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China closer to matching modern militaries

samsmart said:
Why would they risk a war with us militarily when they're already taking us over economically?
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Again, It is a huge error to assume that other cultures and other nations have the same values

The perception that China is/was a 3rd world country and is inferior to the west pisses them off greatly (really pissed off) because, the Chinese consider their culture to be superior to all others. They maintain the old Chinese position that they are the center of the world and everyone else are barbarians especially, the US
 
samsmart said:
Just take a devil's advocate approach...

Do you have any graphs that shows China's spending on internal security?

As I understand it, China's security forces, such as the People's Armed Police, have very close ties to the PLA. The PAP may be a close analogue to the U.S. National Guard in that they are a gendarmerie that can use military equipment for domestic purposes. Because of the PRC's authoritarian nature, they may put more emphasis on the PAP than they do the PLA. So equipment made for the PAP may be dual-roled for use by the PLA in case they decide to act militarily.
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I don't, and to be fair, I think these estimates of China's military spending are very rough. They don't exactly publish their budgets in a federal register.
 
For all the war hawks.... war with China is not going to happen. They have the upper hand with us in almost every way. All they need to do is continue to sit there and let all the big businesses come to them.

Business and money controls the world right now, not government. The Chinese know this and their economic policy has been smart as a result.
 
Councilman said:
The way the USSR was kept in toe was that they feared overwhelming retaliation that would come from any attack.


This is why we must maintain our technological advances in our military's advances in all areas and go even farther to secure our secrecy.


With the exception of having a weak kneed person at the helm we are far and away ahead of all others in terms of ability.


Politicians have made us look weak because they have placed limits on our military when dealing with enemy forces.


When dealing with insurgents they only give up when they are dead, and we are too limited in ways to go after them. They use civilians as shields and we back off.. Civilians don't like the bad gut either but they fear them.


We have to convince the good people we are there to help them and if they point out the bad guys we will protect them. Then go about killing all the bad guys.
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Actually, I would argue that spreading out military too thin across so many theaters of war and having defense contracts spent on ****ty cheap shoddy services to bolster the profits of megacorporations or to provide jobs making unneeded and unwanted equipment at congressional districts so that Congressmen have an easier time getting re-elected has made the U.S. weaker than anything else you mentioned.
 
AdamT said:
I don't, and to be fair, I think these estimates of China's military spending are very rough. They don't exactly publish their budgets in a federal register.
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Not to mention it doesn't account for the fact that domestic procurment of materiel as well as salaries for military personnel are but a fraction of those in the US.
 
ric27 said:
They maintain the old Chinese position that they are the center of the world and everyone else are barbarians especially, the US
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You mean they don't believe in "American exceptionalism"? :shock:
 
ludahai said:
Not to mention it doesn't account for the fact that domestic procurment of materiel as well as salaries for military personnel are but a fraction of those in the US.
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Even so, I seriously doubt that the PRC as their government is currently would attempt to challenge outright the US on the battlefield.

If the PRC were to attack the US it would divert resources that they use to maintain their authoritarian government structure. Which means that in order to challenge the US they would have to engage in democratic reforms so they can free up their gendarmerie to fight soldiers, or at least to disable internal rebellion.

But if they imposed democratic reforms then it would be unlikely that the PRC would wage war against the US as I don't think the majority of the Chinese people would really want to fight the US unless the US gave the people of China a casus belli.

So, even so, I don't think we have much to worry about, especially considering how much the Chinese economy depends on the US consuming the goods they manufacture.
 
celticwar17 said:
China is going to become the next super power without a doubt.
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And what a great example of a world power. A heavy handed government which keeps its own people down for the proliferation of a few elite. Even we have Unions, even if some hate them. China wants to be all that, but in the end it's not something we should exalt.
 
Ikari said:
And what a great example of a world power. A heavy handed government which keeps its own people down for the proliferation of a few elite. Even we have Unions, even if some hate them. China wants to be all that, but in the end it's not something we should exalt.
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Actually, I think that China, while a superpower, is too authoritarian internally to project itself militarily. This is why I think it's actually half a superpower - it can only really pressure other nations economically. It can't pressure other nations militarily because it uses too much of its weapons to hold itself together internally.

