• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

United States loses its AAA Credit rating from S & P

Status
Not open for further replies.
J-Mac you have some serious growing up to do. Not all liberals think alike just as not all conservatives think alike. Some liberals think TARP did good, most don't. Just as some conservatives think gay marriage should be legal and most think it should be illegal. The fact you are so ridiculously partisan to realize that says more about you gor sure and not in a good way.

It's funny how Conservative and Prof blame Obama for the downgrade when it's congress that controls the pursestrings.

I have no doubt if the teabaggers hadn't made this so dysfunctional that we would not have been downgraded. They wanted no increase in the debt, that simply was not possible and even the GOP realized that. But since the teabaggrrs threw a tantrum, the world saw just how bad our government can't get along.

Also amusing that Teabaggers say cuts are necessary but have no problem with Corporate welfare and rewarding companies that send jobs overseas with cuts in taxes.


Oh, I have the growing up to do, yet you are the one in here posting misrepresentations, and calling childish names with a snarky snicker....yeah, I'm the one that needs to grow....:roll::doh

j-mac
 
J-Mac you have some serious growing up to do. Not all liberals think alike just as not all conservatives think alike. Some liberals think TARP did good, most don't. Just as some conservatives think gay marriage should be legal and most think it should be illegal. The fact you are so ridiculously partisan to realize that says more about you gor sure and not in a good way.

It's funny how Conservative and Prof blame Obama for the downgrade when it's congress that controls the pursestrings.

I have no doubt if the teabaggers hadn't made this so dysfunctional that we would not have been downgraded. They wanted no increase in the debt, that simply was not possible and even the GOP realized that. But since the teabaggrrs threw a tantrum, the world saw just how bad our government can't get along.

Also amusing that Teabaggers say cuts are necessary but have no problem with Corporate welfare and rewarding companies that send jobs overseas with cuts in taxes.

I wonder what your attitude would be today if a Republican generated these results 2 1/2 years after taking office?

Obama economic results in 2011, .4% GDP and 1.3% GDP growth in 2011, 24+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011, 4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years, and a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating. Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.67. First President in U.S. History to have our credit downgraded on his watch!

Would you be so patient and defend that Republican like you are defending Obama?

Typical liberal talking points, "corporate welfare", "sending jobs overseas", "tax cuts for the rich." Wonder when liberals will get off the talking points and actually do something constructive for the govt. and that being cutting spending and accepting personal responsibility?
 
how dare you compare the tea party of today with the actual patriots of yesterday. really?


:lamo "How dare you".... :lamo

One can almost envision the pursed lips, and angry brow here can't you?


j-mac
 
Moderator's Warning:
How about EVERYONE stick to the topic rather than giving others advise on their growth habits
 
I wonder what your attitude would be today if a Republican generated these results 2 1/2 years after taking office?



Would you be so patient and defend that Republican like you are defending Obama?

Typical liberal talking points, "corporate welfare", "sending jobs overseas", "tax cuts for the rich." Wonder when liberals will get off the talking points and actually do something constructive for the govt. and that being cutting spending and accepting personal responsibility?

I'm defending Obama ONLY on the credit rating because it was congress actions and inactions for the past couple of decades that put us where we are now and not obamas fault. Sorry but those are the FACTs.

I have fault with many things that Obama has done like the bailouts, health care etc.

I would even be willing to vote in a socially moderate/liberal and fiscally conservative republican. However the GOP likes to put up bible thumpers hell bent on makng gay marriage illegal, marijuanna illegal, and giving the rich cuts while sticking it to the
Middle class and supporting compainies with tax cuts that send jobs overseas.
 
I'm defending Obama ONLY on the credit rating because it was congress actions and inactions for the past couple of decades that put us where we are now and not obamas fault. Sorry but those are the FACTs.

I have fault with many things that Obama has done like the bailouts, health care etc.

I would even be willing to vote in a socially moderate/liberal and fiscally conservative republican. However the GOP likes to put up bible thumpers hell bent on makng gay marriage illegal, marijuanna illegal, and giving the rich cuts while sticking it to the
Middle class and supporting compainies with tax cuts that send jobs overseas.

No, it was Obama lack of leadership that got us to this point. Where was the Obama economic plan that cut spending? Have you seen one on paper?

Glad to see your priorities straight as the economy of this country is being destroyed, Gay Marriage? marijauanna illegal? Interesting priorities as "Rome" burns. Without a strong economy none of your issues are significant.

Do you think keeping more of what you earn is an expense to the govt? How is allowing people to keep more of what they earn "giving people" anything?

