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Debt ceiling cost to taxpayers: $1.7 billion

Why not just come up with an original bill that extends the debt ceiling by a lot, but also cuts a lot so we don't have to go through this bull**** again a mere 4 months from now?

I dont know if you really dont know the answer or if youre just trolling but the dems wouldnt agree to that amount of cuts at all. Its a non starter in the senate if you cut as much as you increased the cap, thats what cut cap and balance was essentially about.
 
I don't deny that their actions are nothing if not politically motivated. But as I've said before, I really don't care why or who, as long as somebody starts focusing on our very dangerous spending patterns. It needed to happen years ago, and the fact that it didn't is on the hands of every legislator and president we've had in office over the last few decades, regardless of affiliation. I don't think I can come up with more than a small handful of bills that weren't promoted or passed or brought to the forefront specifically for the sake of political expediency. Sometimes those bills help the general population and sometimes they cause more harm over the long term...I think a fiscal bill geared towards cutting spending and curbing borrowing will help us long term, even if it causes short term pain (and a good, serious bill probably would). I actually think the Republicans got it wrong here and will suffer politically for holding the reigns on this. The media and the DNC have done a very good job of making the republicans look like ideologues trying to facilitate breaks and bonuses for big business while "punishing" the middle class...even though only one bill (and one that was never seriously considered) provided any sort of major incentive for business.

You should care. What is the generally accepted method of getting a country through a recession and firmly into recovery? Spending and tax cuts. Why attack Obama then for doing what Reagan and Bush have done to get through tough economic times? Politics and the fact that they have never, not ever, tried to actually fix their spending. If the right thing had been done in the past, Obama's spending would be no big deal.

We are still in rough economic times. Cutting spending now will only make this worse. The general consensus among economists except the most hardcore fringe elements is that the government cutting spending is going to cost jobs and reduce GDP growth, possibly enough to put us right back into recession. Timing does matter. You spend when times are bad, and you pay off that spending when times get good. For purely political reasons, republicans are forcing the reverse. They spent when times are good, and now expect Obama to cut when times are bad.
 
And apart from that, there wasn't much "discussion" except among Republicans themselves.

there was the biden group, the gang of 6, kent conrad's budget committee...

there were the boehner-obama talks, there was the mcconnell-reid deal...

the lift a full 50% of the democrats voted AGAINST yesterday in boehner's house might best be called the mcconell-obama plan
 
Because if we have the borrowing capacity available we'll find a way to spend until we reach the ceiling again. We can make tons of cuts today and increase the debt limit by $2.4 trillion or more...and what you'll see are new programs, plans, projects, and spending needs that will lead to us maxing out pretty quickly. That's why the plan SHOULD have included mandatory % decreases in spending / increases in revenue over time which would have led to a balanced budget, as well as a cap on how much we can borrow vs. how much we spend (i'm sorry, but almost 1/2 is way too damned high), with that ratio decreasing over time.

Admit I hadn't thought about that, good point. In any case, the new bill that's supposed to be passed today puts percentage caps on discretionary spending.
 
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Considering the FAA has been unfunded for weeks now, and the inspectors and people employed there are working for free to keep America's skies safe and all because congress cant get their act together... then this whole debt ceiling bull**** is just one of many inactions by the US Congress.. They should not be paid at all until they actually do something that helps the American people and not their own pockets and "friends" pockets... the US Congress is an insult to the very idea of democracy.
 
there was the biden group, the gang of 6, kent conrad's budget committee...

there were the boehner-obama talks, there was the mcconnell-reid deal...

If you had read carefully, you would've realized I was talking only about the House.

the lift a full 50% of the democrats voted AGAINST yesterday in boehner's house might best be called the mcconell-obama plan

McConnell-Biden plan would be more apt, probably.
 
