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U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

So these other countries have it figured out?

None of these countries have it 'figured out' - in one way or another, to some degree. They've suffered political or social unrest due to social or other policies. They've all had to help others - such as was the united bailout (again and again) of Greece or, like Greece, they've folded and have been bailed out numerous times and still barely are stayed from falling over the edge.

So - unless some other country in the history of the world has managed to sidestep misery, excess, poorly managed funds and conquered all the issues therein - I fail to see how looking to others will aid us in figuring it all out.

Not saying it's not interesting - but there are no 'answers' to these issues - everyone, it seems, is trying to figure it out - still.

If a single country HAD figured out the ideal solution to any one particular problem then all others will enact the same measures and gain the same results. But that's not the case - is it?

Right, I'm not suggesting that we should simply take what another country has done and uncritically try to implement it here. But we should look at other countries have done and evaluate their choices to see what, if anything, might make sense in our circumstances.
 
Well: look ot them for what? The believe that if we just *raise* our taxes then we'd be better off?

It's not how muc hwe tax - it's what we do with it, what we value as a society, what our goals are - and so many other things that matter.

For more than one reason

1) To counter the claim that we are a high tax nation

2) Because if we don't have enough money, it makes no difference HOW we spend what we don't have

3) Because looking at these facts does not prevent us from looking at other facts.
 
First off, let's make this discussion adult and cease the name calling.

As for your point, where exactly does it state that the US was never intended to be socialist? That is surprising to me since many of your programs (SS, Medicaid, unemployment insurance, etc.) are, no?

The country was never set up to be a "Government cares for your every need" situation. FDR, and later LBJ moved us very much in that direction. It's of little shock that the failure of those programs is now coming to a head causing the situation we are in.
 
The country was never set up to be a "Government cares for your every need" situation. FDR, and later LBJ moved us very much in that direction. It's of little shock that the failure of those programs is now coming to a head causing the situation we are in.

Another straw man.

Why do the rightwingers always think in extremes?
 
Another straw man.

Why do the rightwingers always think in extremes?

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Personal income taxes in the US are typically lower by average in America. However, the corporate tax rate is extremely high compared to other countries.
CorporateIncomeTaxRates.gif

Most companies don't actually pay that tax rate because of all the deductions and the loopholes. Many companies in the US actually pay no income taxes, because the tax code is that generous. Debating the tax rate is senseless. Instead of asking if the tax rate is too high or too low, we should be debating how to change the tax code and get some tax revenue from these companies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?pagewanted=all
Most Companies Pay No Federal Income Tax - CBS News
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/business/economy/03rates.html?_r=1
 
For more than one reason

1) To counter the claim that we are a high tax nation

2) Because if we don't have enough money, it makes no difference HOW we spend what we don't have

3) Because looking at these facts does not prevent us from looking at other facts.

How do we not have enough money? :shrug:

all I see is a constant appeal to increase budgets - borrow more - spend more. . .in the meantime every year we just hand away BILLIONS in corporate and foreign aid to less than deserving countries and corporate entities.

YOu think we need ot adjust our view of our tax-status from 'too high' to 'moderate' or even 'low' . . . .andI think you and others need to adjust your view of our SPENDING HABITS and what we do wit hteh money that we DO HAVE.

Everywehre I look there's excessive waste, poorly managed funds, handouts for no reason, endless war and on and on.

End all the excess and THEN tell me how we stand.

Last year I did a report in the subject of agency waste - there are more than 5 government agencies that give money to foreign countries ON TOP of what our Congress directly stipends out each year. . . Holy crap - with that kind of excess kicking around it's amazing we have fallen into this pit already.

Oh WAIT - we HAVE. HAH! Several times.
 
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I think you need to take another look at the first graph in the OP. It includes ALL taxes

Once again, the rightwing must obsess over income taxes to the exclusion of all other taxes in order to justify the massive redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy.

How many threads here are started by 'left wing' tpyes regarding the wealthy and taxes and social/wealth redistribution? "Right Wing" obsesses???Seriously? May I refer you to...well...the OP...
 
