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American hikers get sentenced to 8 years.

Cross our border illegally and you get welfare, food stamps, free medical care, and free housing, and if you commit a crime in most sanctuary cities you are never charged or prosecuted.
 
Kandahar said:
Ask yourself the same question about the innocent-hikers-on-the-border-of-Iran-and-Iraq explanation. The spy theory sounds at least as plausible to me.
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You don't think that US aid organizations (and others from many countries) exist in Iraq? I bet they do. I bet I can volunteer to go to Iraq Peace Corps-esque. And while I'm there, I bet a couple others would like to go hiking and maybe get just a glimpse of Persia - its mountains, borderlands at the edge of civilization... the top of the mountain, and have a look.


3 agents caught together wearing hiking gear and with nothing of any significance on them (physical evidence of any sort)... in the desert? Were they looking for a big radar-dish that folds out of the mountside to direct the doomsday weapon? That's lol. Seriously, what's wrong with you.


But then, I'm not the one who is blustering and swearing up and down that it's correct.
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I'm not blustering. I'm employing a basic level of logic against an assumption that supports Iran and is, in reason, ludicrous.

If you're so sure that the hiker story is correct, let's see something a bit more than "they were hiking in some meaningless area (at least, meaningless to me)" before you start hurling insults.
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See above. Now, that probably doesn't mean anything to you because logic and reason are not big in your repertoire. You prefer the possibility that something could (however insiginificant the odds) support your worldview. Poker with you would be fantastic. Keep believing in miracles and don't look to the side; what you don't see cannot hurt you.

ludicrous-speed.jpg



@Pete, do you wear a big hat?
 
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Councilman said:
Cross our border illegally and you get welfare, food stamps, free medical care, and free housing, and if you commit a crime in most sanctuary cities you are never charged or prosecuted.
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And they tell us we cant afford Social Security for those that paid into it all their lives or medicare...and no one is entitled to a pension or health benefits...and they arent uttering a peep about the border...I guess if your american none of the things you mention apply
 
The Americans, whose final court hearing was three weeks ago, deny the charges and say they were only hiking in a scenic and largely peaceful area of northern Iraq near the porous border.

Vancemack said it all...WHY? why there...its begs for trouble.
 
Hatuey said:
Here I'll make it simple for you again:

Being in the country for X period of time, does not allow a country to deny foreign nationals legal council from their governments. In both these cases people were denied legal council from their governments. As Texas did not allow a foreign national to have the council of his government, then the US can't demand that other countries follow international law when the same situation arises with American nationals abroad. In essence, the US has shot itself its own moral foot.



Do you know what a straw man is?
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So it's your opinion then, that had the US given this murderer, the right to a mexican council, then then there is going to be some other outcome expected with Iran concerning these spies/ students??

If that is your opinion, then I suggest your slide back under that rock you have been living under for the last 10 years, Because Iran for that time has been telling the US and the UN to f**k off concerning just about everything.

Comparing what we did to what a country like Iran does, is asinine at best, and just downright stupid at worst. If we were dealing with any country that had any past history of a person “rights” you may have a valid point.

Now I can understand your hatred of the death penalty here in the US, and that's fine, everyone has their own opinion of that, but using what happened in Texas, as an example of how Iran is treating these people, saying, let alone thinking, that Iran would act, or would have acted any differently is just pure nonsense.

Then lastly, of those people that agreed with what happened in Texas, I see very few of them complaining much at all over this sentence. Most have called those people stupid for hiking where they did, and deserving of what they have gotten for being so stupid.
 
PeteEU said:
Add to the fact the serious issues with why the hell they were there in the first place, and I would tend from off the bat to believe they were spies for the US in some sort of way.
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But of course. They are Americans. They must be guilty.

PeatLogic
 
Are they more or less real than the Russian spies caught in the US last summer?
 
Tashah said:
One is considered innocent unless/until the prosecution proves its case.
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Legally, yes. On an internet message board, no.