Arbitrary? Continually increasing the debt ceiling without serious consideration to our financial policy has led to us borrowing almost half of every single dollar we spend, but you're calling it arbitrary? Simply passing a new increase (especially a $2.4 trillion increase) would have left those interested in trying to recreate some semblance of fiscal responsibility with absolutely no leverage to get anything accomplished. You know damned well if we had just voted to raise the debt ceiling and said, "Oh, we'll cover our financial disaster later" that we never would have addressed spending.
Of course the number is arbitrary, what is the number based upon? Does the number take into account the needs of our nation? We know if we exceed this arbitrary figure all of our interest rates would soar.
 
Uhh... you're angry over this $1.7 billion?

Congress could have carried on for 54 years at that rate and still wouldn't have spent as much as this increase "to get us through 2012."

Spare us the fake outrage.

It's interest payments, so it is a recurring cost, and it is from one day. Of course you knew that since you read the source...
 
The republicans have been doing everything possible, short of outright breaking the law, to subvert the democratic process, and it is as damaging to our country and its institutions as it is despicable. It is perfectly clear that their goal is not to help the country, but rather to go to any extreme to deprive President Obama of anything that could be interpretted as an accomplishment. It couldn't be more obvious. They have even voted against measures they themselves sponsored once it became clear that President Obama supported their efforts. Time and time again the President has bent over backwards to represent republican constituents, knowing that republican legislators will not. He knows perfectly well that republicans will oppose virtually everything he does, so actually incorporates what they *would* do if they were reasonable into his proposals. But it matters not.

Our system depends upon negotiation. If one side has, for example, a 55% majority, then the two sides should negotiate about the provisions in a bill and the end result, on average, should be that the majority gets about 55% of what it wants and the minority should get about 45% of what it wants. Of course that's just an average and individual measure are also influenced by specific popular and special interest opinion.

But that is not what's happening. The republicans are abusing the rules of the Senate to require a super-majority for virtually every bill -- even for minor executive appointments. There is no give and take. Either the republicans get what they want, and Obama gets nothing he wants, or they will go to any extreme to stop it. No government can function if a super majority is required to accomplish anything. Now the same tactic is being employed by the republican majority in the House. Either the minority concedes every point, or nothing can get through.

The elimination of earmarks has only made the problem worse. Sometimes horse trading is necessary to break an impasse but it can't be done without horses.

The only hope is that the American people will eventually wake up and start electing more responsible legislators. The Tea Party has been a disaster for this country.
 
You should care. What is the generally accepted method of getting a country through a recession and firmly into recovery? Spending and tax cuts. Why attack Obama then for doing what Reagan and Bush have done to get through tough economic times? Politics and the fact that they have never, not ever, tried to actually fix their spending. If the right thing had been done in the past, Obama's spending would be no big deal.

We are still in rough economic times. Cutting spending now will only make this worse. The general consensus among economists except the most hardcore fringe elements is that the government cutting spending is going to cost jobs and reduce GDP growth, possibly enough to put us right back into recession. Timing does matter. You spend when times are bad, and you pay off that spending when times get good. For purely political reasons, republicans are forcing the reverse. They spent when times are good, and now expect Obama to cut when times are bad.

The problem I have is the rate at which spending increased from 2007 to 2011. It is not entirely on Obama's shoulders as President, but as a senator he certainly had a hand in it. The legislators who voted and led the charge on spending for the past four years have shown us an unprecendented increase in debt accumulation and borrowing. I'm not a "doom and gloom" type and try to avoid hyperbole, but we simply can't afford to keep putting off the inevitable. I have no problem with gradual cuts over time for some programs. I do, however, have a problem with the idea that there aren't plenty of ways in which the government COULD cut spending RIGHT NOW, in a significant manner, without hitting the economy too badly. The waste, red tape, redundancy, fraud, foreign aid payments, UN budget, excessive war spending, etc...could all be rachetted down without causing significant job loss. A new bill allowing price negotiations with approved pharmacies in Canada, Mexico, and overseas could save a massive amount of money for medicaid/medicare, means-testing for social security, medicaid, and medicare could save a lot of money every year, work-to-play programs for welfare would eliminate jobs but would also provide marketable skills for welfare recipients and cut municipal costs (and federal aid needs) simultaneously.