And the socialist ignore the fact that Americans get hit by far more sources of taxes than Europe. We have federal income tax and FICA which are two biggies. We have other forms of income tax such as capital gains. But then we have federal taxes on telephone calls, gasoline, tobacco, alcohol, and so forth and so on.

Then we hav3e state taxes. They tax most of the same things that the feds tax and then some, such as a sales tax.

Then we have county taxes. That's the property tax, another sales tax, automobile taxes, and whatever else they feel like taxing.
then we have city taxes. Certainly a sales tax, another property tax, seat tax in theaters, hotel tax, and so more.
Then we had special improvement districts. Where I lived, that meant another property tax for some but not others to go to the hospital. And, a special improvement district for street lights assessed to each property owners.

And so it goes. Many of the socialists arguing the U.S. has low taxes are lying and are in the favored groups who pay low taxes. To me, it's shocking that almost half of the country pays zero in Income Tax. Those existing totally on the dole have no taxes because they have no earned income.

And don't overlook the flat-out lying part. In the U.S. the politicians have found lots, maybe over a hundred, euphemisms for lying but it's still lying. My favorite is the current, "I didn't explain this well enough," when what is meant, "I lied and got caught."

I don't pay telephone, tobacco, or alcohol tax. And while we have a federal tax rate, nearly 50 percent of households pay NO federal income tax rate.

Nearly half of US households escape fed income tax - Yahoo! Finance

Many of those people also pay no state taxes, depending on the state... but recently it seems like many governors are completely removing tax rates for companies, and ending credits for individuals, busting public unions- decreasing benefits and pay, and expecting individuals to pick up the tab.

As for capital gains, you probably wouldn't pay that tax unless you own stock and if you own stock... the tax rate is one of the lowest tax rates there are... lol
 
How do we not have enough money? :shrug:

Because our tax rates are too low :facepalm:

all I see is a constant appeal to increase budgets - borrow more - spend more. . .in the meantime every year we just hand away BILLIONS in corporate and foreign aid to less than deserving countries and corporate entities.

YOu think we need ot adjust our view of our tax-status from 'too high' to 'moderate' or even 'low' . . . .andI think you and others need to adjust your view of our SPENDING HABITS and what we do wit hteh money that we DO HAVE.

Everywehre I look there's excessive waste, poorly managed funds, handouts for no reason, endless war and on and on.

End all the excess and THEN tell me how we stand.

Last year I did a report in the subject of agency waste - there are more than 5 government agencies that give money to foreign countries ON TOP of what our Congress directly stipends out each year. . . Holy crap - with that kind of excess kicking around it's amazing we have fallen into this pit already.

Oh WAIT - we HAVE. HAH! Several times.

Talking about our rate of taxation and comparing it to other nations does not prevent anyone from discussing the issues you mentioned. If you want to talk about waste or handouts, or whatever, please start a thread instead of hijacking this one
 
How many threads here are started by 'left wing' tpyes regarding the wealthy and taxes and social/wealth redistribution? "Right Wing" obsesses???Seriously? May I refer you to...well...the OP...

There's a huge difference between talking about taxes in general, and focusin on the income tax to the exclusion of all other taxes. This obsession demonstrates its' existence by rearing its head in EVERY thread about taxes, even when income taxes are not the focus of the thread.
 
..... and Europeans have gas taxes, council taxes, property taxes, car taxes, road taxes, trash collection fees err taxes, energy taxes, green taxes, VAT, oh.. and capital gains tax as well plus many more.... There aint much difference, other than the rates of the taxes we are talking about and the amount of deductions you can get in the US.



What is more shocking is that people like you actually believe that drivel and use it as a political ploy to LOWER taxes. Hey I understand your swiss cheese holed tax system needs a major overhaul so the burden gets to be more fair on all fronts, but dont blame the lowest income American's for the excess spending of the middle class and up over the last 20+ years.

I think the right wing knows we probably need to raise taxes, which is why most of them do support a tax increase on people but not corporations. They support "the fair tax," which is a tax increase on the middle class, a tax decrease on the wealthy, and a 100 percent tax break on corporations.
 
