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Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

The Giant Noodle

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Ohhhhhh NOOOO!!!!! This is bad this is BAD!!!!! :scared:

Dow drops 350 points; markets 'fear index' highest since March
Worries about the state of the economy in the U.S. and around the world slammed stocks on Thursday, pushing the Dow down 350 points. Gold and bonds soared as investors sought a safe place to park their money.
The Dow Jones industrials average slid about 3 percent. The broader S&P 500 index was down 10 percent from its May high, putting it in correction territory. The market's so-called "fear index," the CBOE Volatility Index (VIX), jumped 12.8 percent to 26.37, the highest since March.
"The (economic) numbers are not coming in favorably. They haven't been, and this is a reaction to all of that. We're in a major correction..." said Joseph Cangemi, managing director at BNY ConvergEx Group in New York.
Investors are now nervously focused on the crucial monthly jobs data to be released Friday by the Labor Department. Expectations are not high.
CONTINUED: Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy - Business - Stocks & economy - msnbc.com
 
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Yes, thank you Republicans. Much appreciated. Has the term "Hoover Town" been copyrighted?
 
Yes, thank you Republicans. Much appreciated. Has the term "Hoover Town" been copyrighted?

Ask Apple... no wait that would be iHoover Town
 
Yes, thank you Republicans. Much appreciated. Has the term "Hoover Town" been copyrighted?
The fall of the USA continues. No amount of money could buy this much entertainment. :popcorn2:

.
 
350 points is not a big drop. Fluctuations like that happen every day. So the panic is misplaced.

Here is the last two years of stock performance:

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So, yeah, pretty awesome performance. It has doubled since it's low just 6 weeks after Obama took office.
 
350 points is not a big drop. Fluctuations like that happen every day. So the panic is misplaced.

Here is the last two years of stock performance:

View attachment 67114869

So, yeah, pretty awesome performance. It has doubled since it's low just 6 weeks after Obama took office.

NO, fluctuations like this do NOT happen every day....
 
NO, fluctuations like this do NOT happen every day....

At the moment, the DOW is down two hundred and some points for the day. That's not that odd. I'm finding 31 days in the past 2 years where the market moved more than 200 points in a day. About evenly split between down and up, although overall obviously the trend has been way up. Ups tend to come in lots of days with small gains more.
 
At the moment, the DOW is down two hundred and some points for the day. That's not that odd. I'm finding 31 days in the past 2 years where the market moved more than 200 points in a day. About evenly split between down and up, although overall obviously the trend has been way up. Ups tend to come in lots of days with small gains more.

31 days out of 730 days, or 4% = very unusual.

And, as of one minute ago it was down over 300 points and all gains for the year are gone, at least for now.
 
If it was just today it wouldn't be that big a deal but there have been three-figure drops on many days over the last few weeks. All of the savings republicans wanted to force in this debt ceiling fiasco? Just vanished.
 
So the bill gets passed with compromises and bipartisan votes and the republicans get blamed when the markets tank afterwards??
 
31 days out of 730 days, or 4% = very unusual.

And, as of one minute ago it was down over 300 points and all gains for the year are gone, at least for now.

The market is only open 500 days in 2 years, so that's 6%... 1 out of every 16 days... So like once every 3 weeks... No, that is not unusual...
 
If it was just today it wouldn't be that big a deal but there have been three-figure drops on many days over the last few weeks. All of the savings republicans wanted to force in this debt ceiling fiasco? Just vanished.

This has zero to do with the debt ceiling, despite your hyperpartisan attempts to make it so.

The economy is tanking throughout Europe, Spain and Italy are nearing bankruptcy. The recent manufacturing reports didn't help and they've just announced that unemployment claims did not drop below 400,000 last week as previously claimed. If tomorrow's jobless report is bad again, expect the Dow to dive again.

Not helping matters is the fact that our debt shot up 239 billion dollars in one day and borrowing was over 100% of GDP.
 
The market is only open 500 days in 2 years, so that's 6%... 1 out of every 16 days... So like once every 3 weeks... No, that is not unusual...

You keep telling yourself that, maybe it'll make you feel better about the job Obama's doing with the economy.
 
You keep telling yourself that, maybe it'll make you feel better about the job Obama's doing with the economy.

I mean, we're definitely having a disappointing recovery from the recession. The stimulus was enough to stop the recession from getting worse, which was the most important thing, but not really enough to get the economy up and running fast. I, and most economists, think we should have gone further with it. That said, maybe that is as far as government should go in terms of trying to tweak the economy- stopping the bleeding and letting it recover on its own. Maybe in the long run the advantages of more organic growth would outweigh the speed of the recovery. I don't know.

But no matter what the story is with that, obviously he did way, way, better than the Republican alternative. Under Democrats we've had an average of 2.78% growth and only 1.64% growth under Republicans ever since WWII... The whole squeeze the poor and middle class to further enrich the superrich approach to economics is obviously a failure. Those policies created this recession we're talking about remember.
 
This has zero to do with the debt ceiling, despite your hyperpartisan attempts to make it so.

The economy is tanking throughout Europe, Spain and Italy are nearing bankruptcy. The recent manufacturing reports didn't help and they've just announced that unemployment claims did not drop below 400,000 last week as previously claimed. If tomorrow's jobless report is bad again, expect the Dow to dive again.