I read an article over the weekend that even if we increase the debt ceiling will still risk a lowered credit rating because we're borrowing way too much of what we spend. How long can we play chicken with our credit rating overall before that, too, causes our economy to suffer? We're up against a wall here, and bad policy on both sides got us here. We're going to have to take our medicine and suffer through, regardless of which scenario plays out. There's no possible action we could take right now that will prevent us from hitting another low spot, IMO, so why don't we take the road that will lead us to the best long-term outcome?
 
look at all the democrats vote against the COMPROMISE and in favor of DEFAULT

etc

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2011/roll690.xml

how dangerously IRRESPONSIBLE of them

how dare they PLAY POLITICS with the full faith and credit, holding the entire united states economy HOSTAGE...

etc

meanwhile, our affable, laughable, gaffe-able veep yesterday called those tea party intransigents TERRORISTS

Vice President Joe Biden calls Tea Party members 'terrorists' after tense debt ceiling negotiations

good think ms giffords, bless her heart, didn't hear

civility, anyone?

You are intentionally distorting the NO vote from the Democrats? Yeah - I know - silly question. Many of those favored other alternatives instead of kissing the posterior of the tea party. Many favored giving the far right NOTHING and simply invoke the 14th Amendment. That would have been far better.
 
The problem I have is the rate at which spending increased from 2007 to 2011. It is not entirely on Obama's shoulders as President, but as a senator he certainly had a hand in it. The legislators who voted and led the charge on spending for the past four years have shown us an unprecendented increase in debt accumulation and borrowing. I'm not a "doom and gloom" type and try to avoid hyperbole, but we simply can't afford to keep putting off the inevitable. I have no problem with gradual cuts over time for some programs. I do, however, have a problem with the idea that there aren't plenty of ways in which the government COULD cut spending RIGHT NOW, in a significant manner, without hitting the economy too badly. The waste, red tape, redundancy, fraud, foreign aid payments, UN budget, excessive war spending, etc...could all be rachetted down without causing significant job loss. A new bill allowing price negotiations with approved pharmacies in Canada, Mexico, and overseas could save a massive amount of money for medicaid/medicare, means-testing for social security, medicaid, and medicare could save a lot of money every year, work-to-play programs for welfare would eliminate jobs but would also provide marketable skills for welfare recipients and cut municipal costs (and federal aid needs) simultaneously.

I read an article over the weekend that even if we increase the debt ceiling will still risk a lowered credit rating because we're borrowing way too much of what we spend. How long can we play chicken with our credit rating overall before that, too, causes our economy to suffer? We're up against a wall here, and bad policy on both sides got us here. We're going to have to take our medicine and suffer through, regardless of which scenario plays out. There's no possible action we could take right now that will prevent us from hitting another low spot, IMO, so why don't we take the road that will lead us to the best long-term outcome?

You are buying into what you are told without examining it. Reagan tripled the debt, and he is the republican deity. Obama was highly unlikely to do nearly that.
 
You are intentionally distorting the NO vote from the Democrats? Yeah - I know - silly question. Many of those favored other alternatives instead of kissing the posterior of the tea party. Many favored giving the far right NOTHING and simply invoke the 14th Amendment. That would have been far better.

Well then, there's a lovely load of hypocrisy. I hope not to see another post from you lamenting the GOP's lack of willingness to compromise, then.
 
The problem I have is the rate at which spending increased from 2007 to 2011. It is not entirely on Obama's shoulders as President, but as a senator he certainly had a hand in it. The legislators who voted and led the charge on spending for the past four years have shown us an unprecendented increase in debt accumulation and borrowing. I'm not a "doom and gloom" type and try to avoid hyperbole, but we simply can't afford to keep putting off the inevitable. I have no problem with gradual cuts over time for some programs. I do, however, have a problem with the idea that there aren't plenty of ways in which the government COULD cut spending RIGHT NOW, in a significant manner, without hitting the economy too badly. The waste, red tape, redundancy, fraud, foreign aid payments, UN budget, excessive war spending, etc...could all be rachetted down without causing significant job loss. A new bill allowing price negotiations with approved pharmacies in Canada, Mexico, and overseas could save a massive amount of money for medicaid/medicare, means-testing for social security, medicaid, and medicare could save a lot of money every year, work-to-play programs for welfare would eliminate jobs but would also provide marketable skills for welfare recipients and cut municipal costs (and federal aid needs) simultaneously.

I read an article over the weekend that even if we increase the debt ceiling will still risk a lowered credit rating because we're borrowing way too much of what we spend. How long can we play chicken with our credit rating overall before that, too, causes our economy to suffer? We're up against a wall here, and bad policy on both sides got us here. We're going to have to take our medicine and suffer through, regardless of which scenario plays out. There's no possible action we could take right now that will prevent us from hitting another low spot, IMO, so why don't we take the road that will lead us to the best long-term outcome?

You do realize that the extraordinary spending over the last four years has been in response to an extraordinary economic collapse, right? One can argue that Keynesian economics is wrong and that we shouldn't spend to stimulate the economy during recession, but it's nonsensical to look at what is clearly stimulus-related spending and then project that it is intended to continue indefinitely. When the economy recovers spending will naturally abate and revenues will naturally rise. Some work needs to be done to cut spending further and bump revenue up, but there is no reason to have a panic attack based on irrational projections.
 
You are buying into what you are told without examining it. Reagan tripled the debt, and he is the republican deity. Obama was highly unlikely to do nearly that.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. I said earlier in this thread that policies from the last several decades have caused a multitude of our problems. However, from 2007-2011 we've seen the debt increase over $5 trillion dollars. That's $5 trillion of just under $15 trillion, or 1/3 of the total debt....in 4 years. And again, I'm not blaming Obama and Obama alone. His senate position and his presidency automatically load him up with some level of culpability. As do the legislative positions of everybody in the house and senate any time from 2007 to 2011, as well as the presidency of GWB. In less than 3 years, the debt has increased almost $4 trillion dollars, which is a little more than $1.5 trillion a year. If Obama serves two terms and we do not curb spending, that means he'll have resided over $12 trillion in new debt, which more than doubles the debt level that existed at the end of GWB's presidency.

Now, the chart I found shows that Reagan resided over a total increase of $3.2 trillion dollars. Considering the changing value of the dollar, that would be about $7.23 trillion today.
 
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You do realize that the extraordinary spending over the last four years has been in response to an extraordinary economic collapse, right? One can argue that Keynesian economics is wrong and that we shouldn't spend to stimulate the economy during recession, but it's nonsensical to look at what is clearly stimulus-related spending and then project that it is intended to continue indefinitely. When the economy recovers spending will naturally abate and revenues will naturally rise. Some work needs to be done to cut spending further and bump revenue up, but there is no reason to have a panic attack based on irrational projections.

Please show me the $5+ trillion in "stimulus related spending" that has caused the increase we've seen.
 
I don't understand all this rhetoric over the debt ceiling. It has nothing to do with borrowing more money. It's about ensuring that we can pay back the money we've already spent. The debate was weather or not to refuse to pay our debts.
 
The Senate passed with 75 Aye votes.

Edit: on a side note, according to Sen. McCain the Senate will move quickly to confirm several Joint Chiefs of Staff Positions, including Gen. Martin Dempsey as CJCS and Gen. Odierno as Chief of Staff of the Army.
 
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Well then, there's a lovely load of hypocrisy. I hope not to see another post from you lamenting the GOP's lack of willingness to compromise, then.

Cooperate with what exactly? This was a manufactured crisis by the right in order to hold the nation and its economy hostage. Do you cooperate with that or squash that sort of treason like a bug?

Obama made the wrong decision. He refuses to accept that this is a WAR and there is an ENEMY which must be vanquished.
 
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There is no give and take. Either the republicans get what they want, and Obama gets nothing he wants, or they will go to any extreme to stop it.

what's weird is it's been going on pretty much non stop for two and a half years now...

and the american people so richly reward the neanderthals for all their no's

Obama concedes shellacking - Washington Times

why?

The Tea Party has been a disaster for this country.

if not for tea

Harry Reid calls for clean debt ceiling vote - Meredith Shiner - POLITICO.com
 
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