Since you seem to embrace the Iranian prosecution position, the onus here is thus on you to advance the Iranian case with bona-fide instruments of evidence. So far, you have not provided even a smidgen of such.
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Nor have I argued that they are guilty of spying. :2wave:
 
ecofarm said:
You don't think that US aid organizations (and others from many countries) exist in Iraq? I bet they do. I bet I can volunteer to go to Iraq Peace Corps-esque. And while I'm there, I bet a couple others would like to go hiking and maybe get just a glimpse of Persia - its mountains, borderlands at the edge of civilization... the top of the mountain, and have a look.
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Mm-hmm. Or they could be spies.

3 agents caught together wearing hiking gear and with nothing of any significance on them (physical evidence of any sort)... in the desert?
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How do you know they had nothing of any significance on them? I'm not sure either the US government or the Iranian government would have any reason to disclose it to the media if they did.

Were they looking for a big radar-dish that folds out of the mountside to direct the doomsday weapon? That's lol. Seriously, what's wrong with you.
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You might think about the fact that mountain sides are indeed prime real estate for doomsday weapons of the nuclear variety.

I'm not blustering. I'm employing a basic level of logic against an assumption that supports Iran and is, in reason, ludicrous.
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Basic level of logic: "That's lol. Seriously, what's wrong with you."
Quite the compelling argument you have there.
 
dixiesolutions said:
Tell the Iranian Goverment we'll trade Lady Ga Ga and Justin Beiber for them.
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Beibers not ours is he? I thought he was Canadian. Besides...we are gonna need used up crack whores for the next round of reality shows in a few years...better hang on to both of them.

(I cant say I have ever heard a single Beibster song...but actually give him props...and hear he has a good crossover and a decent jump shot!)
 
Kandahar said:
You might think about the fact that mountain sides are indeed prime real estate for doomsday weapons of the nuclear variety.
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Ok, you got me. Two CIA agents were hiking with a civilian female in the middle of nowhere to investigate a mountainside doomsday weapon. Our satellites have shown no surface activity and we figure that it is being built with an underground railroad. They were to locate the secret underground installation, gather info from the computers and permenantly disable the facility. Iran nabbed those pesky spies, just in the nick of time. The civilian female was a human shield but Iran was clever enough to figure that out and merciful enough to release the innocent victim of US murder-agents.

Lunacy.



I'll give a 1% chance they were spies. You give a 50%+ chance; that's highly irrational. Why do you clearly behave irrationally ("AT LEAST as plausible") in defense of Iran?
 
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ecofarm said:
Ok, you got me. Two CIA agents were hiking with a civilian female in the middle of nowhere to investigate a mountainside doomsday weapon. Our satellites have shown no surface activity and we figure that it is being built with an underground railroad. They were to locate the secret underground installation, gather info from the computers and permenantly disable the facility. Iran nabbed those pesky spies, just in the nick of time. The civilian female was a human shield but Iran was clever enough to figure that out and merciful enough to release the innocent victim of US murder-agents.

Lunacy.
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Indeed. You have quite the active imagination. I'd lay off the 24 for a while.

I'll give a 1% chance they were spies. You give a 50%+ chance; that's highly irrational.
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Nothing about their case is inconsistent with Iran picking up spies, or with Iran picking up hikers and accusing them of being spies. As such, I'm just asking myself which seems like a more plausible explanation for three Americans to be strolling the mountainous border of Iran and Iraq.

Why do you clearly behave irrationally ("AT LEAST as plausible") in defense of Iran?
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Your silly explanation is not the only narrative consistent with spies being there. Nice try though. :2wave:
 
Kandahar said:
Indeed. You have quite the active imagination. I'd lay off the 24 for a while.
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You mean TV? Haven't had one in years; haven't been in a home with one in over a year. You're the one defending Iran with wild accusations that COMPLETELY lack evidence.
Nothing about their case is inconsistent with Iran picking up spies, or with Iran picking up hikers and accusing them of being spies. As such, I'm just asking myself which seems like a more plausible explanation for three Americans to be strolling the mountainous border of Iran and Iraq.
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There are Americans strolling in Congo right now. There are missionaries and volunteers in just about every country. Perhaps if you had the slightest clue, asking yourself might help.
Your silly explanation is not the only narrative consistent with spies being there. Nice try though.
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Give us a better one.



