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Bachmann wins Iowa straw poll, keeps momentum

And the question would be has anyone made an argument to those facts and provided clear and convincing evidence?

No, AFAIK no one has. So I can't really express any opinion one way or another. Right?
 
No, AFAIK no one has. So I can't really express any opinion one way or another. Right?

You could say that no one has proven x about person y. Of course, you could just say nothing at all.
 
You could say that no one has proven x about person y. Of course, you could just say nothing at all.

Right, so far no one has proven that Bachman is a pedophile or that Paul is a serial killer. I shall withold judgment on those questions.
 
Right, so far no one has proven that Bachman is a pedophile or that Paul is a serial killer. I shall withold judgment on those questions.

That's fine. You can take that choice rather than just saying nothing. Hmmmm. I wonder how that makes you look? :roll:
 
That's fine. You can take that choice rather than just saying nothing. Hmmmm. I wonder how that makes you look? :roll:

It makes me look the way that you look vis-a-vis Obama and being a Marxist.
 
It makes me look the way that you look vis-a-vis Obama and being a Marxist.

Actually, that is not correct. Until tonight, I have never said anything about Obama alongside the word Marxist. The only reason I did is others, perhaps you, brought it into the conversation. Had that not been done, I would not have made any comment about Obama alongside Marxist.
 
Actually, that is not correct. Until tonight, I have never said anything about Obama alongside the word Marxist. The only reason I did is others, perhaps you, brought it into the conversation. Had that not been done, I would not have made any comment about Obama alongside Marxist.

Yep, and I have never discussed Bachman's potential pedophilia or Paul's serial killer status.

Point being, Obama isn't a Marxist, Bachman isn't a pedophile, and Paul isn't a serial killer. It's silly to withhold judgment on these obvious questions.
 
Bachman actually WANTS to destroy our economy by defaulting on the debt. She is 100 times scarier than Paul, and he's plenty scary.

You don’t have your facts straight. Not raising the debt ceiling could have been done without a debt default. You might not agree with the austerity measures but your accusation is invalid.
 
bachmann can't win the GOP nomination because she's a woman. Most GOP male voters are not yet comfortable w/a female President since they (still) believe a woman's proper place is in the kitchen and bathroom, while the man should go out and work. In fact, bachmann said it herself--that a woman should be submissive to her man.

That is a good point! My prediction is that Perry will win the primary election, because unlike all the other candidates he appeals to both the crazy and the old school wings of the the GOP.
 
Don't count you count your chickens until they're hatched. Who are you voting for?

You won't get an answer from him on that, I have already asked the same question. It seems the marching orders have not been issued yet.
 
bachmann can't win the GOP nomination because she's a woman. Most GOP male voters are not yet comfortable w/a female President since they (still) believe a woman's proper place is in the kitchen and bathroom, while the man should go out and work. In fact, bachmann said it herself--that a woman should be submissive to her man.

How do you explain Palin’s continued popularity within the GOP despite relentless media/liberal attacks aimed at bringing her down?

I think you are as guilty of the sexism/racism that you pretend to abhor. I do know that you don’t know jack about republicans if you think the way you do.
 
That is a good point! My prediction is that Perry will win the primary election, because unlike all the other candidates he appeals to both the crazy and the old school wings of the the GOP.

Good point eh? Do you really think conservatives won’t elect a woman because they think she belongs in the kitchen? Do you get out much?
 
You don’t have your facts straight. Not raising the debt ceiling could have been done without a debt default. You might not agree with the austerity measures but your accusation is invalid.

Originally Posted by AdamT
Bachman actually WANTS to destroy our economy by defaulting on the debt. She is 100 times scarier than Paul, and he's plenty scary.


Someone actually said that? wow... has he not been paying attention at all to recent politics?
 
Someone actually said that? wow... has he not been paying attention at all to recent politics?

it's all about nuance. not raising the debt ceiling would not necessarily have resulted in a default (that's something a lot of people have failed to realize), but nevertheless, it would have been a rather destructive outcome that i really would prefer not to think about. And for those who insisted that crashing the economy by not raising the debt ceiling was somehow worth it, i have got to question their ability to appraise reality.

nevertheless, i don't believe Bachmann is a serious contender for the nomination, much less the general election. Right now Romney leads, and Perry is probably the obvious second choice. The Ames straw poll, IMO, is pretty much meaningless.
 
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it's all about nuance. not raising the debt ceiling would not necessarily have resulted in a default (that's something a lot of people have failed to realize), but nevertheless, it would have been a rather destructive outcome that i really would prefer not to think about. And for those who insisted that crashing the economy by not raising the debt ceiling was somehow worth it, i have got to question their ability to appraise reality.

Actually it is worth thinking about because it was after the debt ceiling agreement was reached that the US credit rating was downgraded. It showed that the government is not serious in looking after its debts and was judged accordingly.

Furthermore, the Obama Administration should have seen this coming and had a budget in place well before this 'crisis' ever appeared. The American government is no longer deserves a triple A rating. Bachmann was correct.
 
Good point eh? Do you really think conservatives won’t elect a woman because they think she belongs in the kitchen? Do you get out much?

