United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

Donc · Aug 13, 2011

Quote Misterveritis

Let's explore your attempt.

1)Do you agree or disagree that 70 million versus 69 million is insignificant when speaking of income earners who pay no federal income taxes?

And what part of that post was I responding to? Here’s is a clue. From post #996 :2wave:

(The article you referenced goes on to say that many will get money rather than pay money.)

2) Do you agree or disagree that federal income taxes are a specific category of taxes that are separate from all other taxes one might be exposed to?

n/a

3) Do you agree or disagree that most on the left want the people already paying the federal income tax to pay more. To pay, "their fair share", while at the same time arguing that people who do not pay any federal income tax should not have to because they pay some other taxes?

n/a

4) Do you agree or disagree that half of the people are not exempt from, say the payroll tax, or social security taxes, or Medicare taxes?

n/a

Misterveritis · Aug 13, 2011

AdamT said:
Yeah, it also says that about 70% of those who didn't pay income tax earn less than $50k/yr. You think the rich folks are going to start a revolution to squeeze a few hundred bucks out of'em? Probably not the 1,000 millionaires who paid no income tax.

I think those of us who are paying nearly all of the taxes are going to rebel against a system that is so obviously slanted against the productive.

This is about the fairness of a system that takes more and more from about half of us to give more and more to the other half of us. You are riding in a wagon being pulled by others. It is time to get out of the wagon and start pulling your own load.

I am sure that some of the 69 million, including some of the 1,000 millionaires are actually small businesses reporting their income as individuals. But many others are simply freeloaders.

Conservative · Aug 13, 2011

AdamT said:
No, I think they could pay a little. Just a little. Ending all of the Bush tax cuts would do the trick.

So when was the last time that Congress ever cut spending? You are so naive if you believe that raising taxes is going to cause a reduction in the deficit. it will increase spending

Misterveritis · Aug 13, 2011

donc said:
And what part of that post was I responding to? Here’s is a clue. From post #996 :2wave:

(The article you referenced goes on to say that many will get money rather than pay money.)

n/a
n/a
n/a

Non responsive. No problem.

winston53660 · Aug 13, 2011

Conservative said:
So when was the last time that Congress ever cut spending? You are so naive if you believe that raising taxes is going to cause a reduction in the deficit. it will increase spending

But Rogers is still wrong. From 1981 to 1982, non-defense discretionary spending declined by $9.93 billion. Adjusted for inflation, that’s about $22.7 billion in today’s dollars. The current budget cut is not "five times larger" than that, as Rogers claimed.

Biggest Budget Cut in U.S. History? | FactCheck.org

d r o d r o
97th 1981-1983 46 53 1 242 192 1

Political Division of US Congress, Party Makeup of Congress since 1959 - Republicans and Democrats- The Mill Magazine

Conservative · Aug 13, 2011

winston53660 said:
But Rogers is still wrong. From 1981 to 1982, non-defense discretionary spending declined by $9.93 billion. Adjusted for inflation, that’s about $22.7 billion in today’s dollars. The current budget cut is not "five times larger" than that, as Rogers claimed.

Biggest Budget Cut in U.S. History? | FactCheck.org

d r o d r o
97th 1981-1983 46 53 1 242 192 1

Political Division of US Congress, Party Makeup of Congress since 1959 - Republicans and Democrats- The Mill Magazine

So Reagan cut spending? Thanks for that information

winston53660 · Aug 13, 2011

Conservative said:
So Reagan cut spending? Thanks for that information

So now you want to switch from talking about Congress to the President?

AdamT · Aug 13, 2011

Conservative said:
So Reagan cut spending? Thanks for that information

No, Reagan spent like a drunken sailor. His military spending more than made up for any cuts to non-defense discretionary spending.

RiverDad · Aug 13, 2011

AdamT said:
No, Reagan spent like a drunken sailor. His military spending more than made up for any cuts to non-defense discretionary spending.

Is that the appropriate yardstick? Then FDR spent like a heroin junkie with his military spending.

Conservative · Aug 13, 2011

AdamT said:
No, Reagan spent like a drunken sailor. His military spending more than made up for any cuts to non-defense discretionary spending.

Really? Since Reagan added 1.7 trillion to the debt and Obama has added 4 trillion better reconsider who is the drunken sailor. I doubt you were old enough during the Reagan years to have a clue

AdamT · Aug 13, 2011

RiverDad said:
Is that the appropriate yardstick? Then FDR spent like a heroin junkie with his military spending.

Yep, and Bush spent like a crack whore who paid for her rock on credit.

RiverDad · Aug 13, 2011

AdamT said:
Yep, and Bush spent like a crack whore who paid for her rock on credit.

And Obama is spending like he's a showgirl with a sugar daddies credit card. And round and round we go.