You are mindlessly supporting Iran. Gee... I wonder why.
 
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ecofarm said:
You mean TV? Haven't had one in years; haven't been in a home with one in over a year. You're the one defending Iran with wild accusations that COMPLETELY lack evidence.
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I haven't even accused them of being spies, much less "defended Iran." In fact, I've barely even mentioned Iran's actions.

There are Americans strolling in Congo right now. There are missionaries and volunteers in just about every country. Perhaps if you had the slightest clue, asking yourself might help.
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But these weren't missionaries. In fact, they weren't even living in Iran or Iraq. They were living in Syria and they claim they decided to go on vacation to the region.

Give us a better one.
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A better narrative consistent with them being spies? OK, this one seems pretty plausible to me: The US government found a few idealistic 20-somethings living in the Middle East, recruited them as spies, and sent them into Iran's hinterlands to investigate something (perhaps a nuclear site). They were then captured, as spies occasionally are.

You are mindlessly supporting Iran.
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How exactly does anything I have said "support Iran," mindlessly or otherwise? Which point do you disagree with - that the US is most likely spying on Iran, or that spies will occasionally be caught?

Gee... I wonder why.
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Because I want to see Iran take over the world and force you to read the Qu'ran. Allahu akhbar. Derka derka mohammed jihad.
 
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Kandahar said:
I haven't even accused them of being spies, much less "defended Iran." In fact, I've barely even mentioned Iran's actions.
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You claimed that them being spies is AT LEAST AS PLAUSIBLE as them being hikers. That is accusing them, by saying it is the most likely explanation.

A better narrative consistent with them being spies? OK, this one seems pretty plausible to me: The US government found a few idealistic 20-somethings living in the Middle East, recruited them as spies, and sent them into Iran's hinterlands to investigate something (perhaps a nuclear site). They were then captured, as spies occasionally are.
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1. I saw that movie, with Chevy Chase and Dan Akroid.
2. What could they see that a satellite cannot?
3. ON FOOT?!
4. How do you explain the female.

How exactly does anything I have said "support Iran," mindlessly or otherwise?
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You support Iran by believing their completely UNSUBSTANTIATED case. I'd think one would want SOME evidence.

Which point do you disagree with - that the US is most likely spying on Iran, or that spies will occasionally be caught?
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So, by completely removing context and considering what might be possible... you find them likely guilty based on the word of Iran. At any rate, I disagree with the "likely" part - the US is definately spying in Iran.

Because I want to see Iran take over the world and force you to read the Qu'ran. Allahu akhbar. Derka derka mohammed jihad.
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One needn't be an extremist to buy propaganda.
 
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Not done.

Kandahar said:
Ihe US government found a few idealistic 20-somethings living in the Middle East, recruited them as spies,
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This is a telling statement for two reasons (the first regarding ignorance and the second bias).

1. Do you think the CIA is in the business of recruiting "idealistic" people? No, they recruit top critical minds. Don't be ridiculous in your assessment of the CIA, you're showing your ass.

2. Why must someone recruited by the CIA be idealistic? You presume that such a characteristic is inherent (or at least somehow relevent) in being recruited by the CIA.



Given a "Spies Like Us" scenario, as you describe, I'm still interested to hear your explanation of the female's presence.
 
Friend 1: "Hey, lets go outside the country to hike"
Friend 2: "Ok, where do you want to go?"
Friend 1: "There is this one spot next to the Iran, Iraq border that is great for hiking."
Friend 2: "Totally!!"
 
I'd like to see Iraq for myself. Often people are like 'what, have you been there', and I could say 'yeah, I saw it'. I'd also like to catch a glimpse of Persia, someday. Anyway, it's not such a big deal and, I'm sure, nine out of ten times a hiking trip to Iraq works out just fine. Sometimes, bad stuff happens but that's life.