Pretty sad that a country built on free enterprise, capitalism has gotten to this point of class warfare and taking from one group to give to another and actiling like that was always the intent of our Founders.
 
Obviously history isn't a strong suit of yours. You buy the talking points of liberals and ignore the actual policies being promoted by today's Tea Party. There is very little difference between the two. Low taxes and small limited Federal govt.

that's kinda funny, since the original tea party was about TEA, and taxation without representation. it was about independence. oh, and monopolies, is that also on the agenda of today's tea partiers? could you show your work please?
 
I'm defending Obama ONLY on the credit rating because it was congress actions and inactions for the past couple of decades that put us where we are now and not obamas fault. Sorry but those are the FACTs.


Yes, nothing is ever Obama's fault....How is it that you can with a straight face even post that?

I tell ya, I might agree that congress is at the heart of the years of over spending, and serious problem we find ourselves in today if it weren't for the simple fact that at the end of the day what ever congress comes up with the President has to sign into law...The buck stops at his desk, and HE has approved the greatest spending spree in history in 3 short years...Yet you absolve him of all responsibility for that don't you? If he had an (R) behind his name your tune would be far different....

I have fault with many things that Obama has done like the bailouts, health care etc.

Why? Because you think they didn't go far enough? We haven't racked up enough debt you need more.

I would even be willing to vote in a socially moderate/liberal and fiscally conservative republican. However the GOP likes to put up bible thumpers hell bent on makng gay marriage illegal, marijuanna illegal, and giving the rich cuts while sticking it to the
Middle class and supporting compainies with tax cuts that send jobs overseas.

MSNBC, DailyKOS talking point pap will not get you out of your own argument here.

j-mac
 
And get it all back in a refund so your net is zero. Is that what liberals believe is fair share?

As compared to GE? Please explain 'fair share' to me again.

Earlier I brought up restoring corporate tax levels to pre-cut eras, and offering incentives right back for those that actually created jobs and it went completely un-noticed. I wonder why that is?
 
that's kinda funny, since the original tea party was about TEA, and taxation without representation. it was about independence. oh, and monopolies, is that also on the agenda of today's tea partiers? could you show your work please?

And let me ask you liblady, you think that some "super-committee" of twelve putzes making decisions that effect all of us is representation?

j-mac
 
As compared to GE? Please explain 'fair share' to me again.

Earlier I brought up restoring corporate tax levels to pre-cut eras, and offering incentives right back for those that actually created jobs and it went completely un-noticed. I wonder why that is?

Because it is not addressing what causes business to keep their money off shore to begin with...It is just more class warfare, that is getting very old.

It's not your money.

j-mac
 
Obviously history isn't a strong suit of yours. You buy the talking points of liberals and ignore the actual policies being promoted by today's Tea Party. There is very little difference between the two. Low taxes and small limited Federal govt.

So you do support slicing HLS and TPA, 800,000 Americans doing nothing but spying on Americans?
 
Because it is not addressing what causes business to keep their money off shore to begin with...It is just more class warfare, that is getting very old.

It's not your money.

j-mac



Bull****. It addresses the talking point very head on. Many claim that lower taxes create jobs, I haven't seen it. This would make it show and tell. After all, if they did create jobs then there would be $0 tax increase. If the government has to show that they can stop spending prior to increasing revenues then corporations need to show that they are creating jobs before they get the tax breaks.
 
Bull****. It addresses the talking point very head on. Many claim that lower taxes create jobs, I haven't seen it. This would make it show and tell. After all, if they did create jobs then there would be $0 tax increase. If the government has to show that they can stop spending prior to increasing revenues then corporations need to show that they are creating jobs before they get the tax breaks.


It is not a quid pro quo situation. The government is restrained by enumerated powers, and restraint that liberals have bastardized through creative interpretation. Government makes no money, creates nothing, it only takes, and spends. I can't see why any businessman worth his salt would agree to bringing money back to these shores knowing full well that the government is going to just take it.

Again it is NOT governments money.

j-mac
 
It is not a quid pro quo situation. The government is restrained by enumerated powers, and restraint that liberals have bastardized through creative interpretation. Government makes no money, creates nothing, it only takes, and spends. I can't see why any businessman worth his salt would agree to bringing money back to these shores knowing full well that the government is going to just take it.

Again it is NOT governments money.

j-mac

So any solution which goes against your talking points is unacceptable? What happened to compromise?

Not the governments money, yet taxes are part of life. Avoid paying your property taxes and try telling the government that it's not their house.

Good luck.
 
As compared to GE? Please explain 'fair share' to me again.

