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31 American Troops Killed In NATO Helicopter Crash In Afghanistan

America hasn't won a war since we abandoned the policy of Total War. A time tested and true method for actually WINNING WARS.
 
In my opinion you are mistaken. We were not beaten militarily. We had a political decision to run away. We could discuss this in a separate thread if you like.

Short of absorbing nuclear attacks, North Vietnam had no breaking point. Kissinger openly lamented that fact. He said, "I can't believe a fourth-rate military power like North Vietnam has no breaking point." Kissinger was obsessed with power, but had to admit he couldn't break North Vietnam. Johnson had to start lying to America about North Vietnam and its prosecution of the war almost immediately after sending in conventional troops in 1965. The war stymied him, and everybody else who worked it, from a policy perspective. It couldn't be won, without nukes, which would've ignited WWIII.
 
HearHear rip brothers..
 
Short of absorbing nuclear attacks, North Vietnam had no breaking point. Kissinger openly lamented that fact. He said, "I can't believe a fourth-rate military power like North Vietnam has no breaking point." Kissinger was obsessed with power, but had to admit he couldn't break North Vietnam. Johnson had to start lying to America about North Vietnam and its prosecution of the war almost immediately after sending in conventional troops in 1965. The war stymied him, and everybody else who worked it, from a policy perspective. It couldn't be won, without nukes, which would've ignited WWIII.
Start a thread. I will participate.
 
America hasn't won a war since we abandoned the policy of Total War. A time tested and true method for actually WINNING WARS.

It doesn't fit every scenario, unless you don't mind committing mass-murder.
 
Start a thread. I will participate.

Please read VIETNAM: A History, by Stanley Karnow (winner of the Pulitzer Prize). It's the single greatest work on the Vietnam War ever written. It reads like a thriller. You'll love it. It's brilliant, beyond my powers of description.
 
That would be funny. Except it's just not.
The real question would be who would be the nut to push the red button, that some one I bet dollars to oranges won't be from the first world if you will.
 
I apologize, I misunderstood. :)

I work with a guy who was in Vietnam. He told me straight up we slaughtered the slant eyes and won every battle fought. It was a defeat only in Washington, where the generals were not allowing the commanders on the ground to attack in the ways they knew they needed to to win. They were given stupid targets to attack and had to disobey orders to attack what they KNEW would cause damage to the enemy. He said we had the capability of leveling Vietnam but we restrained ourselves.

We didn't lose that war on the ground, only in Washington.
 
Good lord people.

31 military folks...sons...husbands...fathers...died in a combat operation. Cant you for once let go of your pathetic need to fight politics and just mourn already? MUST every single instance including this tragedy be used for a springboard for a political attack? WTF is wrong with you people?

We lost the best of the best. It was a blow to the heart to hear the news this morning.
So many boys who were at the top of their game.
There are some sad families tonight.
 
I work with a guy who was in Vietnam. He told me straight up we slaughtered the slant eyes and won every battle fought. It was a defeat only in Washington, where the generals were not allowing the commanders on the ground to attack in the ways they knew they needed to to win. They were given stupid targets to attack and had to disobey orders to attack what they KNEW would cause damage to the enemy. He said we had the capability of leveling Vietnam but we restrained ourselves.

We didn't lose that war on the ground, only in Washington.
Bravo you right on the money with this one, while I was on active duty in the USMC, all my SNCO's where Vietnam vets and they would concur with your post.
 
We lost the best of the best. It was a blow to the heart to hear the news this morning.
So many boys who were at the top of their game.
There are some sad families tonight.
I agree, and my question is why so many on one chopper?
 
This is because we went to play at war 10 years ago with an enemy who will never give up unless they're dead. Oh they may claim they'll negotiate, blah, blah, blah, bovine scatology.

If you go to war you need to have a clear understanding what it takes to win straight up, no excuses, no half measures or BS.

I feel awful for the families of those who died needlessly in the choppe crash and since this whole thing started, including in Iraq.

May they all find peace on the otherside.

More bad news on this from AP. This chopper was carrying SEAL Team Six who in my mind should not have been sent back because they were no doubt targeted.

This really sucks.
 
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This is because we went to play at war 10 years ago with an enemy who will never give up unless they're dead. Oh they may claim they'll negotiate, blah, blah, blah, bovine scatology.

If you go to war you need to have a clear understanding what it takes to win straight up, no excuses, no half measures or BS.

I feel awful for the families of those who died needlessly in the choppe crash and since this whole thing started, including in Iraq.

May they all find peace on the otherside.
Well said councilman, I completely agree with you.
 
Chinook is a big ass chopper.
absolutely it is, I used to ride on the USMC equivalent or close to it CH-53 sea stallion, although in a combat zone and in regards to spec. ops, my orders would be not 25 on one chopper but only 10 per chopper, use three helo's. BTW the Chinooks need to be retired.
 
This is utterly heartbreaking. To lose so many of our heroes all at once, my god 31 of them... it's a national tragedy. When I heard the news, I actually fought off tears. These brave men of SEAL Team 6 took out America's most hated enemy. We cheered them, showered them with praise. Now some or all of them are dead, and it makes my heart literally ache with sadness.

My condolences to their families, and to the nation which they so valiantly served. The made the ultimate sacrifice. Our country has suffered a great loss.

And for those of you, you know who you are, who couldn't be bothered for two seconds to memorialize, show sadness for this horrific loss and respect for those brave men who died because you didn't want to waste a single moment of your precious time when you'd rather be exploiting the tragedy for your own political agendas, shame on you and **** the hell off. :2mad:
 
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This is utterly heartbreaking. To lose so many of our heroes all at once, my god 31 of them... it's a national tragedy. When I heard the news, I actually fought off tears. These brave men of SEAL Team 6 took out America's most hated enemy. We cheered them, showered them with praise. Now some or all of them are dead, and it makes my heart literally ache with sadness.

My condolences to their families, and to the nation which they so valiantly served. The made the ultimate sacrifice. Our country has suffered a great loss.

And for those of you, you know who you are, who couldn't be bothered for two seconds to memorialize, show sadness for this horrific loss and respect for those brave men who died because you didn't want to waste a single moment of your precious time when you'd rather be exploiting the tragedy for your own political agendas, shame on you and **** the hell off. :2mad:
nuff said, great post.
 
absolutely it is, I used to ride on the USMC equivalent or close to it CH-53 sea stallion, although in a combat zone and in regards to spec. ops, my orders would be not 25 on one chopper but only 10 per chopper, use three helo's. BTW the Chinooks need to be retired.

I fly fixed-wing, I think all helicopters should be retired. Too low, too slow, too much mechanical crap going on.

I hope they obliterated the bastards who took the shot.
 
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What about the camels?
 
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