PeteEU said:
they seriously ****ed up and should frankly be bitch slapped for that alone.
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Advocating violence? Perhaps you think they should be tortured. Seems strange, your reaction to people trying to get close to Iran...

OMG! THEY ARE GETTING CLOSE TO IRAN! THEY SHOULD BE DESTROYED!

I'd like to go see Iraq and try a look at Iran, if I was already in the area and familiar with or with someone who was familiar with a language (presumably arabic). I'm sure most of the time it's fine. Why are you being so judgemental about the risks that people choose to take in their personal lives? It's not like it affects you; they chose to do something dangerous (don't play stupid and pretend they had no idea there were risks) for what they perceived as worth it. For some people, the internet is not enough (can you imagine?!). Go take the risks in your life that you want (financial, personal and otherwise) and try to refrain from advocating beatings for people who choose something different with no affect on you.

They'll do their time and write their story, and they'll make it - they're Americans. Why you gotta hate on suffering people.
 
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Everyone knows that Iranian and Islamic law are irrational retardisms from a comic book! They couldn't find their way out of a paper bag and are just playing evil villain!

Im pretty much convinced if they were this dumb at this point the country wouldve collapsed a while back, by which I conclude it must be difficult to discern whether or not these folks were spies.


HURRMMMMM... thinky think.
 
ecofarm said:
Not done.



This is a telling statement for two reasons (the first regarding ignorance and the second bias).

1. Do you think the CIA is in the business of recruiting "idealistic" people? No, they recruit top critical minds. Don't be ridiculous in your assessment of the CIA, you're showing your ass.

2. Why must someone recruited by the CIA be idealistic? You presume that such a characteristic is inherent (or at least somehow relevent) in being recruited by the CIA.



Given a "Spies Like Us" scenario, as you describe, I'm still interested to hear your explanation of the female's presence.
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Frankly you are a remarkably unpleasant person to talk to, so I think I'll pass. ;)
 
1. Do you think the CIA is in the business of recruiting "idealistic" people? No, they recruit top critical minds. Don't be ridiculous in your assessment of the CIA, you're showing your ass.
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Umm.... actually thats precisely what a spy does is recruit people sympathetic to a 'cause' to work for him. Nice Ass...
 
Kandahar said:
Frankly you are a remarkably unpleasant person to talk to, so I think I'll pass.
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Frankly, you have nothing to support your ridiculous opinion (except moronic assumptions), so you fail. Also, I'm glad that someone who mindlessly supports Iran finds it unpleasant to converse with me; I wouldn't have it any other way.



SE102 said:
Umm.... actually thats precisely what a spy does is recruit people sympathetic to a 'cause' to work for him. Nice Ass...
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Why don't you consider, for a minute, the tactical and strategic risks of recruiting amateurs for secret missions. If a spy gets someone to help them, it is with a file from work or something similar (that can be passed off as non-spy work). They don't just go up to civilians and say "hey, I'm a spy and I'd like you to go on a secret FOOT mission to investigate Iran's nuclear program in the desert...". Tell me, did the CIA provide the female or were they allowed to bring a friend on the mission.

Ok, we'll do it! But our friend Sally wants to go too.

Ok, fine. But no drinking.


Only children or the brainwashed (either anti-US or pro-Iran) could possibly buy Iran's verdict as the most likely explanation. Given a total lack of evidence... some people will still believe Iran - no matter how bizarre the claim. Amazing.
 
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ecofarm said:
Given a total lack of evidence... some people will still believe Iran - no matter how bizarre the claim. Amazing.
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Indeed. The accrued information provided by both internal and external sources on the Iranian court/prison systems is quite robust. For example...

London-based journalist who spent four months in an Iranian jail has described how he was beaten and threatened with hanging to make him confess to being a Western spy.
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Newsweek journalist tells of beatings and sex questions in Iranian jail - Telegraph

In light of such information, I have no idea why anyone would blindly accept a guilty verdict in this case.
 
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