• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

American hikers get sentenced to 8 years.

Hatuey said:
.... As I remember correctly, many on this board seemed to have no issue with a Mexican national being executed by the state of Texas even though Texas clearly broke international law in denying him certain rights. We now have no grounds to demand that our citizens be returned safely. Thanks Texas!
Click to expand...
Apparenly you continue to ignore the Supreme Court on this matter.
 
Whether or not they're truly spies, this is for sure going to hamper Iran's tourism industry.
 
theplaydrive said:
In Hatuey's defense, VanceMack calls everybody stupid...

As far as the topic, I don't think they're spies, but then again I'm not supposed to think they're spies so that's not really saying much. Regardless, I think Iran is just playing a political game with the United States. There's not outrageous or angering about them sentencing these guys - this kind of stuff is to be expected considering the relationship the two states have with one another.

If they weren't spies, they were dumb for traveling that close to the border, but if they didn't actually cross the border, then they are locked up unjustly. I see several posts saying that they deserved to get punished even if they didn't cross the border. I don't understand that sentiment. If they didn't break the law, they shouldn't be prosecuted. That said, there's nothing remarkable about this situation.
Click to expand...
If you defend his idiotic argument, share his label.

FTR...I have many discussions with people that don't devolve into the ridiculous. Equating the US and Iranian justice systems or claiming that somehow the recent case in Texas (that was SOOO important that no one even KNEW about it until the death sentence was about to be fulfilled) has ANY bearing on the current case in Iran is...well...just plain stupid.
 
Last edited:
theplaydrive said:
Furthermore, I don't recall defending his argument.
Click to expand...
You brought me up, jumped in, and 'I'm' mad? You got me all wrong, son...I think its funny as hell.
 
VanceMack said:
If you defend his idiotic argument, share his label.

FTR...I have many discussions with people that don't devolve into the ridiculous. Equating the US and Iranian justice systems or claiming that somehow the recent case in Texas (that was SOOO important that no one even KNEW about it until the death sentence was about to be fulfilled) has ANY bearing on the current case in Iran is...well...just plain stupid.
Click to expand...

I don't recall defending his argument, but I'll take his label anyway. You've accused so many people of being stupid on this board that the word coming from you has absolutely no meaning.

FTR, all you have to do is search "vancemack" and "stupid" to know how often your "discussions" devolve.
 
VanceMack said:
You brought me up, jumped in, and 'I'm' mad? You got me all wrong, son...I think its funny as hell.
Click to expand...
To let people know who are confused by this post: I deleted it because the image was too large.

FTR, I didn't "bring you up".
 
theplaydrive said:
I don't recall defending his argument, but I'll take his label anyway. You've accused so many people of being stupid on this board that the word coming from you has absolutely no meaning.

FTR, all you have to do is search "vancemack" and "stupid" to know how often your "discussions" devolve.
Click to expand...
If I have called you stupid in the past...then...I'm sure you have deserved it. Align yourself with an argument such as was advanced in this thread...come now...even YOU cant defend his argument...and yet you want to play.

Here's the REALLY funny part...your comments in this thread mirror mine.
 
Last edited:
You could hardly imagine international law without the US. As an outsider it's comforting to know some americans still care about that reputation. It's not as popular among the conservative right, I guess. It's the same in my country, where I often detect and detest the 'best boy in the class' attitude from our political elite.

No matter what international law in place, and whether the US respected them or not, Iran could care less. They're on some holy mission to 'destroy the US'. Since they can't, they will have to settle for some foolish hikers now and again.
 
VanceMack said:
If I have called you stupid in the past...then...I'm sure you have deserved it. Align yourself with an argument such as was advanced in this thread...come now...even YOU cant defend his argument...and yet you want to play.

Here's the REALLY funny part...your comments in this thread mirror mine.
Click to expand...
/cool story bro

Point is, VanceMack calling Hatuey stupid says nothing about Hatuey's argument. Actually, that's not really "the point" - it was one sentence of out an entire post that I can't believe I'm still talking about.
 
theplaydrive said:
/cool story bro

Point is, VanceMack calling Hatuey stupid says nothing about Hatuey's argument. Actually, that's not really "the point" - it was one sentence of out an entire post that I can't believe I'm still talking about.
Click to expand...
Me neither. I did in fact call the ARGUMENT stupid...same as the blind defense of said argument. I did NOT bring his genitcally challenged daughter into the discussion. That was his doing.
 
