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United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

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The Prof said:
Obama: "No Such Thing as Shovel-Ready Projects" - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
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The liberal cult followers will always buy another liberal's rhetoric because that is what they want to believe. Not sure what you call that but I wonder what it is that leads to this kind of loyalty. Rhetoric trumps actual results as Obama supporters totally ignore the failures of this Administration and continue to buy what he says even though what he says has been proven to be a lie.

Obama economic results in 2011, .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011, 24+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011, 4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years, and a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating. Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.67. First President in U.S. History to have our credit downgraded on his watch!
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PzKfW IVe,

Before the system went down:

My Email said:
---Quote (Originally by pbrauer)---
What is the interest on Treasury Bills these days?
---End Quote---
Leave it to to ask a question that nullifies your point.
T-bill rates are down.

*US Treasury Bonds Rates*
Mat TD YD LW LM
3 Mn 0.00 0.01 0.01 0.00
6 Mn 0.03 0.03 0.03 0.05
2 Yr 0.18 0.19 0.32 0.35
3 Yr 0.32 0.34 0.51 0.60
5 Yr 0.91 1.00 1.26 1.47
10yr 2.11 2.24 2.61 2.92
30yr 3.51 3.61 3.90 4.21

Bonds Center - Bond quotes, news, screeners and education information. (Bonds Center - Bond quotes, news, screeners and education information.)
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Please explain how the rates on Treasury Bills going down nullifies my point about high interest rates on poor risks. :confused:
 
Conservative said:
The liberal cult followers will always buy another liberal's rhetoric because that is what they want to believe. Not sure what you call that but I wonder what it is that leads to this kind of loyalty. Rhetoric trumps actual results as Obama supporters totally ignore the failures of this Administration and continue to buy what he says even though what he says has been proven to be a lie.
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Reagan, or at least his economic team, was smart enough to realize that he went too far cutting taxes, which is why he subsequently raised taxes almost 10 times. Now the refusal to raise taxes has become a religion rather than an economic issue.
 
Conservative said:
The liberal cult followers will always buy another liberal's rhetoric because that is what they want to believe....
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cults tend to believe in extremism and refuse to compromise on their beliefs (increased tax-rates for the rich or simply closing tax-loopholes). they vehemently attack members who dare to stray from their extremist views (RINOs).

so who exactly is the cult?
 
nijato said:
Have you ever considered the possibility that massive wealth accumulation is in fact not "achievement" but a pathology?
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Why would that even been important? The question isn't how the money was gained, but whether the government should have the right to penalize people that haven't committed a crime.
 
Conservative said:
So since deficits are yearly, it is all GW Bush's fault for the trillions added to the debt in 2010-2011? Do you ever accept responsibility for anything? It is amazing how Democrats controlled the entire Congress from 2007 until the end of the Bush term and the recession ended in June 2009 but it is Bush's fault for the results in 2011
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So you agree that since the Republicans have controlled congress during this year they are responsible for the AA+ rating we've received?
What is it about liberalism that creates such loyalty to these results? How do you explain the 3.9 and 3.8% GDP growth in 2010 and then the .4 and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011. Did GW Bush suddenly return to the WH and implement economic policy?
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We just had an economic collapse on a global scale. I don't expect any president to fix it in one term or even 2. This will take at least a decade or more to fully recover from.
 
Standard & Poor's report explaining why they downgraded America's credit-rating only specifically calls out the Republicans for refusing to allow any increased revenue.

They do not call out Obama or the Democrats in Congress for any specific actions.
 
Tettsuo said:
So you agree that since the Republicans have controlled congress during this year they are responsible for the AA+ rating we've received?

We just had an economic collapse on a global scale. I don't expect any president to fix it in one term or even 2. This will take at least a decade or more to fully recover from.
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In no way shape or form, if tax revenue was needed so drastically, then why was the Bush tax cuts extended past 2010? It was a democrat controlled house and senate, that sent the bill to a democrat sitting in the white house to sign to extend those tax cuts that were due to expire, and Obama signed that bill.

Now 7 months later, you sit there and try to blame republicans for refusing to raise taxes? Nice try, but your bull sh*t ... is just that.
 
ksu_aviator said:
Why would that even been important? The question isn't how the money was gained, but whether the government should have the right to penalize people that haven't committed a crime.
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Read the Constitution, Article I, Section 8.
 
The Barbarian said:
In no way shape or form, if tax revenue was needed so drastically, then why was the Bush tax cuts extended past 2010? It was a democrat controlled house and senate, that sent the bill to a democrat sitting in the white house to sign to extend those tax cuts that were due to expire, and Obama signed that bill.

Now 7 months later, you sit there and try to blame republicans for refusing to raise taxes? Nice try, but your bull sh*t ... is just that.
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President made a deal with the Devil (Republicans) that if the Devil would vote for extension of unemployment benefits, he would extend the Bush tax cuts for two years.
 
The Barbarian said:
In no way shape or form, if tax revenue was needed so drastically, then why was the Bush tax cuts extended past 2010? It was a democrat controlled house and senate, that sent the bill to a democrat sitting in the white house to sign to extend those tax cuts that were due to expire, and Obama signed that bill.

Now 7 months later, you sit there and try to blame republicans for refusing to raise taxes? Nice try, but your bull sh*t ... is just that.
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Seriously, are you 7 months old? You don't remember Democrats fighting NOT to extend the top Bush tax cuts? They eventually caved to republicans' demands in order to maintain unemployment extensions and to avoid a shutdown.

Further, there is an enormous difference between cutting taxes when the economy is strong (Bush) and raising taxes when the economy is weak.
 
