• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Stocks pile on losses amid worries on economy

Looks like I'll FINALLY be investing soon.
 
perhaps we should consider making more things in the states and hiring people to make them.

or hire people to rebuild roads and bridges.

or both. and soon.
 
Got new for you - Europe is driving this. We go down, you go down.
What the hell makes you think I am from EU? Being entertained by the demise and especially the partisian hatred on display in the USA does not mean someone is pro-EU. In fact, I fully expect the USA and EU to be joined at the hip in the coming free-fall. Y'all are getting exacly what you deserve. :popcorn2:

.
 
What the hell makes you think I am from EU?
I dont care who you are or where you are... if the EU and the U.S. go down, the world economy goes down, therefore you go down as I will assume you on the Earth and are not an alien posting from space.

You will suffer just like everyone else ... :shrug:
 
Neither are going down but they are going to have to take their lumps. The sooner the better. A few years ago would have been even better.
 
I dont care who you are or where you are... if the EU and the U.S. go down, the world economy goes down, therefore you go down as I will assume you on the Earth and are not an alien posting from space.

You will suffer just like everyone else ... :shrug:

The countries I expect to do well after the US and EU fall apart are Russia, India, and Brazil. China is too connected to the US and has too much social instability.
 
The countries I expect to do well after the US and EU fall apart are Russia, India, and Brazil. China is too connected to the US and has too much social instability.

How will they do well when no one will have money to buy their crap products or be running businesses needing outsources call centers?
 
How will they do well when no one will have money to buy their crap products or be running businesses needing outsources call centers?

"Its new iteration refers to growing trade links between emerging markets that Citigroup Inc. economists Willem Buiter and Ebrahim Rahbari predict will power an increase in worldwide trade in goods and services to $149 trillion in 2030 from $37 trillion in 2010. They estimate that China will usurp the U.S. as the world’s biggest trader within four years.

By 2015, they said, commerce between emerging markets will overtake that within advanced economies and by 2030 that between developed and developing nations. The projections may not be met should free trade fail to take hold, Buiter and Rahbari said in a June 22 report."

Brazil Hits China With Tariffs as Potholes Erode New Silk Road - Bloomberg
 
I dont care who you are or where you are... if the EU and the U.S. go down, the world economy goes down, therefore you go down as I will assume you on the Earth and are not an alien posting from space.

You will suffer just like everyone else ... :shrug:
Wrong again, sweetie. My situatiion is not dependent on a good USA, EU, or even world economy. In fact, the economy tanking will present some great buying opprtunities. ;)

.
 
The problem is not politics. The problem is not even fiscal or monetary, at least not in the traditional sense. The problem is growth.

Infinite growth on a finite planet is not only impossible, it is a logical absurdity. This is an important point: think about it until you understand that it is incontrovertible.

The problem is resource scarcity, or more to the point peak oil. For the last 250 years, civilization has had ever increasing amounts of energy available to grow, diversify, and increase in complexity. Since debt is predicated on the belief in the ability to be repaid in the future, it is the most forward-leaning aspect of a money economy. Therefore, when reasonable, rational people wonder if they will ever be repaid (with money that has any meaningful value), debt instruments are the first to not perform according to expectations.

Since the economy is based on the lending of money at interest, that means this is it. In the words of Fred Sanford, "I'm coming Elizabeth, this is the big one!"

This is not a correction, recession, or depression which will be muddled through before the "normal" of 3% YoY GDP growth returns.

This is the end of growth. Plan accordingly.

One other thing I noticed in this thread: I am a fan of conspiracy theories... even more I enjoy actual conspiracies. The fact that commodities, stocks, and treasury bond yields were all down on the same day is not the result of one however.

As it stands now, the panic in the markets make zero sense... oil AND gold are down considerably last I looked as well as the markets.. and all that because of a made up problem with Italy? I smell a rat.. someone is successfully influencing the markets in a negative way... and as they say... follow the money... who ever made a bundle the last few weeks... there you have your problem.

This is what happens during fast falls when traders need to cover margin calls and raise cash by selling assets that have appreciated recently. Not a rat... finance.
 
Last edited:
"Its new iteration refers to growing trade links between emerging markets that Citigroup Inc. economists Willem Buiter and Ebrahim Rahbari predict will power an increase in worldwide trade in goods and services to $149 trillion in 2030 from $37 trillion in 2010. They estimate that China will usurp the U.S. as the world’s biggest trader within four years.

By 2015, they said, commerce between emerging markets will overtake that within advanced economies and by 2030 that between developed and developing nations. The projections may not be met should free trade fail to take hold, Buiter and Rahbari said in a June 22 report."

Brazil Hits China With Tariffs as Potholes Erode New Silk Road - Bloomberg

Ahh.. more predictions. I'll pass.
 
Wrong again, sweetie. My situatiion is not dependent on a good USA, EU, or even world economy. In fact, the economy tanking will present some great buying opprtunities. ;)

Prostitution is still illegal you know.
 
TWO FACED NoBAMA WENT TO CHICAGO FOR A FUND RAISER MINGLING WITH THE RICH CORPORATE JET OWNERS, THE SAME PEOPLE WHO HE PUT DOWN AND COMPLAINED ABOUT, WHILE ALL THESE BAD NEWS IS GOING ON. WHAT A LEADER!!!!


:slapme: Quit listening to Hannity and the rest of the salesmen and propaganda pushers!!! Do you understand how foolish your statement is?!
GOD! Im sooooo tired of these lobotomized GOPers spewing utter stupidity in the middle of serious situations!!! Quit being the problem and help this Country! Why? Because I love it. Stop the goofy, meaningless propaganda and complaining!
 