VanceMack said:
I did in fact call the ARGUMENT stupid...same as the blind defense of said argument.
Click to expand...
Actually, you called him stupid - not his argument. At least own up to it.

VanceMack said:
Well...one cant help but admire your tenacity even though it is STILL couched in your stupidity.

Its not just ooops...a mistake...you are actually stupid enough to BELIEVE it.
Click to expand...
 
theplaydrive said:
Actually, you called him stupid - not his argument. At least own up to it.
Click to expand...
Ah...good point (and in the name of full disclosure I believe I also called his arguments irrelevant, self serving, and a few other things). Which of course they were). FTR...in your opinion his argument was_______? And his dogged defense of it was_________? And you felt the need to jump and defend him because_________?
 
Last edited:
Tashah said:
Right. Much like American journalist Roxana Saberi was a spy.

Her one day espionage trial was so unjust that even Ahmadinejad was totally embarrassed.
Click to expand...

I don't know the circumstances of her case, but are you saying that because one person wasn't a spy that it conclusively disproves that other people could be spies?

I'm not saying that these "hikers" definitely are spies...I have no idea. But it hardly seems out of the realm of possibility that the US would be spying on Iran, and that those spies might occasionally get caught.
 
VanceMack said:
Ah...good point (and in the name of full disclosure I believe I also called his arguments irrelevant, self serving, and a few other things). Which of course they were). FTR...in your opinion his argument was_______? And his dogged defense of it was_________? And you felt the need to jump and defend him because_________?
Click to expand...
I don't think you understand. I don't care about his argument or your rebuttal. I also haven't defended him. I have to admit though, I didn't think my <10 words about you would evoke such a sensitive response from you. You one up yourself every time. Are you almost at the point where you freak out and call me stupid like you do to everyone in every other thread?
 
theplaydrive said:
I don't think you understand. I don't care about his argument or your rebuttal. I also haven't defended him. I have to admit though, I didn't think my <10 words about you would evoke such a sensitive response from you. You one up yourself every time. Are you almost at the point where you freak out and call me stupid like you do to everyone in every other thread?
Click to expand...
Its funny you think that was a 'sensitive' response. If I called you 'stupid' in a thread is it because you insist on making stupid comments? Frankly, nothing about our exchanges in the past have ever struck home enough for me to bother remembering them. And I promise...I dont care enough about you to look it up. But feel free to refresh my memory.
 
VanceMack said:
Its funny you think that was a 'sensitive' response. If I called you 'stupid' in a thread is it because you insist on making stupid comments? Frankly, nothing about our exchanges in the past have ever struck home enough for me to bother remembering them. And I promise...I dont care enough about you to look it up. But feel free to refresh my memory.
Click to expand...
You're sensitive because you insist on talking about <10 words that I didn't even put much thought into writing. I can now add "delusions of grandeur" to the list of your defining characteristics.
 
theplaydrive said:
You're sensitive because you insist on talking about <10 words that I didn't even put much thought into writing. I can now add "delusions of grandeur" to the list of your defining characteristics.
Click to expand...
And yet you persist...so again...why you hatin' son?
 
VanceMack said:
Or your lack of a sense of humor.
Click to expand...
Actually, my sense of humor led me to post the initial comment. It was your sensitive lack of humor that led you to do more than laugh at it and move on - hence why I call you sensitive.
 
Kandahar said:
I don't know the circumstances of her case, but are you saying that because one person wasn't a spy that it conclusively disproves that other people could be spies?

I'm not saying that these "hikers" definitely are spies...I have no idea. But it hardly seems out of the realm of possibility that the US would be spying on Iran, and that those spies might occasionally get caught.
Click to expand...

I'm sure we have spies in Tehran. Here's the problem... I don't think the CIA operates via a few people hiking near the border in a meaningless place. Do you think they were conducting a land survey? Do you think the CIA can't provide passports and visas? What, they were on the run? Please, for one minute, think about this. HTF do three (or more?) CIA agents end up in hiking gear along a meaningless border together. Was it a secret meeting? Like the CIA would not have picked them up or otherwise provided intel to avoid capture if they were on the run? You think they would stick together? Why was the female released? Do you forget that we have satellites or do you read too much Clancy.