The Barbarian said:
In no way shape or form, if tax revenue was needed so drastically, then why was the Bush tax cuts extended past 2010? It was a democrat controlled house and senate, that sent the bill to a democrat sitting in the white house to sign to extend those tax cuts that were due to expire, and Obama signed that bill.

Now 7 months later, you sit there and try to blame republicans for refusing to raise taxes? Nice try, but your bull sh*t ... is just that.
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Do you not see the cognitive dissonance in your statement and those of your fellow conservatives?! Can you name one piece of legistation passed by Democrats in congress since 2007 that led to the situation we're in?

I personally blame the Democrats for their cowardice. They didn't act decisively to anything that occurred when they had the chance. This is why I preferred Hillary. She would have struck while the iron was hot and not backed away (I voted for her in the Primaries). Republicans just have terrible ideas, but they rarely run from the fight no matter how dumb their plans are.
 
The Barbarian said:
In no way shape or form, if tax revenue was needed so drastically, then why was the Bush tax cuts extended past 2010? It was a democrat controlled house and senate, that sent the bill to a democrat sitting in the white house to sign to extend those tax cuts that were due to expire, and Obama signed that bill...
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err....the GOP threatened a government shutdown....remember?
 
AdamT said:
...Further, there is an enormous difference between cutting taxes when the economy is strong (Bush) and raising taxes when the economy is weak.
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the GOP even refuses to close tax-loopholes that allows rich people to not pay taxes that they were intended to pay. this tells me that they are against raising tax-rates on the rich AND requiring them to pay the taxes they are supposed to pay.
 
I was remembering how many times on this site that I have heard "No new taxes until the government can prove it can stop spending."

As I was reflecting on this another though occurred to me. If cutting taxes creates jobs, then reinstate the tax and instead offer a tax incentive to those who actually create jobs. Not the Madghiqual Math that so often comes from the Hill, but real additional jobs. Adding 1200 jobs while sending 1200 overseas wouldn't qualify. Net gain is what I am talking about here.

A nice level playing field.
 
The Barbarian said:
In no way shape or form, if tax revenue was needed so drastically, then why was the Bush tax cuts extended past 2010? It was a democrat controlled house and senate, that sent the bill to a democrat sitting in the white house to sign to extend those tax cuts that were due to expire, and Obama signed that bill.

Now 7 months later, you sit there and try to blame republicans for refusing to raise taxes? Nice try, but your bull sh*t ... is just that.
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That logic doesn't work. Politics played more of a role than doing what was right. Anyone thinking clearly would have to agree the best approach is to cut spending and raise taxes. But, as noted above, when the belief in tax cuts becomes like a religion, faith meaning more than actual evidence, politicians tend to appease the beast. It's wrong, for both parties, but that is what happened and not a sign of what proper to do concerning revenue.
 
Thunder said:
cults tend to believe in extremism and refuse to compromise on their beliefs (increased tax-rates for the rich or simply closing tax-loopholes). they vehemently attack members who dare to stray from their extremist views (RINOs).

so who exactly is the cult?
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What kind of compromise is that when you punish one group of people or class? You want revenue, 70 million Income earners are paying zero in Federal Income taxes. Are they paying their fair share?
 
Conservative said:
What kind of compromise is that when you punish one group of people or class? You want revenue, 70 million Income earners are paying zero in Federal Income taxes. Are they paying their fair share?
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Such hyperbole. No one is being punished, least of all the wealthy. :coffeepap
 
Tettsuo said:
So you agree that since the Republicans have controlled congress during this year they are responsible for the AA+ rating we've received?

We just had an economic collapse on a global scale. I don't expect any president to fix it in one term or even 2. This will take at least a decade or more to fully recover from.
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Republicans controlled Congress? Wow, did you ever take a civics class? I expect the President to keep his promises and he hasn't. Not one of his economic predictions has come true.

Obama economic results in 2011, .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011, 24+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011, 4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years, and a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating. Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.67. First President in U.S. History to have our credit downgraded on his watch!
 
Conservative said:
What kind of compromise is that when you punish one group of people or class? You want revenue, 70 million Income earners are paying zero in Federal Income taxes. Are they paying their fair share?
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closing tax-loopholes that allow people to not pay taxes that they should be paying, is a punishment?

looks more like they are getting away with fraud and we need to stop them.
 
AdamT said:
Reagan, or at least his economic team, was smart enough to realize that he went too far cutting taxes, which is why he subsequently raised taxes almost 10 times. Now the refusal to raise taxes has become a religion rather than an economic issue.
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So how much more are you sending into the govt. since you have a problem keeping more of what you earn? How is your income an expense to the govt?
 
Thunder said:
closing tax-loopholes that allow people to not pay taxes that they should be paying, is a punishment?

looks more like they are getting away with fraud and we need to stop them.
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You believe we have a revenue problem so are you sending in more than required from your paycheck? There are tens of millions of Americans making income that pay zero in FIT. Are they paying their fair share?
 
Conservative said:
You believe we have a revenue problem so are you sending in more than required from your paycheck? There are tens of millions of Americans making income that pay zero in FIT. Are they paying their fair share?
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Not what he said. :coffeepap
 
Conservative said:
You believe we have a revenue problem so are you sending in more than required from your paycheck? There are tens of millions of Americans making income that pay zero in FIT. Are they paying their fair share?
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everyone who is above the poverty line should pay some income taxes, IMHO.

and anyone who gets away with not paying FIT that they should be paying due to tax-loopholes, should be required to pay such taxes.

no free rides...especially for folks who don't need them.
 
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