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Senator: F-16 deal with Taiwan might bypass Obama

1Perry said:
Of course not but if someone comes knocking wanting to buy our products, we sell it to them. China would do the same. If Iran asks China for planes or nuclear technology, China is going to sell it to them. (or just give it to them).
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That's because those two have relatively healthy trade and diplomatic relations, and are not adversaries in the arena of global politics. Are you saying that if AQ knocked on our door asking for nuclear technology or fissile material, we should sell it to them?
 
Hicup said:
We're going to "get in it" with China eventually, and anyone that doesn't see that coming is fooling themselves. Sun Tzu would say, hit them when they're weak, not when they're strong.. :)


Tim-
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He would also say the battle best won is the battle not fought (it might be war instead of battle)

Another saying is that is it a poor leader that has to resort to fighting

China has absolutely no strategic interests in attacking the US. Provided China is not prevented from buying materials on the open market through a US enforced blockade or embargo China will not have any interests served by attacking the US. The only possible exception would be in an attack on Taiwan, which would not be an attack to hurt the US but to gain control over what China considers to be part of China.
 
rocket88 said:
China does not want to go to war with their best customer, and they don't want to destroy someone that owes them as much money as we do. Think about it for a second: they destroy the US, nobody buys their cheap crap, and they lose on their investments.

They're not idiots.
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You're thinking like a western capitalist. Yes, they may share some of our values and motivations, but it is a trap to think that because we wouldn't go to war (with our mode of thinking and motivations) in their situation, they won't either.

How naïve are you?
 
xpiher said:
So you aren't for free trade?
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With the wood stuck in our ass - no

The Chinese have no qualms about using state sponsored intelligence agencies to steal trade secrets for their own industries; they have no qualms about state-sponsored cyber-terrorism, either.
 
ludahai said:
China has no legal rights to Taiwan and it is clear that Taiwan's people want nothing to do with political union with China.
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If China has no legal rights to Taiwan, then Taiwan has no legal right to China and Mongolia. Yet, they still claim all of the Chinese mainland and a big chunk of Mongolia. Oh, and Taiwan too. They want unification, they just want it their way.
 
ric27 said:
You're thinking like a western capitalist. Yes, they may share some of our values and motivations, but it is a trap to think that because we wouldn't go to war (with our mode of thinking and motivations) in their situation, they won't either.

How naïve are you?
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So the gold plated Infinitis (yes, they have them) and economic growth are just a grand ruse? :lamo
 
ric27 said:
The Chinese have no qualms about using state sponsored intelligence agencies to steal trade secrets for their own industries; they have no qualms about state-sponsored cyber-terrorism, either.
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Neither do the Israelis. We still deal with them.
 
StillBallin75 said:
That's because those two have relatively healthy trade and diplomatic relations, and are not adversaries in the arena of global politics. Are you saying that if AQ knocked on our door asking for nuclear technology or fissile material, we should sell it to them?
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Nope, but we shouldn't allow China to dictate to us who we will or won't sell to.
 
1Perry said:
Nope, but we shouldn't allow China to dictate to us who we will or won't sell to.
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I agree, only the politically incompetent would do that.
 
ric27 said:
You're thinking like a western capitalist. Yes, they may share some of our values and motivations, but it is a trap to think that because we wouldn't go to war (with our mode of thinking and motivations) in their situation, they won't either.

How naïve are you?
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Of course, ric can think like those inscrutable, blood-thirsty Chinese. :lol:
 
1Perry said:
Nope, but we shouldn't allow China to dictate to us who we will or won't sell to.
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I agree. My point is though, that Taiwan is an ally, and that is why we sell to them. We don't sell to just anyone simply because they might be interested in our product.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1059756482 said:
I agree, only the politically incompetent would do that.
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So when the US did not sell military equipment to Taiwan in 2001 and 2006 due to Chinese pressure, it was due to political incompetence?
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
So when the US did not sell military equipment to Taiwan in 2001 and 2006 due to Chinese pressure, it was due to political incompetence?
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Yeah people seem to be under the impression that pissing off one of your largest creditors is a GOOD THING.