We certainly can borrow more money to do another stimulus. Treasury yields are ridiculously low because there is a huge demand for U.S. debt. Borrow more now -- cut more later. It isn't that complicated.

No more borrowing man. That ship has left..... and sunk. Like Ive said before many times.... this Country needs heros. And those heros are the wealthy. I dont want to sqeeze them like a tube of toothpaste but now its the only way to save what we have. It wont go on for 10 years, but until these fools in congress get their head on properly, the only way is to cut back and the wealthy to give back. Orrrrr..... we destroy automation and make things by hard thus reviving our manufacturing. Oh..... also kick the Illegals out OR not give them a DIME of funded help.
 
No more borrowing man. That ship has left..... and sunk. Like Ive said before many times.... this Country needs heros. And those heros are the wealthy. I dont want to sqeeze them like a tube of toothpaste but now its the only way to save what we have. It wont go on for 10 years, but until these fools in congress get their head on properly, the only way is to cut back and the wealthy to give back. Orrrrr..... we destroy automation and make things by hard thus reviving our manufacturing. Oh..... also kick the Illegals out OR not give them a DIME of funded help.

Absolutely, I agree that top rates have to move up. Hell, ALL rates have to move up. But the top rates go up first. ASAP. But the economy can't wait for the Bush cuts to expire. We need a liquidity injection quick.
 
Yes, as stated, the markets have been falling as a result of the uncertainty over the deal, and now that this horrible deal has been cut, they're falling (in part) as a result of the deal.

Note: I'm NOT saying that this is the only factor, or even the biggest factor. I agree that the biggest factor in recent days has been increased concern over the Euro zone. A close second is concern over the US economy and that has been serioudly impacted by the debt ceiling fiasco.

Couple of days ago they were claiming that the markets were falling due to "uncertainty" of the debt deal.

It's occured to me that right this second, on Fox news, they are probably saying that the market dropped because the spending cuts were too small and because there were no tax cuts. And on MSNBC, they are probably saying that the market dropped because of the spending cuts and because we didn't get tax hikes.

AND MAYBE THEY ARE BOTH CORRECT!
 
Last edited:
...we don't have the money to do another stimulus. We've got $14 trillion in debt, we're borrowing over GDP, and half of everything we spend is via borrowing. We cannot afford another $2 trillion or more in money that didn't have much affect the first time it was used.

Actually, we might be able to quite a large stimulus. Didn't you hear? Congress just authorized another $2 trillion in debt.

Besides that, the Fed can forgive the Treasury of trillions of dollars worth of debt, any time it wants, at which time it could then poof up some more money and lend it to the treasury again. Or it could just poof up some more money and purchase some vague goverment assets (like "air rights" over federal government property) from the federal government, depositing the proceeds of the sale with the Treasury.

You know that we are on the brink of total economic devistation when Republican/Libertarian Tea party types who blame everything on the Fed and who want us to go onto the gold standard are recommending such shenanagins: http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-acti...s-bill-to-cancel-public-debt-held-by-the-fed
 
Last edited:
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- U.S. stocks plunged on Tuesday as fears about a weak U.S. economy were enflamed after investors got another disappointing economic report - this time on consumer spending.

So for those who say that we have taken the correct route to righting the economy, how has creating inflation improved consumer spending?

Why did we create inflation? To make sure that Wall Street was profitable and to negate some of our massive debt. How is that working out? How is creating even more debt going to solve any of this?


Inflation was created due to high debt levels in the US. Both private and public. The debt levels are at such a level that paying them back will be difficult, if not impossible. So instead of a default, possibly leading to a deflationary spiral, of default after default. The fed made the decision to create inflation or at least prevent deflation. The inflation, provided incomes do not decrease, will tend to make paying back debt that is generally of a fixed rate easier to pay back. Deflation is something Bernanke is quite afraid of
 
perhaps we should consider making more things in the states and hiring people to make them.

or hire people to rebuild roads and bridges.

or both. and soon.

Making more things in the states would require a commitment from thousands of corporations to do something that is individually against their best interest, so I don't think that's realistic right now.

Hiring people to rebuild roads and bridges, great idea, thats EXACTLY what we should be doing, but keynesian economics is currently out of style, so it's unlikely that we will do that as long as the republicans remain in charge of anything and as long as they remain delusional.

My best hope is that in 5.5 years, we will elect a new group of non-partison leaders, or at least reasonable leaders, and undergo a WWII level of government spending - but on infrastructure this time, not bombs.
 
The FEDERAL Treasury is a damn joke. But I dont see that changing soon. Anyone that is against it..... and is DEAD serious about getting rid of it and CAN..... is dead meat. If you stand against the Federal Reserve AND have power to end it.... youre cat meat. That person would be found dead for SOME reason.

We are stuck with it. :(
 
from Iamgep


Making more things in the states would require a commitment from thousands of corporations to do something that is individually against their best interest, so I don't think that's realistic right now.

Changing what would constitute their best interest perhaps would motivate them?
 
Last edited:
TWO FACED NoBAMA WENT TO CHICAGO FOR A FUND RAISER MINGLING WITH THE RICH CORPORATE JET OWNERS, THE SAME PEOPLE WHO HE PUT DOWN AND COMPLAINED ABOUT, WHILE ALL THESE BAD NEWS IS GOING ON. WHAT A LEADER!!!!


In other words


Obama save me

Intervene in the markerts to make everything ok


Then should Obama intervene

Obama is a socialist for intervening in the markets
 
Back
Top Bottom