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U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

American said:
Maybe because they have to pay for college. Med school is about $50K/yr, maybe more. So now tell me what this has to do with the topic.
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Herring, red.
 
American said:
Maybe because they have to pay for college. Med school is about $50K/yr, maybe more. So now tell me what this has to do with the topic.
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It's at the heart of this topic. You state that cutting Medicare reimbursements will result in fewer doctors willing to see Medicare patients. Why would they do that? Because they can make more money seeing patients with private insurance. So is the problem that Medicare is paying too little, or is it that private insurers are paying too much? I would argue that it's the latter.
 
AdamT said:
The truth is that doctors are overpaid in this country relative to what doctors make everywhere else. That is one of the realities we need to face if we're ever going to get medical costs under control.
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Doctors are underpaid compared to other occupations with similar education.
 
AdamT said:
Why do our doctors make so much money relative to doctors elsewhere? They make so much because private insurers pay them that much.
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I hope you aren't one of those people who say that insurance companies are greedy and refuse to pay.
 
mpg said:
Will that cut the cost of health care?
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Never mind the fact that is impossible to make school, medical or otherwise, free.
 
AdamT said:
It's at the heart of this topic. You state that cutting Medicare reimbursements will result in fewer doctors willing to see Medicare patients. Why would they do that? Because they can make more money seeing patients with private insurance. So is the problem that Medicare is paying too little, or is it that private insurers are paying too much? I would argue that it's the latter.
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IIRC, Medicare payments to doctors were only high enough for the doctors to break even, so it was charity work before the cuts. With the cuts, doctors have to pay to treat Medicare patients.
 
mpg said:
I hope you aren't one of those people who say that insurance companies are greedy and refuse to pay.
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We hoped that you wouldn't express your desire to ignore facts, but we don't always get what we want.
 
mpg said:
I hope you aren't one of those people who say that insurance companies are greedy and refuse to pay.
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Unfortunately that is also the case. We really have the worst of all possible worlds. Generally the insured has little or no bargaining power vis-a-vis the insurance company (because you take whatever your employer is offering -- if you're lucky), but the insurance company doesn't have all that much bargaining power relative to providers, because the provider can just go to another network. As a result, the insurance company puts the screws to its insured, and the doctors/hospitals put the screws to the insurance company. But that's okay, because the insurance company can just jack up its rates! In the end it's the health care consumer who pays through the nose.
 
mpg said:
IIRC, Medicare payments to doctors were only high enough for the doctors to break even, so it was charity work before the cuts. With the cuts, doctors have to pay to treat Medicare patients.
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Because they have to pay off their loans. Make med school free...problem solved

But I have to admit, I am amused to see a rightwinger argue for more govt spending on Medicare
 
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sangha said:
We hoped that you wouldn't express your desire to ignore facts, but we don't always get what we want.
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Who are you speaking for other than yourself?
 
sangha said:
So let's make medical school free in return for reduced pay. Problem solved!!
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Wow, why hasn't that been thought of before. No doubt we could apply that to a lot more, maybe everything.
 
mpg said:
how so????
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You're arguing that doctors have to charge so much because medical school is so expensive (btw, it's a lot more than $50k/yr!). QED, if doctors don't have to pay for medical school then they can charge less. There is, of course, a precedent for this: the VA system.
 
AdamT said:
Unfortunately that is also the case. We really have the worst of all possible worlds. Generally the insured has little or no bargaining power vis-a-vis the insurance company (because you take whatever your employer is offering -- if you're lucky), but the insurance company doesn't have all that much bargaining power relative to providers, because the provider can just go to another network. As a result, the insurance company puts the screws to its insured, and the doctors/hospitals put the screws to the insurance company. But that's okay, because the insurance company can just jack up its rates! In the end it's the health care consumer who pays through the nose.
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They can't be paying too much and not enough at the same time.
 
sangha said:
By reducing the costs that doctors incur
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but isn't that cost merely passed along to the taxpayer, and aren't you trying to reduce the cost of health care?
 
mpg said:
They can't be paying too much and not enough at the same time.
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Oh they can, and they DO! They try to stiff the insured, but if they can't, then they overpay the providers.

Tort reform is a case in point. The argument goes that lawsuits drive up the cost of medical care because they force doctors to pay high insurance rates and over-treat to avoid litigation. Makes sense, right? So limiting malpractice liability should lower medical costs. Problem is, better than half the states have enacted tort reform and it doesn't seem to have lowered medical costs at all! Why not. Well, it looks like what's happening is that malpractice insurance premiums are indeed dropping ... but that savings isn't being passed on to health care consumers! Can you believe it? The doctors are making more money and the insurance companies are making more money, but you and I are still holding the bag.
 
sangha said:
That's now. But soon, a larger portion of the population will be over 65. That's why the republicans are pushing their health care plan (ie "Die Quickly!")
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Ahh, so you believe the senior population is going to increase by 160 million in the next few years, while the number under 65 drops the same amount..... how's life in lala land ??

I see you are a fan of the EX one-term congressman Alan Grayson............why am I not surprised.
 
American said:
Wow, why hasn't that been thought of before. No doubt we could apply that to a lot more, maybe everything.
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Not everything (that's just one of the rights many straw men) but we should definitely apply that to a lot more. We can start with a single payer, universal health care system which costs less than the system we have now
 
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