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United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

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That logic doesn't work? I guess not when your sole intention is to place blame on someone else. But anyone thinking clearly, should be able to see the blame belongs clearing on Democrats shoulders.

you want added tax revenue....... allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire would have done that .... do you agree ... or disagree?

At the time they were set to expire, the Dem's controlled everything, the house, senate, and the white house. No debate there .. that's fact

No vote was needed for the cuts to expire, and there was nothing every republican in the entire world, could have done to stop them from expiring. that is another fact you can't dispute.

It was the Dem's and the Dem's alone that moved to bring about a vote on extending them.

Then 7 months later .. we have liberals like yourself .. coming around blaming Republicans for being against raising taxes ... and you say that's not logical ??

The logic that doesn't work is that you think because they didn't allow them to expire shows that the revenue wasn't needed. No, there are often several reasons for something, and you cannot ignore the polticial. I don't agree with what democrats did, or more rightly didn't do, but let's not pretend it was because we didn't need the revenue.

BTW, aren't you the only one in this conversation trying to place blame?
 
Cut spending back to 2008 levels and then we can talk about tax increases. First let's start with those not paying any FIT to pay something. Then put the 25 million unemployed or under employed Americans back to work paying more in taxes. Until that happens, screw liberalism and the massive expansion of the nanny state.

Do both at the same time. There was and is no reason it can't be done.
 
You're not paying attention. And business holding a state hostage, getting all kinds of breaks, and than shipping jobs overseas anyway, for the low, low, low wages, cannot not be appeased enough. We've seen states elminate taxes altogether and still see business leave.

And before you bring up Texas, you might want to look at Texas just a little closer. The state is hardly paradise.

Okay so Texas is hardly a paradise, remember that next time you see liberals touting the jobs created under Obama ..... and remember that those jobs created in Texas then shouldn't count in the over all numbers ..... because after all .. that Texas is such a conservative strong hold .. and such a terrible place to be ... you surely won't want to count those jobs created in Texas to count right ?
 
Insults aside, there are problems with having no restrictions on business and asking no contribution to the society that supports them.

And you might want to check out some factual numbers efecting the rest of your fellow texans.


Texas on the Brink 2011

Texas on the Brink
How Texas Ranks Among the 50 States
February 2011 ~ Fifth Edition
Originally Created by State Senator Eliot Shapleigh
Download Texas on the Brink
Since 1836, Texas has stood as an icon of the American dream.
Blessed with land, rivers, oil, and other abundant natural resources, early Texas welcomed everyone from cattle ranchers to braceros, from cotton farmers to Chinese railroad workers. These pioneers built a great state, and together we fulfilled a destiny.
From humble beginnings, we built a state with the firm belief that every Texan might rise as high and as far as their spirit, hard work, and talent might carry them. With education and determination every Texan might achieve great success – home ownership, reliable healthcare, safe neighborhoods, and financial prosperity.
In Texas today, the American dream is distant. Texas has the highest percentage of uninsured children in the nation. Texas is dead last in the percentage of residents with their high school diploma and near last in SAT scores. Texas has America’s dirtiest air. If we do not change course, for the first time in our history, the Texas generation of tomorrow will be less prosperous than the generation of today.
Without the courage to invest in the minds of our children and steadfast support for great schools, we face a daunting prospect. Those who value tax cuts over children and budget cuts over college have put Texas at risk in her ability to compete and succeed.
Let us not forget that the business of Texas is Texans. To ‘Close the Gap’ in Texas, we must graduate more of our best and brightest with the skills to succeed in a world based on knowledge. If we invest in our greatest resource – our children – Texas will be the state of the future. If we do not, Texas will only fall further behind.
Texas is on the brink, but Texas can do better. The choice is ours.


Texas On the Brink
 
Insults aside, there are problems with having no restrictions on business and asking no contribution to the society that supports them.

And you might want to check out some factual numbers efecting the rest of your fellow texans.

There are 25 million unemployed or under employed Americans today, how does a tax increase put them back to work?

As for Texans, all you have to do is look at the November 2010 election results. Get back to me when you do?
 
Okay so Texas is hardly a paradise, remember that next time you see liberals touting the jobs created under Obama ..... and remember that those jobs created in Texas then shouldn't count in the over all numbers ..... because after all .. that Texas is such a conservative strong hold .. and such a terrible place to be ... you surely won't want to count those jobs created in Texas to count right ?

Nope, not what I said. Try again.

:coffeepap
 
There are 25 million unemployed or under employed Americans today, how does a tax increase put them back to work?

As for Texans, all you have to do is look at the November 2010 election results. Get back to me when you do?

Didn't say it would, never ahve, which boggles the mind why you keep the same repeating this. However, as we see, tax cuts won't provide them either. There is no evidence tax cuts create jobs, and I have linked that repeatedly for you.

And the results of the election won't answer the factual issue I put before you.
 
Texas on the Brink 2011

Texas on the Brink
How Texas Ranks Among the 50 States
February 2011 ~ Fifth Edition
Originally Created by State Senator Eliot Shapleigh
Download Texas on the Brink
Since 1836, Texas has stood as an icon of the American dream.
Blessed with land, rivers, oil, and other abundant natural resources, early Texas welcomed everyone from cattle ranchers to braceros, from cotton farmers to Chinese railroad workers. These pioneers built a great state, and together we fulfilled a destiny.
From humble beginnings, we built a state with the firm belief that every Texan might rise as high and as far as their spirit, hard work, and talent might carry them. With education and determination every Texan might achieve great success – home ownership, reliable healthcare, safe neighborhoods, and financial prosperity.
In Texas today, the American dream is distant. Texas has the highest percentage of uninsured children in the nation. Texas is dead last in the percentage of residents with their high school diploma and near last in SAT scores. Texas has America’s dirtiest air. If we do not change course, for the first time in our history, the Texas generation of tomorrow will be less prosperous than the generation of today.
Without the courage to invest in the minds of our children and steadfast support for great schools, we face a daunting prospect. Those who value tax cuts over children and budget cuts over college have put Texas at risk in her ability to compete and succeed.
Let us not forget that the business of Texas is Texans. To ‘Close the Gap’ in Texas, we must graduate more of our best and brightest with the skills to succeed in a world based on knowledge. If we invest in our greatest resource – our children – Texas will be the state of the future. If we do not, Texas will only fall further behind.
Texas is on the brink, but Texas can do better. The choice is ours.


Texas On the Brink

How did the November 2010 elections turn out? Seems that people who grew up here have no concept of what it is like elsewhere. I do. I moved from the Midwest, travel back and forth often and see the difference. Love living in TX, too bad you don't.

As for education spending, if spending is a problem, then let the school districts raise their own money instead of having the taxpayers from other areas of the state pay for their expenses. Just another thing I like about TX, a state that is telling its school districts raise your own money or live within what the taxpayers all over the state send you.
 
The logic that doesn't work is that you think because they didn't allow them to expire shows that the revenue wasn't needed. No, there are often several reasons for something, and you cannot ignore the polticial. I don't agree with what democrats did, or more rightly didn't do, but let's not pretend it was because we didn't need the revenue.

BTW, aren't you the only one in this conversation trying to place blame?

You're right I'm trying to place blame squarely where it belongs .. on the shoulders of those people that had to do nothing .. no vote .. no debate .. . nothing .. and the increase in revenue, that liberals are now blaming on Republicans for lowering our credit rating would never have happened. At least not for a needed increase in revenue as liberals are stating.

Them not allowing them to expire .... cannot be blamed in any way shape or form on Repblicans ..... that is a simple fact ...
 
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Texas on the Brink 2011

Texas on the Brink
How Texas Ranks Among the 50 States
February 2011 ~ Fifth Edition
Originally Created by State Senator Eliot Shapleigh
Download Texas on the Brink
Since 1836, Texas has stood as an icon of the American dream.
Blessed with land, rivers, oil, and other abundant natural resources, early Texas welcomed everyone from cattle ranchers to braceros, from cotton farmers to Chinese railroad workers. These pioneers built a great state, and together we fulfilled a destiny.
From humble beginnings, we built a state with the firm belief that every Texan might rise as high and as far as their spirit, hard work, and talent might carry them. With education and determination every Texan might achieve great success – home ownership, reliable healthcare, safe neighborhoods, and financial prosperity.
In Texas today, the American dream is distant. Texas has the highest percentage of uninsured children in the nation. Texas is dead last in the percentage of residents with their high school diploma and near last in SAT scores. Texas has America’s dirtiest air. If we do not change course, for the first time in our history, the Texas generation of tomorrow will be less prosperous than the generation of today.
Without the courage to invest in the minds of our children and steadfast support for great schools, we face a daunting prospect. Those who value tax cuts over children and budget cuts over college have put Texas at risk in her ability to compete and succeed.
Let us not forget that the business of Texas is Texans. To ‘Close the Gap’ in Texas, we must graduate more of our best and brightest with the skills to succeed in a world based on knowledge. If we invest in our greatest resource – our children – Texas will be the state of the future. If we do not, Texas will only fall further behind.
Texas is on the brink, but Texas can do better. The choice is ours.


Texas On the Brink

Well, you can't consider this, look at the whole picture, not when you want to score partisan points. ;)

Thanks.
 
Didn't say it would, never ahve, which boggles the mind why you keep the same repeating this. However, as we see, tax cuts won't provide them either. There is no evidence tax cuts create jobs, and I have linked that repeatedly for you.

And the results of the election won't answer the factual issue I put before you.

so elections results are factual?

You want to raise taxes so the question is obvious, with 25 million unemployed or under employed Americans how does raising taxes put those people back to work paying taxes and giving that revenue you want so badly?
 
You're right I'm trying to place blame squarely where it belongs .. on the shoulders of those people that had to do nothing .. no vote .. no debate .. . nothing .. and the increase in revenue, that is now blamed on Republicans for lowering our credit rating ..

Them not allowing them to expire .... cannot be blamed in any way shape or form on Repblicans ..... that is a simple fact ...

This would be good if it had anythign to do with what I'm arguing. What the democrats did or didn't do, for which they hold blame, does not all of the sudden release republicans from their role later on. I argue both hold blame. And I think that is easily supported.

:coffeepap
 
How does a tax cut put them back to work?

Puts more money into the hands of the consumer and that makes it easier for economic growth and thus job creation. Happens all the time unless you bury your money in a tin can in the backyard
 
This would be good if it had anythign to do with what I'm arguing. What the democrats did or didn't do, for which they hold blame, does not all of the sudden release republicans from their role later on. I argue both hold blame. And I think that is easily supported.

:coffeepap

You seem to ignore the benefits of keeping more of what you earn and apparently believe sending more money to the bureaucrats that created the 14.5 trillion dollar debt makes sense. I don't. Cut spending first back to at least 2008 levels and then we can talk about tax hikes.
 
so elections results are factual?

You want to raise taxes so the question is obvious, with 25 million unemployed or under employed Americans how does raising taxes put those people back to work paying taxes and giving that revenue you want so badly?

Not concerning the issue we're discussing, no. A vote can't tell us what the reality of a situation is. For example, if a majority voted to ban all guns, would the 2nd amendment no longer be relevent? The vote could not tells us what the 2nd amendment said or meant.

Do you even read the responses you get? Let me repeat for you:

Didn't say it would, never have, which boggles the mind why you keep the same repeating this. However, as we see, tax cuts won't provide them either. There is no evidence tax cuts create jobs, and I have linked that repeatedly for you.
 
Puts more money into the hands of the consumer and that makes it easier for economic growth and thus job creation. Happens all the time unless you bury your money in a tin can in the backyard

Not enough money, and the wealthy largely don't spend it. I've linked those studies for you in the past as well. :coffeepap
 
Not concerning the issue we're discussing, no. A vote can't tell us what the reality of a situation is. For example, if a majority voted to ban all guns, would the 2nd amendment no longer be relevent? The vote could not tells us what the 2nd amendment said or meant.

Do you even read the responses you get? Let me repeat for you:

A vote tells us the attitude of Texans who apparently have a different view of the state than you have. Wonder what makes you more of an expert than the voters. Let me know when you find that the Texas voters have violated the Constitution?

There is a better chance of tax cuts putting people back to work than tax hikes, simple logic and common sense. So many here haven't a clue as to the four components of GDP so figure it out and get back to me.
 
Not enough money, and the wealthy largely don't spend it. I've linked those studies for you in the past as well. :coffeepap

whether the spend it or save it doesn't matter, both help the economy as long as they don't bury it in their mattresses. Investment capital comes from where?
 
whether the spend it or save it doesn't matter, both help the economy as long as they don't bury it in their mattresses. Investment capital comes from where?

Not so much, no. Jobs only come when there is spending.
 
A vote tells us the attitude of Texans who apparently have a different view of the state than you have. Wonder what makes you more of an expert than the voters. Let me know when you find that the Texas voters have violated the Constitution?

There is a better chance of tax cuts putting people back to work than tax hikes, simple logic and common sense. So many here haven't a clue as to the four components of GDP so figure it out and get back to me.

yes, attitudes, but not facts on the issues. A person may very well, and often does, vote in ways that are contrary to their best interest.

And again, simple logic still has to be backed by actual facts, and the actual facts do not support the assumtion that tax cuts create jobs. Sorry. :coffeepap
 
This would be good if it had anythign to do with what I'm arguing. What the democrats did or didn't do, for which they hold blame, does not all of the sudden release republicans from their role later on. I argue both hold blame. And I think that is easily supported.

:coffeepap

The very simple truth is, something that so call conservative politicians had gone away from, but are returning to (hopefully) is the conservative view is smaller more efficient government, with less spending and lower taxes for all.

So you are asking them to once again go against their core value, and I can understand that, because if they do, they will be voted out of office again. Something the liberals need to have happen to continue with their tax and spend policy, that they have never gotten away from.

I could see one way of raising taxes, and I can't take credit for it .. someone else posted it, and the more I thought about it .. the more I liked it.......... by law, make any tax increase go directly to the principal of our debt, can't be spent any other way. In my opinion, that will be the only way to get a tax increase passed.
 
yes, attitudes, but not facts on the issues. A person may very well, and often does, vote in ways that are contrary to their best interest.

And again, simple logic still has to be backed by actual facts, and the actual facts do not support the assumtion that tax cuts create jobs. Sorry. :coffeepap

Nor can tax increases be tied to creating jobs..... so just like the government ... we are stuck with what we have
 
yes, attitudes, but not facts on the issues. A person may very well, and often does, vote in ways that are contrary to their best interest.

And again, simple logic still has to be backed by actual facts, and the actual facts do not support the assumtion that tax cuts create jobs. Sorry. :coffeepap

What is in the liberal DNA that makes them experts on every issue? The election results of Nov. 2010 put more Conservatives in positiion of power than ever before. It was a wave election Guess the people of TX are just plain miserable that they have no problem wanting more of that misery. Does it ever cross your mind that the partisan op ed pieces that you believe shine a bad light on TX could be wrong?
 
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