The U.S. isn't in a state of denail over taxes, its in a state of denial over its entitlement programs. They makeup more than half of our current spending and eat up almost every bit of revenue we currently produce (2.009 trillion compared to 2.130 trillion brought in). Our tax revenues would need to increase almost 70% just to sustain our current spending levels.
 
The U.S. isn't in a state of denail over taxes, its in a state of denial over its entitlement programs. They makeup more than half of our current spending and eat up almost every bit of revenue we currently produce (2.009 trillion compared to 2.130 trillion brought in). Our tax revenues would need to increase almost 70% just to sustain our current spending levels.

Not true

us-taxes-2009.png


us-spending-2001-2011.png
 
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There's a huge difference between talking about taxes in general, and focusin on the income tax to the exclusion of all other taxes. This obsession demonstrates its' existence by rearing its head in EVERY thread about taxes, even when income taxes are not the focus of the thread.

Horse****...if it wasnt for democrats pandering to their base and liberals losing their minds over loss of their handout programs, this **** would come up once...twice a blue moon. This is typical...you and others start threads on this bemoaning how unfair life is that the wealthy people dont give you enough of their money and then piss and moan about how the right obsesses about it.
 
I'm not Chilean, French, Swedish, Germanic, English - I'm none of these. I've never been to their countries, lived there - even engaged in conversation from someone who is from any of these places.

So why should their approach to keeping a country affect my views on how our country should function?

These types of discussions reveal very interesting facts - but they don't equate to my life, my expenses, our society and how we live.

The point of this thread is to compare tax rates, nobody is arguing the government needs to function the same way as those countries or spend money the same way. I think the point is USA pays low taxes, but many of those other countries aren't dealing with the same problems like losing jobs to China, and yet we are told our tax rates are too high and need to be lowered to save our jobs. It doesn't sound right.
 
Most companies don't actually pay that tax rate because of all the deductions and the loopholes. Many companies in the US actually pay no income taxes, because the tax code is that generous.

That's absurd. The vast majority of the reasons any corporation might pay no U.S. federal corporate income tax are:

1. They had losses which meet or exceed their earnings.
2. They were engaged in foreign business and paid as much or more than the federal rate, in the country they are doing business, as per U.S. treaty agreements.

It makes no sense to say you want to spend a lot of time finding way to tax people who lost money, or who already paid in the nation they are doing business.
 
The point of this thread is to compare tax rates, nobody is arguing the government needs to function the same way as those countries or spend money the same way. I think the point is USA pays low taxes, but many of those other countries aren't dealing with the same problems like losing jobs to China, and yet we are told our tax rates are too high and need to be lowered to save our jobs. It doesn't sound right.

But you CANT compare tax rates. Its not even logical. We dont have the same expenditures, the same costs, and certainly not the same ideals. What does that tax rate look like when you add in State taxes? local? property?
 
Well: look ot them for what? The believe that if we just *raise* our taxes then we'd be better off?

It's not how muc hwe tax - it's what we do with it, what we value as a society, what our goals are - and so many other things that matter.

LOL... obviously low taxes or high taxes isn't simply the solution to the problems you are complaining about, and that was made clear several pages ago. On the other hand, I think it's just good to know where your country stands in certain categories, how it preforms in comparison to the rest of the world, and try to constantly improve. I tend to embrace knowledge especially about the world and my nation's progress and performance in the world, I guess you don't... :shrug:
 
The country was never set up to be a "Government cares for your every need" situation. FDR, and later LBJ moved us very much in that direction. It's of little shock that the failure of those programs is now coming to a head causing the situation we are in.

I don't need the government to care for my every need, but I expect my government to place me in high regard and of importance. I expect them to care about me, and they should, because they are supposed to represent me. Before we'd vote people out who yelled in town hall meetings at the citizens, "the government doesn't care about you," and now we see people like you clapping at that ****, and you think that makes you freer or something. Having your government tell you they don't give a **** about you is not acceptable.
 
Sangha,

Why did you post a graph that exlcludes entitelements spending, when Zyph was specifically contrasting that to defense spending? Are you being intentionally dishonest?

Wiki is more honest, hopefully people would go wiki it for themselves.

And amusingly your graph of military spending looks wonderful compared to the *other* problems we have with our budget!

United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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