Not helping matters is the fact that our debt shot up 239 billion dollars in one day and borrowing was over 100% of GDP.

That is incorrect. Of course the debt ceiling contributed to the slide. It has been estimated that the included cuts will lead to hundreds of thousands of job losses and knock .3% off GDP. This is the exact opposite of what the economy needs, which is additional stimulus. The markets take all of these things into account.
 
The fall of the USA continues. No amount of money could buy this much entertainment. :popcorn2:

.

Got new for you - Europe is driving this. We go down, you go down.
 
The gains have been artificial. Gains from things like QE can't last. It's a fallacy to think they can. We are simply getting back to a more normal. One should look at housing and realize that any "fix" is simply an attempt to hide the flaws.

Housing like the markets are going to have to find a natural number devoid of government interference before things can become "normal" again.

Look at how many times Europe has said they have "fixed" their problems only to see the problems resurface two weeks later. If we hadn't tried to "fix" things starting three years ago we would be far closer to "normal" today.
 
The gains have been based on corporate earnings. They are not artificial.
 
That is incorrect. Of course the debt ceiling contributed to the slide. It has been estimated that the included cuts will lead to hundreds of thousands of job losses and knock .3% off GDP. This is the exact opposite of what the economy needs, which is additional stimulus. The markets take all of these things into account.

You're welcome to share your proof of your theory with us. I seriously doubt you have any, at least none from a reputable source.

Got news for you, as Ockham stated, Europe is tanking.
 
The gains have been based on corporate earnings. They are not artificial.

(Admitted simplification). QE floods the market with money. It goes into things like commodities (and we saw things like oil make huge jumps). Yes, corporations like oil companies see large profits off this.

That causes people to spend less on other things because they are spending far more on oil. Economy drags.

It's amazing those who claim that the middle class and poor are getting screwed by the rich but then support the very thing with programs like QE.
 
You're welcome to share your proof of your theory with us. I seriously doubt you have any, at least none from a reputable source.

Got news for you, as Ockham stated, Europe is tanking.

One from your own camp: Market Reacts to Debt Ceiling Increase | Fellowship of the Minds

"“Three main sources of uncertainty have weighed on risky assets in recent weeks: the global growth slowdown, the fiscal crisis in the euro zone and the discussions about the U.S. debt ceiling,” Joost van Leenders, a strategist at BNP Paribas Investment Partners in Amsterdam, who helps oversee about $780 billion, wrote in a report. “This last issue has been solved for now, but the other two came back with a vengeance.”

"Investors nervous about the prospect of a default by the U.S. government pulled money out of all forms of mutual funds, from money-market funds to those that invest in stocks.

U.S. money-market funds experienced $103 billion in redemptions the week ended Aug. 2, the most in one week since the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. in September 2008, according to iMoneyNet, a fund research firm in Westborough, Massachusetts.

Mutual funds that invest in stocks and bonds had net redemptions of $10.4 billion in the week ended July 27, according to an e-mailed statement from the Investment Company Institute, a Washington-based trade group. It was the biggest withdrawal since the week ended May 26, 2010, when investors pulled $17.4 billion, ICI data show."

"Wall Street Journal--

Today’s markets were down because:

1) Debt ceiling. Every day I have to include the debt ceiling as one of the reasons the markets were down, a little piece of me dies. Four days until the Treasury’s deadline and Congress seems to have reached a stalemate. Boehner keeps pushing forward with his bill, and finally has enough votes in the House for it to pass, only to get voted down soon as it reaches the Senate, where Democrats and Republicans alike have vowed they will block it. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is working on a budget plan that has wider support in the Senate, but it has yet to be put to a vote, until which point there’s no knowing which way it will go, especially in the Republican-led House. So in the meantime, we wait and listen to China (NYSE:FXI) complain about the US.


2) GDP. If yesterday’s positive economic news wasn’t enough to counteract the depressing effect of the looming debt ceiling, today’s bad economic news sure isn’t going to help matters. Stocks took a huge dip this morning right out of the gate after the Commerce Department reported GDP grew at an annual rate of 1.3% during the second quarter, well below projections of 1.8% growth. While data like durable goods orders and consumer spending give us an idea of how the economy is progressing, GDP covers the whole kit and kaboodle, and the most recent figures are not good.

3) Treasuries. While short-term Treasuries saw a moderate selling-off on Friday, as would be expected, the price on the benchmark 10-year note (NYSE:TLT) rose, pushing the yield down from 2.91% to 2.78%, the biggest one-day drop since December 2010. Longer-term investors tend to focus more on the economy than more immediate issues like those plaguing Washington at the moment, so the fact that the price of long-term notes is up shows that investors have a positive economic outlook."

"The nonpartisan Economic Policy Institute reports that the debt ceiling deal will reduce GDP by 0.3 percent in 2012. Not good considering current growth of around 1, or 1.5 percent at best. Plus, the real cuts don't kick in until 2013. That means we'll be hitting the serious cuts while teetering on increasingly unstable footing. But that's not the grim news. The EPI is calculating that 1.8 million jobs will be killed in 2012 due to the big debt deal."
 
Anybody else irritated by the phrasing in the title? "Markets pile on losses"...If something is diminishing how is it also piling on?
 
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