Seriously, 3 agents together in the middle of nowhere and the female gets released? In what world does that make sense.
 
Last edited:
ecofarm said:
I'm sure we have spies in Tehran. Here's the problem... I don't think the CIA operates via a few people hiking near the border in a meaningless place. Do you think they were conducting a land survey?
Click to expand...

I have no idea what they were doing. Iran has lots of, shall we say, interesting facilities in "meaningless places." Far better to build a nuclear reactor in the side of a mountain than in downtown Tehran. In fact, I would hazard a guess that worldwide, the CIA has as many spies in places you deem meaningless as it does in major cities.

Do you think the CIA can't provide passports and visas? What, they were on the run?
Click to expand...

You're saying the fact that they didn't have proper documentation proves their innocence? :confused:

Please, for one minute, think about this. HTF do three (or more?) CIA agents end up in hiking gear along a meaningless border together.
Click to expand...

Maybe they had to hike somewhere.

Was it a secret meeting? Like the CIA would not have picked them up or otherwise provided intel to avoid capture if they were on the run? You think they would stick together?
Click to expand...

Depends on what they were doing and why.

Why was the female released?
Click to expand...

Because doing so is viewed as a sign of mercy. And if you suspect some other motive, spell it out. Why would the female have been released if they WEREN'T spies and Iran wanted to pretend they were?

Do you forget that we have satellites or do you read too much Clancy.
Click to expand...

Never read anything by Clancy. As for satellites, what do you imagine that satellites can do to prevent them from being captured? The US is not omnipotent. Spies occasionally get caught.

Seriously, 3 agents together in the middle of nowhere and the female gets released? In what world does that make sense.
Click to expand...

Ask yourself the same question about the innocent-hikers-on-the-border-of-Iran-and-Iraq explanation. The spy theory sounds at least as plausible to me. But then, I'm not the one who is blustering and swearing up and down that it's correct. If you're so sure that the hiker story is correct, let's see something a bit more than "they were hiking in some meaningless area (at least, meaningless to me)" before you start hurling insults. ;)
 
Last edited:
Kandahar said:
If you're so sure that the hiker story is correct, let's see something a bit more than "they were hiking in some meaningless area (at least, meaningless to me)" before you start hurling insults. ;)
Click to expand...
One is considered innocent unless/until the prosecution proves its case. Since you seem to embrace the Iranian prosecution position, the onus here is thus on you to advance the Iranian case with bona-fide instruments of evidence. So far, you have not provided even a smidgen of such.
 
Tashah said:
One is considered innocent unless/until the prosecution proves its case. Since you seem to embrace the Iranian prosecution position, the onus here is thus on you to advance the Iranian case with bona-fide instruments of evidence. So far, you have not provided even a smidgen of such.
Click to expand...

That is nothing but a cop out. There are some facts that people seem to ignore.

1) They were in Iraq hiking... a war torn almost lawless country... not exactly a tourist haven. Or is it normal for American's to go to war torn countries as tourists? How many American's are going to Somalia these days? Or Syria, or Libya?

2) They were hiking near or over the Iranian border... like it or not that in it self is beyond stupid. There are far safer places to hike in Iraq, so why near the Iranian border? Are they not aware of the issues between the US and Iran? Dont they have basic GPS to make sure they dont go any where near the border?

And lets not forget the biggest stupidity... 3 American's hiking in a country and part of the world that HATE American's guts...... seriously how stupid can you be?

So again.. either they are the most stupid people on the planet, or they are spies. Either way, they seriously ****ed up and should frankly be bitch slapped for that alone.

As for "proving" and "not guilty until proven guilty"... we are not in the US or Europe.. the rest of the world rarely uses those rules especially when sworn enemies of the state are involved.. and like it or not American's are persona non grata in Iran. Add to the fact the serious issues with why the hell they were there in the first place, and I would tend from off the bat to believe they were spies for the US in some sort of way.. unless they were brain dead idiots with no sense of reality or awareness.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom