Even those who are outraged by it now. For many people, their businesses and their property represent their livelihood, and a threat to that may as well be a threat to their own lives. Besides, the man was armed with more than one weapon. He wasn't exactly harmless.
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The point is that there's no risk from not shooting the guy through the closet. You call the cops and they'll be there in five minutes. In the meantime you say, "if I see that door move your dead", or whatever.
 
OscarB63 said:
and it doesn't mean they are. again...that's just your OPINION. please look it up.
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It's a fact that they shot the guy through a door. That's a fact.
 
AdamT said:
Of course, from a legal standpoint they are not guilty. That doesn't mean that they aren't guilty IN REALITY.
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IN REALITY? What reality would that be? Because I prefer the one where people aren't pretending to live in fairyland. This is an ugly world, and guess what? Most of the time, we are alone and must defend ourselves. The police don't always get there in time. In countries and in cities where not owning a gun is illegal, the crime rates are much lower. Fact. If thieves knew the population was armed and meant business, there wouldn't be as much thieving.
 
AdamT said:
It's a fact that they shot the guy through a door. That's a fact.
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wow, you finally got ONE right. maybe there is hope for you yet.

I once shot an "insurgent" through a freakin concrete wall with a 50 caliber machine gun. am I a murderer? maybe he only had a knife, maybe he was on his way to evening prayer, or just maybe he was a terrorist scumbag. :shrug:
 
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Centrist77 said:
execution? YOUR OPINION
deserve not to get shot? YOUR OPINIOIN

and this still has NOTHING to do with the REAL question instead of you trying to spin

the fact is theres a little girl out there today without a father because a father CHOOSE to be a drug addict criminal and arm himself to break into places in which those degenerate choices got him shot and killed.

Its the FATHERS fault for being an idiot, its a FACT that breaking into a place armed and high with the MINIMUM intent to steal can get you killed.

The father is at fault. If he doesnt choose to do the above he doesnt get killed.He was an idiot.
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The fact that the guy was a drug addict and burglar was not why he was shot. This is like saying that, if you're going down the highway and exceeding the speed limit by 10mph, and you get T-boned by a drunk driver, it's not the drunk driver's fault. It's yours for exceeding the speed limit.
 
AdamT said:
The point is that there's no risk from not shooting the guy through the closet. You call the cops and they'll be there in five minutes. In the meantime you say, "if I see that door move your dead", or whatever.
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How do you know? How do you know that the guy in the closet doesn't have a weapon and that he just needed time to get it out and had to run while he could free it? How do you KNOW that he is no longer a threat? You've used HINDSIGHT to show that they were not a threat at the time; but hindsight is never known in advance (hence the name HINDSIGHT). If he runs into the closet, what guarantee do you have that he doesn't have the gun, that he isn't going to pop out shooting? He's already made the decision to break into your home, to steal your stuff; what else is he capable of? You DON'T KNOW. This is some drugged up stranger breaking into your place and stealing your stuff, you have NO guarantee that he can't or won't escalate the confrontation.
 
evanescence said:
IN REALITY? What reality would that be? Because I prefer the one where people aren't pretending to live in fairyland. This is an ugly world, and guess what? Most of the time, we are alone and must defend ourselves. The police don't always get there in time. In countries and in cities where not owning a gun is illegal, the crime rates are much lower. Fact. If thieves knew the population was armed and meant business, there wouldn't be as much thieving.
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Sure, those things happen, and I have no problem with someone acting in self defense when it is justified.
 
AdamT said:
Sure, those things happen, and I have no problem with someone acting in self defense when it is justified.
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But apparently "justified" to you means to wait until he starts shooting at you first.
 
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