AdamT · Aug 13, 2011

Conservative said:
Really? Since Reagan added 1.7 trillion to the debt and Obama has added 4 trillion better reconsider who is the drunken sailor. I doubt you were old enough during the Reagan years to have a clue

Several problems: one, over a trillion dollars that you're attributing to Obama actually belongs to Bush. Two, you aren't using constant dollars. In today's dollars, Reagan added about $3.5 trillion -- not 1.7 trillion. Three, you also have to look at relative GDP. Four, Reagan raised taxes multiple times in order to bring the deficit down.

pbrauer · Aug 13, 2011

Conservative said:
Look, you want to pay more in taxes, put your money where your mouth is and send in more money. Instead you would rather spread your misery equally to everyone else.

Why do you dodge Bruce Bartlett blog post, he was Reagan's domestic policy adviser?

Conservative · Aug 13, 2011

AdamT said:
Several problems: one, over a trillion dollars that you're attributing to Obama actually belongs to Bush. Two, you aren't using constant dollars. In today's dollars, Reagan added about $3.5 trillion -- not 1.7 trillion. Three, you also have to look at relative GDP. Four, Reagan raised taxes multiple times in order to bring the deficit down.

That is your opinion but it really doesn't matter, the deficit is on Obama's watch and Bush had nothing to do with the 3 trillion in deficits from 2010-2011. Love how liberals use today's dollars to evaluate what happened in the 80's. Take that to the electorate in 2012 along with trying to compare Obama to Reagan. One of these days you are going to realize how little you know. Hope I am around to see it. Your support for Obama tells me a lot about you.

pbrauer · Aug 13, 2011

Conservative said:
That is your opinion but it really doesn't matter, the deficit is on Obama's watch and Bush had nothing to do with the 3 trillion in deficits from 2010-2011. Love how liberals use today's dollars to evaluate what happened in the 80's. Take that to the electorate in 2012 along with trying to compare Obama to Reagan. One of these days you are going to realize how little you know. Hope I am around to see it. Your support for Obama tells me a lot about you.

It tells me that he's not going to vote for a Right Wing nutcase.

Conservative · Aug 13, 2011

pbrauer said:
Why do you dodge Bruce Bartlett blog post, he was Reagan's domestic policy adviser?

Because it is irrelevant today and it doesn't tell the entire story. Reagan cut Income taxes on all taxpayers and never increased income taxes. Tax increases during the Reagan years were use taxes as well as SS which the taxapayers will get back. Amazing how someone your age is so concerned about tax revenue to the govt. but have so little concern for the taxpayer who generated those taxdollars. What does Reagan have to do with the thread topic. Didn't Obama inherit a triple A rating from Bush? I also believe Reagan had a triple A credit rating as well. Obama saw that rating drop

Conservative · Aug 13, 2011

pbrauer said:
It tells me that he's not going to vote for a Right Wing nutcase.

Since Obama has a 42% job approval rating and dropping, looks like a "rightwing nutcase" beats the alternative. This is what will be on the ballot in 2012. This country wasn't built on the Obama vision and the majority understand it.

Obama economic results in 2011, .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011, 24+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011, 4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years, and a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating. Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.67. First President in U.S. History to have our credit downgraded on his watch!

AdamT · Aug 13, 2011

Conservative said:
That is your opinion but it really doesn't matter, the deficit is on Obama's watch and Bush had nothing to do with the 3 trillion in deficits from 2010-2011. Love how liberals use today's dollars to evaluate what happened in the 80's. Take that to the electorate in 2012 along with trying to compare Obama to Reagan. One of these days you are going to realize how little you know. Hope I am around to see it. Your support for Obama tells me a lot about you.

Of course you have to use constant dollars if you're comparing spending in different decades. That's economics 101. Or pre-economics 101, actually.

Naturally Obama did not come into office wanting to spend nearly a trillion dollars fighting an inherited recession, any more than he wanted to pay for winding down of a war he opposed. Nor did he want to extend the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. But you play the cards you're dealt.

Conservative · Aug 13, 2011

AdamT said:
Of course you have to use constant dollars if you're comparing spending in different decades. That's economics 101. Or pre-economics 101, actually.

Naturally Obama did not come into office wanting to spend nearly a trillion dollars fighting an inherited recession, any more than he wanted to pay for winding down of a war he opposed. Nor did he want to extend the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. But you play the cards you're dealt.

That is why you don't compare different decades but liberals always do it to divert from the present. The Obama record is indefensible.

Why would it cost more to wind down the wars? the recession ended in June 2009 so Obama didn't spend trillions of dollars to end the recession. What Obama did was prolong the problem. Never in our history has the economic results been this bad two years after the end of a recession showing that OBama doesn't have a clue nor does his supporters.