So the Chinese Communist Party will have to make a decision:
1) either continue to impose itself on it's domestic territory at the cost of having greater influence on global affairs, especially militarily
2) either democratize the nation so that they won't have to control so much of its people and therefore people will choose not to rebel which will allow the nation to project itself without the worry of internal rebellion

I wonder which it will choose.
 
AdamT said:
You mean they don't believe in "American exceptionalism"? :shock:
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I don't think you know much about China or the world in general...

China is likely to be a future problem. A large part of that is their huge unbalanced population. Due to selective abortions and infanticide, they have a significantly skewed population. Millions more males than females. Historically, populations with this kind of disproportionate population have had aggression problems with their neighbors. So expect some expansion efforts in the next couple of decades. And possibly a war with India.
 
ric27 said:
I don't think you know much about China or the world in general...

China is likely to be a future problem. A large part of that is their huge unbalanced population. Due to selective abortions and infanticide, they have a significantly skewed population. Millions more males than females. Historically, populations with this kind of disproportionate population have had aggression problems with their neighbors. So expect some expansion efforts in the next couple of decades. And possibly a war with India.
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But what you forget to consider is that that aggression may be channeled at their own government rather than towards other nations.
 
ric27 said:
I don't think you know much about China or the world in general...

China is likely to be a future problem. A large part of that is their huge unbalanced population. Due to selective abortions and infanticide, they have a significantly skewed population. Millions more males than females. Historically, populations with this kind of disproportionate population have had aggression problems with their neighbors. So expect some expansion efforts in the next couple of decades. And possibly a war with India.
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Hmm, you seem to think you know more about China than you actually know. Their male/female population isn't that skewed:

Sex distribution: male 51.27%; female 48.73% (2010)
 
samsmart said:
But what you forget to consider is that that aggression may be channeled at their own government rather than towards other nations.
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A growing middle class may stabilize China and move it away from war, but there are lots of other factors to consider and it would be unwise to rely on it to keep China from war.

Unfortunately, I think you aren't taking this seriously because you don't want to believe it.

China has long been buying advanced armaments they don't need for defense. They have threatened Taiwan repeatedly. They steal our nuclear secrets and technology. They ram our airplanes and then hold them illegally for weeks while they extract all the intelligence information they can. They make cozy economic & weapons deals with Iran, they get control of the Panama canal and the potential to isolate our Pacific and Atlantic fleets and buying US oil companies.

You may not want to believe it, but that doesn't make it untrue.
 
AdamT said:
Hmm, you seem to think you know more about China than you actually know. Their male/female population isn't that skewed:

Sex distribution: male 51.27%; female 48.73% (2010)
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A one percent difference in proportion in China is about 60 million people. Meaning China has more males without a probable female partner then then entire population of Canada. Of course that does mean that it has 60 million men that have to work very hard and save alot of money to become a suitable marriage partner. Or they can just import Vietnamese and North Korean women to become brides
 
ric27 said:
A growing middle class may stabilize China and move it away from war, but there are lots of other factors to consider and it would be unwise to rely on it to keep China from war.

Unfortunately, I think you aren't taking this seriously because you don't want to believe it.

China has long been buying advanced armaments they don't need for defense. They have threatened Taiwan repeatedly. They steal our nuclear secrets and technology. They ram our airplanes and then hold them illegally for weeks while they extract all the intelligence information they can. They make cozy economic & weapons deals with Iran, they get control of the Panama canal and the potential to isolate our Pacific and Atlantic fleets and buying US oil companies.

You may not want to believe it, but that doesn't make it untrue.
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The US spends a huge amount of time accusing Europe and Canada of not spending enough on the military, when Europe in total spends at least three times what China does, and has generally higher tech weapons then China and states that europe is not spending enough on defense. When China spends money to improves it military technology it is accused of buying weapons not needed for defense.