We will find out this spring! :sun
 
Actually it is worth thinking about because it was after the debt ceiling agreement was reached that the US credit rating was downgraded. It showed that the government is not serious in looking after its debts and was judged accordingly.

Nevertheless, the damage that would resulted from an inability to raise the debt ceiling would have thrown the entire global economy back into turmoil, in which case we would have had much bigger problems on our hands than a credit downgrade. And remember, the rationale behind the downgrade was not simply that the debt is a problem, it's also that there are intransigent orthodox ideologues in Congress on both sides of the aisle who don't seem willing to compromise.

Furthermore, the Obama Administration should have seen this coming and had a budget in place well before this 'crisis' ever appeared. The American government is no longer deserves a triple A rating. Bachmann was correct.

well, frankly I personally supported the Simpson-Bowles and Domenici-Rivlin plans, but unfortunately none of those recommendations ever made their way to the floor of the House or Senate. That's another story though.
 
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We will find out this spring! :sun

Does this mean to you that if Bachmann is not the nominee, Republicans are sexist?

There is no one who attacks Conservative women more than the left wing. They have blood in their eyes and hate in their hearts whenever Palin or Bachmann are mentioned, and will attack their families and every aspect of their lives. They become, as charged, deranged.
 
Nevertheless, the damage that would resulted from an inability to raise the debt ceiling would have thrown the entire global economy back into turmoil, in which case we would have had much bigger problems on our hands than a credit downgrade. And remember, the rationale behind the downgrade was not simply that the debt is a problem, it's also that there are intransigent orthodox ideologues in Congress on both sides of the aisle who don't seem willing to compromise.

The money was always there to pay the government's debts and more progress would have been made with spending cuts, something that this government was clearly unwilling to do.

There is only one ideology that interests lenders and that is the one that says they will be repaid. As the US government was borrowing $2 trillion a year with no apparent interest in slowing down its spending or paying down the debt, the lenders were warned of this through the credit downgrade.
 
Does this mean to you that if Bachmann is not the nominee, Republicans are sexist?

There is no one who attacks Conservative women more than the left wing. They have blood in their eyes and hate in their hearts whenever Palin or Bachmann are mentioned, and will attack their families and every aspect of their lives. They become, as charged, deranged.


It would suggest it played a role in her defeat. The only positive proof that the Republican's are not sexist would be if they actually elected her as their nominee. I am betting they will not.

I do not hate Bachmann or Palin and I am a liberal. I think they are stupid and unqualified to be president but I certainly do not hate them.
 
The money was always there to pay the government's debts and more progress would have been made with spending cuts, something that this government was clearly unwilling to do.

There is only one ideology that interests lenders and that is the one that says they will be repaid. As the US government was borrowing $2 trillion a year with no apparent interest in slowing down its spending or paying down the debt, the lenders were warned of this through the credit downgrade.

I don't disagree with any of this. Nevertheless, not allowing the debt ceiling to increase would have been economically catastrophic, And, once again, the raising of the debt ceiling is to pay for debts that the government has already incurred through budgets already formulated, appropriated, and approved. In a hypothetical situation in which the debt ceiling failed to be increased, while it is still possible to pay off creditors who own your debt, the inability to pay off others whom you owe obligations to doesn't do one's credit any good.
 
It would suggest it played a role in her defeat. The only positive proof that the Republican's are not sexist would be if they actually elected her as their nominee. I am betting they will not.

And the fact that she might not be the right candidate for other reasons would not be a factor in their decision? And if they don't select a male candidate they are sexist also I suppose.

I do not hate Bachmann or Palin and I am a liberal. I think they are stupid and unqualified to be president but I certainly do not hate them.

Of course. These two women are "stupid" and therefore unqualified. Spoken like a true Liberal.
 
I don't disagree with any of this. Nevertheless, not allowing the debt ceiling to increase would have been economically catastrophic,

I disagree but the 'catastrophe' was the word of the day for a while.

And, once again, the raising of the debt ceiling is to pay for debts that the government has already incurred through budgets already formulated, appropriated, and approved.

The Obama Administration has never presented a budget apart from the one that BHO brought forward and which was rejected 97-0.
In a hypothetical situation in which the debt ceiling failed to be increased, while it is still possible to pay off creditors who own your debt, the inability to pay off others whom you owe obligations to doesn't do one's credit any good.

I think there is a lot of room for us to disagree on either side and perhaps we are both leaning towards our ideologies rather than what might have been prudent, possible or predictable. I think that insisting that cuts be made and spending brought into line with conventional budget procedures would have sent a much stronger message to the international financial community than what eventually passed.
 
And the fact that she might not be the right candidate for other reasons would not be a factor in their decision? And if they don't select a male candidate they are sexist also I suppose.

That is not what I said. The only positive proof the majority of Republicans are not sexist is if they actually elect Bachmann as their candidate.


Of course. These two women are "stupid" and therefore unqualified. Spoken like a true Liberal.

There are as many brilliant women as there are brilliant men. However, Bachmann and Palin have demonstrated they are not among them.
 
Who are they going to run to? It sure as hell isn't going to be Obama.

So you are saying that because Obama is so bad, the independents will go against every fiber in their body and vote for a far right wing religious corporatism nut job? I doubt that very much.
 
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