Obama economic results in 2011, .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011, 24+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011, 4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years, and a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating. Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.67. First President in U.S. History to have our credit downgraded on his watch!

AdamT · Aug 13, 2011

Conservative said:
Because it is irrelevant today and it doesn't tell the entire story. Reagan cut Income taxes on all taxpayers and never increased income taxes. Tax increases during the Reagan years were use taxes as well as SS which the taxapayers will get back. Amazing how someone your age is so concerned about tax revenue to the govt. but have so little concern for the taxpayer who generated those taxdollars. What does Reagan have to do with the thread topic. Didn't Obama inherit a triple A rating from Bush? I also believe Reagan had a triple A credit rating as well. Obama saw that rating drop

Reagan raised payroll taxes, he instituted the largest corporate tax hike in history, and he raised the gas tax. In all, he raised taxes 11 times. Even his initial tax cut wasn't really a tax cut for many people, who ended up paying more after all of the loopholes were removed.

Conservative · Aug 13, 2011

AdamT said:
Reagan raised payroll taxes, he instituted the largest corporate tax hike in history, and he raised the gas tax. In all, he raised taxes 11 times. Even his initial tax cut wasn't really a tax cut for many people, who ended up paying more after all of the loopholes were removed.

Payroll taxes ARE SS and Medicare. As I stated all the tax increases were use taxes. Don't drive and you don't pay gasoline taxes. Gasoline taxes are for infrastructure and roads, something liberals don't seem to understand. Never thought I would see a liberal worried about corporate tax increases. As for the income tax cut, not sure where you get your information but those taxes were indeed real. Better get a new textbook because the one you are using has failed you.

AdamT · Aug 13, 2011

Conservative said:
That is why you don't compare different decades but liberals always do it to divert from the present. The Obama record is indefensible.

Why would it cost more to wind down the wars? the recession ended in June 2009 so Obama didn't spend trillions of dollars to end the recession. What Obama did was prolong the problem. Never in our history has the economic results been this bad two years after the end of a recession showing that OBama doesn't have a clue nor does his supporters.

Obviously you have to compare the present to the past if you want to learn anything from the past. But I agree that conservatives are miserable at learning lessons from the past.

Obama spent around $800 billion on the stimulus -- to end the recession, and hundreds of billions dealing with the effects of the recession (extended unemployment, etc.). Of course he also had substantially less revenue coming in as a result of the recession, which had a huge impact on his deficits.

The Great Recession lasted about two years. The Great Depression lasted about 10 years. I'd say Obama did pretty well.

AdamT · Aug 13, 2011

Conservative said:
Payroll taxes ARE SS and Medicare. As I stated all the tax increases were use taxes. Don't drive and you don't pay gasoline taxes. Gasoline taxes are for infrastructure and roads, something liberals don't seem to understand. Never thought I would see a liberal worried about corporate tax increases. As for the income tax cut, not sure where you get your information but those taxes were indeed real. Better get a new textbook because the one you are using has failed you.

The point is that Reagan raised taxes time and time again, essentially cutting in half his initial tax cut which was totally unsustainable.

You claim to have worked during Reagan's presidency but you don't recall all of the loopholes that were eliminated? He wiped out many deductions that ended up costing many people more in taxes than they saved from the rate cuts.

"[Reagan] eventually endorsed the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982. According to a Treasury Department analysis, it raised taxes by close to one percent of GDP, equivalent to $150 billion per year today, and was probably the largest peacetime tax increase in American history."

Conservative · Aug 13, 2011

AdamT said:
Obviously you have to compare the present to the past if you want to learn anything from the past. But I agree that conservatives are miserable at learning lessons from the past.

Obama spent around $800 billion on the stimulus -- to end the recession, and hundreds of billions dealing with the effects of the recession (extended unemployment, etc.). Of course he also had substantially less revenue coming in as a result of the recession, which had a huge impact on his deficits.

The Great Recession lasted about two years. The Great Depression lasted about 10 years. I'd say Obama did pretty well.

Obama told you he spent 800 billion to end the recession but very little of that money was spent in 2009 and the recession ended in June so where was the benefit for that spending?

He had less revenue coming in because he did absolutely nothing to grow employment thus create taxpayers. He bailed out unions and other state jobs which isn't in his job description.

You want to give Obama credit for ending the recession but ignore the results since the end of that recession. Did GW Bush sneak back into the WH and generate 2011 results? Do you realize how foolish you look and what a bad case of BDS you have? Not sure why?

42% of the people in this country now think Obama is doing a good job. You are in that group. Over 50% now state they will not vote for him. Ever think you could be wrong in your assessment of Obama and the majority right? Bush has a higher approval rating today than Obama

Obama economic results in 2011, .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011, 24+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011, 4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years, and a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating. Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.67. First President in U.S. History to have our credit downgraded on his watch!