I see a strong disconnect here
 
celticwar17 said:
China is going to become the next super power without a doubt.
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And yet they are spending like crazy.. how the heck can that happen? You'd think America would be standing on top with all the budget cuts.
 
ric27 said:
We well eventually fight a war with China. Once they think they can get around or defeat our technology, they will.

Bank on it
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I'll leave this country if the future leaders are going to let get to that. I am going to die like that... I am not that patriotic, **** it.
 
lpast said:
[h=1]Pentagon report: China closer to matching modern militaries[/h]
China's military buildup has made impressive gains that pushed the Communist Party-controlled People’s Liberation Army closer to matching modern militaries, according to the Pentagon’s annual report to Congress made public Wednesday.


Can I get a GREAT BIG THANK YOU from everyone for our Darling Corporate pigs at the trough that allowed this to happen out of GREED...
wont be long when america is going to condemn corporations for putting the entire country at risk for a buck
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Other than the loss of American jobs, putting us at the mercy of countries that produce goods, the extreme exploitation of people, and the degradation of American produced goods this seems to be another good reason to be against outsourcing. You would think republicans were lying when they said communism sucks and is evil. And apparently not all democrats are for the poor working man seeing how Clinton singed the WTO.
 
jamesrage said:
Other than the loss of American jobs, putting us at the mercy of countries that produce goods, the extreme exploitation of people, and the degradation of American produced goods this seems to be another good reason to be against outsourcing. You would think republicans were lying when they said communism sucks and is evil. And apparently not all democrats are for the poor working man seeing how Clinton singed the WTO.
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If you go back a little....all administrations since Nixon have suffered from a certain amount of faulty thinking. It's hard to look at motivations, rationale and goals from another culture's viewpoint. The US is a relatively young, vibrant and rapidly changing country. For a nation that measures its existence in thousands of years, our couple hundred are pretty short. They take a longer term view than we do. I think our logic was that if we open up Chinese markets to OUR goods, we'll sell lots of **** and make buttloads of money. When exposed to our culture and our consumer products, communism will fall.....didn't happen.

We didn't foresee their version of socialized capitalism. The Chinese threw us a curve ball and we swung and missed
 
When exposed to our culture and our consumer products, communism will fall.....didn't happen.

We didn't foresee their version of socialized capitalism. The Chinese threw us a curve ball and we swung and missed
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As Mr. Berra would say, it ain't over 'til it's over. China's experiment with socialized capitalism is in its infancy. Their middle class and upper class are growing rapidly. Wages are starting to rise. As they become more educated and well off they will start to demand a say in the country's governance. China's government will have a choice: either democratize or crush its most productive citizens. Either way China faces major growing pains that will alter its trajectory.
 
lpast said:
[h=1]Pentagon report: China closer to matching modern militaries[/h]
China's military buildup has made impressive gains that pushed the Communist Party-controlled People’s Liberation Army closer to matching modern militaries, according to the Pentagon’s annual report to Congress made public Wednesday.


Can I get a GREAT BIG THANK YOU from everyone for our Darling Corporate pigs at the trough that allowed this to happen out of GREED...
wont be long when america is going to condemn corporations for putting the entire country at risk for a buck
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It's not just the corporations, it's the American people as well as their government.

The United States has been borrowing money from China for years now and the interest on that debt is enormous. That's how they can afford a larger military, and it is the US taxpayer who is largely funding it.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
The US spends a huge amount of time accusing Europe and Canada of not spending enough on the military, when Europe in total spends at least three times what China does, and has generally higher tech weapons then China and states that europe is not spending enough on defense. When China spends money to improves it military technology it is accused of buying weapons not needed for defense.

I see a strong disconnect here
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In fact Europe is spending less and China is spending more. Europe is screwed anyway so it doesn't much matter, but Americans, Canadians, and those countries in China's vicinity should be wary of what's going on.

Europeans Retreat on Defense Spending - WSJ.com
 
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