Just like everyone who's railing about this goes to the bank, and pisses on their loan consultants desk after taking out a line of credit :lol:
 
ludahai said:
Taiwan wants to BUY the weapons, not accept them as a gift. If you think supporting the U.S.'s allies in this region is not in the long-term interest of the United States, you have a serious case of ostrich-syndrome...
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So we're arms dealers now? Supporting allies? What the hell has Taiwan ever done for us? The only reason we're concerned is that they can get us in trouble with China. Allies, bah! That street goes two ways, and we don't get **** from Taiwan. Hell, all our companies out source to China proper; we don't even get slave labor from Taiwan.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Yeah people seem to be under the impression that pissing off one of your largest creditors is a GOOD THING.

Just like everyone who's railing about this goes to the bank, and pisses on their loan consultants desk after taking out a line of credit :lol:
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The problem is not that we piss off a creditor. It's that we owe them money in the first place.
 
1Perry said:
The problem is not that we piss off a creditor. It's that we owe them money in the first place.
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We can agree on that 1Perry... but that doesn't change the reality of the situation and the fact of the relationship between the United States and China.

Suez Crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And just like what you guys did to Britain during the Suez Canal Crisis, in response to your disagreements on British and French involvement and the threat of soviet intervention, they could technically do the same thing...

The United States also put financial pressure on Great Britain to end the invasion. Because the Bank of England had lost $50 million (US) between 30 October and 2 November, and England's oil supply had been damaged by the closing of the Suez Canal, the British sought immediate assistance from the IMF, but it was denied by the United States. Eisenhower in fact ordered his Secretary of the Treasury, George M. Humphrey, to prepare to sell part of the US Government's Sterling Bond holdings. The US Government held these bonds in part to aid post war Britain’s economy (during the Cold War), and as partial payment of Britain’s enormous World War II debt to the US Government, American corporations, and individuals. It was also part of the overall effort of Marshall Plan aid, in the rebuilding of the Western European economies.

Britain's then Chancellor of the Exchequer, Harold Macmillan, advised his Prime Minister, Anthony Eden, that the United States was fully prepared to carry out this threat. He also warned his Prime Minister that Britain's foreign exchange reserves simply could not sustain the devaluation of the pound that would come after the United States' actions; and that within weeks of such a move, the country would be unable to import the food and energy supplies needed simply to sustain the population on the islands. However, there were suspicions in the Cabinet that Macmillan had deliberately overstated the financial situation in order to force Eden out. What Treasury officials had told Macmillan was far less serious than the version he told to the Cabinet.[299]

In concert with U.S. actions Saudi Arabia started an oil embargo against Britain and France. The U.S. refused to fill the gap until Britain and France agreed to a rapid withdrawal. The other NATO members refused to sell oil they received from Arab nations to Britain or France.[300]
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Ikari said:
Why? Taiwan should take care of itself. Do we really want to get in it with China over Taiwan?
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Well, yes you have a point, but where are they suppose to buy their weapons from?
 
ludahai said:
article



Few people think Obama will approve the sale. Congress has to check the President on this and ensure the sale goes ahead. With China continuing to moderinze its military, Taiwan needs a credible defense.
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I do not think we should sell,lease or give away military vehicles and weapons to any country. Friends and allies have a funny way of turning into enemies and then somewhere down the road use that stuff against us or give or sell those things to someone who will use those things against us.
 
Just hopping in at the end, I was under the impression that Obama pushed through a $6Bn arms deal last year or so? Or shall I say giveaway package of some sort.
 
American said:
Well, yes you have a point, but where are they suppose to buy their weapons from?
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Why do we need to sell weapons? It's a shady business being the arms dealer of the world..
 
Ikari said:
Why do we need to sell weapons?
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Profit for the companies that build them - like anythnig else.
The government is involved only because of the national security issue.
 
PzKfW IVe said:
Profit for the companies that build them - like anythnig else.
The government is involved only because of the national security issue.
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But we control weapon sales, companies cannot sell them on their own and defense companies already make a lot of money and enjoy quite a large amount of privilege due to their lot. This is not really a national security issue, well not OUR nation anyway. In fact, getting involved is more of a risk to our "national security" than not.
 
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