Earlier I brought up restoring corporate tax levels to pre-cut eras, and offering incentives right back for those that actually created jobs and it went completely un-noticed. I wonder why that is?

Corporations do not pay taxes that are across the board. Consumers do. What we need are targeted taxes. I've said this many times with no notice. 35% tax on profits if those profits are derived from items that come from off-shore. 25% if they come from items created here.

Corporations would have a far harder time passing on taxes when the competition has a tax advantage.
 
So any solution which goes against your talking points is unacceptable? What happened to compromise?

Compromise doesn't mean that I have to come completely to your way of thinking does it? I could well ask you the same...Where's your give in this?

Not the governments money, yet taxes are part of life.

So you think that what you earn is what the government allows you to keep?

Avoid paying your property taxes and try telling the government that it's not their house.

Good luck.

Never said that taxes aren't reasonable to some extent. However, it is what we volunteer as citizens living in the freest nation on earth. Having a society that works for the government and is 'allowed' to keep a portion of what they earn in exchange for nanny state control, is not what this country is...That would be Socialism.

In that case there are plenty of countries that would fit your definition just not this one....yet.

j-mac
 
Compromise doesn't mean that I have to come completely to your way of thinking does it? I could well ask you the same...Where's your give in this?



So you think that what you earn is what the government allows you to keep?



Never said that taxes aren't reasonable to some extent. However, it is what we volunteer as citizens living in the freest nation on earth. Having a society that works for the government and is 'allowed' to keep a portion of what they earn in exchange for nanny state control, is not what this country is...That would be Socialism.

In that case there are plenty of countries that would fit your definition just not this one....yet.

j-mac

Instead of just eliminating the corporate tax break and offering back the tax incentive isn't compromise? Feels like it to me.

I think that taxes are a part of life, please do not twist my words to try to score a point.

Aren't taxes a part of the cost of doing business? I am neither a liberal nor a socialist. I am an American seeking a solution before the entire thing tanks.
 
that's kinda funny, since the original tea party was about TEA, and taxation without representation. it was about independence. oh, and monopolies, is that also on the agenda of today's tea partiers? could you show your work please?

Yep, taxation without representation meaning the growth in the size of govt. which was contrary to the principles upon which this nation was founded. Think our Founders would support a 3.7 trillion dollar govt? The agenda of the TEA Party is to cut the size of Govt. and lower taxes. Why is liberalism built on demonization and class warfare?
 
As compared to GE? Please explain 'fair share' to me again.

Earlier I brought up restoring corporate tax levels to pre-cut eras, and offering incentives right back for those that actually created jobs and it went completely un-noticed. I wonder why that is?

You mean that GE that has Jeffrey Immelt as head of Obama's Job creation committee. Tell me how put Immelt on that committee? Why do you demonizing corporations and ignore the good that corporations do, hiring taxpaying employees, contributing significant dollars to communities, being a good corporate citizen. Why is liberalism built on demonization of individuals who make money and corporations who hire people? Obama is the first President in history to see our Credit downgraded on his watch and yet all liberals can do is demonize private business that contributes revenue to the govt.
 
Instead of just eliminating the corporate tax break and offering back the tax incentive isn't compromise? Feels like it to me.

I think that taxes are a part of life, please do not twist my words to try to score a point.

Aren't taxes a part of the cost of doing business? I am neither a liberal nor a socialist. I am an American seeking a solution before the entire thing tanks.

Do you think that 47% of income earners not paying any FIT are paying their fair share? Why demonize others who are paying the most in taxes while ignoring those that pay zero?
 
You mean that GE that has Jeffrey Immelt as head of Obama's Job creation committee. Tell me how put Immelt on that committee? Why do you demonizing corporations and ignore the good that corporations do, hiring taxpaying employees, contributing significant dollars to communities, being a good corporate citizen. Why is liberalism built on demonization of individuals who make money and corporations who hire people? Obama is the first President in history to see our Credit downgraded on his watch and yet all liberals can do is demonize private business that contributes revenue to the govt.

Immelts appointment pissed me right off. I am not a liberal, for the 100th time. I am demonizing no one. Good corporate citizens? By sending jobs to China? By paying $0 in taxes?

Blaming Obama alone for the credit downgrade is just foolish. Both parties are equally responsible and you well know it. Partisan crap like that is sickening and a large part of what is wrong with this country.
 
Do you think that 47% of income earners not paying any FIT are paying their fair share? Why demonize others who are paying the most in taxes while ignoring those that pay zero?



Please. Are you really going to compare people living at or below the poverty line with wealthy corporations? What are they supposed to pay taxes with, forced labor, it's all most of them have.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom