Breaking: Agreement has been reached on raising the debt limit....

Conservative · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

AdamT said:
Translation: I have no substantive response.

Why do you buy what any politicians tells you? Learned a long time ago to "Trust but verify" and I haven't seen you verify anything. Name for me any country in the world where the single payer system is working? What were those 4 trillion in spending cuts that Obama said he approved of? Larger Stimulus for what? How did he use the current stimulus? Raising taxes on the rich? Why? What is the rich fair share that I keep hearing about and why isn't paying zero in FIT be of concern to you?

j-mac · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Sheik Yerbuti said:
I find it amusing that Conservative uses the thread topic like a condom to protect himself from losing an argument.

You don't find that funny?

He laid out the facts for you in that post and you laugh at it, yet I am sure if pressed you'd see yourself as a champion of the less privileged no? How can you laugh when your choice for President is making things in this country worse for them? Is it that you really just don't give a crap about their struggle and see them as little more than a useful tool?

I think that is how many so called "progressive" liberals really see the poor.

Look, it is clear that Obama has made by every measure our economy, and the standing of this country worse off, and has broken everything he spewed in the campaign. In fact, instead of having transparent government working for the people, we get crisis after crisis, and back room closed door deals that seem to do more damage, and all the while all liberals can do is continue to blame Bush, or laugh...This is sad.

j-mac

PzKfW IVe · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Of course he led. The two sides reached an agreement, didn't they? Conservatives can't have it both ways. While the two sides are a chasm apart, Conservatives attack Obama saying a real leader would have been able to bring the two sides together. Well, Obama did that and they reached an agreement. Y'all can't attack his leadership abilities for accomplishing what you were attacking his leadership abilities for.

The only 'leadership' The Obama displayed here was to get His party to cave.

j-mac · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Of course he led. The two sides reached an agreement, didn't they? Conservatives can't have it both ways. While the two sides are a chasm apart, Conservatives attack Obama saying a real leader would have been able to bring the two sides together. Well, Obama did that and they reached an agreement. Y'all can't attack his leadership abilities for accomplishing what you were attacking his leadership abilities for.

:naughty:

I give more credit to Harry Reid than I do Obama....Barry was late to the game, and to this date hasn't put forth his own plan...How is that leadership...He is a rank amature trying to bluff his way through, and it is catching up with him...If it weren't for Reid, McConnell, Bohenner bringing this along we'd still be stuck in Obama's name calling class warfare speech tour.

j-mac

AdamT · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Conservative said:
Why do you buy what any politicians tells you? Learned a long time ago to "Trust but verify" and I haven't seen you verify anything. Name for me any country in the world where the single payer system is working? What were those 4 trillion in spending cuts that Obama said he approved of? Larger Stimulus for what? How did he use the current stimulus? Raising taxes on the rich? Why? What is the rich fair share that I keep hearing about and why isn't paying zero in FIT be of concern to you?

I'm pretty sure I've already named about 10 countries with nationalized health care that deliver an equivalent level of care at about half the cost of our system.

I didn't say that Obama proposed $4 trillion spending cuts. I said he proposed $4 trillion in deficit reduction. Contrary to what republicans seem to believe, these are not syonymous. I can't tell you the details of what Obama and Boehner discussed in private, but I did not hear Boehner disclaiming the numbers. What he objected to was the revenue component.

j-mac · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

PzKfW IVe said:
The only 'leadership' The Obama displayed here was to get His party to cave.

And I think that was more Reid than Obama....Barry is cowering in a corner somewhere being told what to say, do, and think....

j-mac

j-mac · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

AdamT said:
I'm pretty sure I've already named about 10 countries with nationalized health care that deliver an equivalent level of care at about half the cost of our system.

I didn't say that Obama proposed $4 trillion spending cuts. I said he proposed $4 trillion in deficit reduction. Contrary to what republicans seem to believe, these are not syonymous. I can't tell you the details of what Obama and Boehner discussed in private, but I did not hear Boehner disclaiming the numbers. What he objected to was the revenue component.

Can you show me a country with socialized health care that is not only on par with America, but puts forth the innovation in pharma, and med procedures that this country does?

j-mac

AdamT · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

j-mac said:
And I think that was more Reid than Obama....Barry is cowering in a corner somewhere being told what to say, do, and think....

j-mac

Yeah, it's really Dick Cheney running the show. :lol:

Conservative · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

AdamT;1059703923]I'm pretty sure I've already named about 10 countries with nationalized health care that deliver an equivalent level of care at about half the cost of our system.

And you know this how? Have you been paying attention to what is going on in Europe? The countries there are imploding and costs are out of control. Britain and France are trying to dismantle the single payer system as costs aren't contained and continue to rise. You continue to buy what you are told

I didn't say that Obama proposed $4 trillion spending cuts. I said he proposed $4 trillion in deficit reduction. Contrary to what republicans seem to believe, these are not syonymous. I can't tell you the details of what Obama and Boehner discussed in private, but I did not hear Boehner disclaiming the numbers. What he objected to was the revenue component.

There never has been an Obama plan, he is leaderless. His so called 4 trillion in spending cuts were smoke and mirrors with no specific plan. Raising the taxes on the rich do nothing to lower the deficit. If you are concerned about revenue go get some from the 47% of the income earners that aren't paying anything in FIT or put 24 plus million unemployed or under employed people back to work. What do you think they are paying in FIT?

AdamT · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

j-mac said:
Can you show me a country with socialized health care that is not only on par with America, but puts forth the innovation in pharma, and med procedures that this country does?

j-mac

There's no question America takes the leading role in innovation, although most of that is being done at the university level -- not by big pharma. But if you want to ride the big pharma pony, many of them are European companies.

AdamT · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Conservative said:
And you know this how? Have you been paying attention to what is going on in Europe? The countries there are imploding and costs are out of control. Britain and France are trying to dismantle the single payer system as costs aren't contained and continue to rise. You continue to buy what you are told

There never has been an Obama plan, he is leaderless. His so called 4 trillion in spending cuts were smoke and mirrors with no specific plan. Raising the taxes on the rich do nothing to lower the deficit. If you are concerned about revenue go get some from the 47% of the income earners that aren't paying anything in FIT or put 24 plus million unemployed or under employed people back to work. What do you think they are paying in FIT?

You are just making sh*t up again, I'm afraid. Many European countries are in as good or better shape than we are, including France and Germany. None of them are trying to dismantle their national health care systems. None of them would dream of going to the lunatic system that we have, nor has anyone even suggested that they should. The funny thing is that when people in Europe complain about health care, the response is often, "well at least we don't have that crazy American health care system!" :lol:

Sheik Yerbuti · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

j-mac said:
He laid out the facts for you in that post and you laugh at it...

He posts that same exact post 50 times a day. I've responded to it plenty of times. You'll just have to excuse me if I dont' respond to it 50 times a day.

Be that as it may, he said he votes for Republican presidents because he supports their economic policies, which naturally led me to ask him exactly which economic policy of GHW Bush's did he support to vote for him in 1992.

Oops!

No answer there for a Conservative, now is there?

So what does he do? He complains that I'm off-topic, fulfilling my point that he uses the thread topic as a shield to protect himself. When I highlight that -- he returns to pasting the same stuff he posts 50 times a day.

j-mac said:
yet I am sure if pressed you'd see yourself as a champion of the less privileged no? How can you laugh when your choice for President is making things in this country worse for them?

Because unlike you, I don't see things as worse.

Last month, I saw we lost 333,000 jobs. That's horrendous. That's the worst month we've had in more than a year ... but's it's still better than when Obama took over and we lost 732,000 jobs in a month.

Last quarter, I saw GDP grow at a mere 1.3%. That's very slow ... but it's still better than the 8.9% GDP fell in the final quarter before Obama took over.

The debt is growing at an alarming rate ... but it's not growing worse now than it was when Obama took over.

That's not to say we have recovered, we haven't ... but I don't see things worse now than they were in January, 2009. Not even close.

Conservative · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

AdamT said:
You are just making sh*t up again, I'm afraid. Many European countries are in as good or better shape than we are, including France and Germany. None of them are trying to dismantle their national health care systems. None of them would dream of going to the lunatic system that we have, nor has anyone even suggested that they should. The funny thing is that when people in Europe complain about health care, the response is often, "well at least we don't have that crazy American health care system!" :lol:

Do you have a TV? Greece, Spain, Ireland, Britain, France? You need to stop buying what you are told and do your own research.

AdamT · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

WOE, hold on a minute there! Let's get this straight. Employment was UP a net of 18,000 jobs in June -- not down 333,000. But it was down a net of 732,000 jobs when Obama took over.

Conservative · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Sheik Yerbuti said:
He posts that same exact post 50 times a day. I've responded to it plenty of times. You'll just have to excuse me if I dont' respond to it 50 times a day.

Be that as it may, he said he votes for Republican presidents because he supports their economic policies, which naturally led me to ask him exactly which economic policy of GHW Bush's did he support to vote for him in 1992.

Oops!

No answer there for a Conservative, now is there?

So what does he do? He complains that I'm off-topic, fulfilling my point that he uses the thread topic as a shield to protect himself. When I highlight that -- he returns to pasting the same stuff he posts 50 times a day.

Because unlike you, I don't see things as worse.

Last month, I saw we lost 333,000 jobs. That's horrendous. That's the worst month we've had in more than a year ... but's it's still better than when Obama took over and we lost 732,000 jobs in a month.

Last quarter, I saw GDP grow at a mere 1.3%. That's very slow ... but it's still better than the 8.9% GDP fell in the final quarter before Obama took over.

The debt is growing at an alarming rate ... but it's not growing worse now than it was when Obama took over.

That's not to say we have recovered, we haven't ... but I don't see things worse now than they were in January, 2009. Not even close.

Is this what you hired Obama to generate? .4% GDP growth, 1.3% GDP growth the first two qtrs of 2011. Is that better or worse than 2010? Can you explain how a recession ended in june 2009 and these are the best the OBama economy can generate?

Did you hire Obama to create 24 plus million unemployed or under employed Americans and in the last two years add 3 trillion to the debt? you want to compare to the last year of Bush yet ignore that the recession ended in June 2009 and we are two years later. Never have we had this kind of economic growth and unemployment two years after the end of a recession. This is who you voted for and trying to defend now. 40% of the American people now agree with you.

Conservative · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

AdamT said:
WOE, hold on a minute there! Let's get this straight. Employment was UP a net of 18,000 jobs in June -- not down 333,000. But it was down a net of 732,000 jobs when Obama took over.

Really, Employment was up in June? These are the employment numbers and employment is down from 139.8 to 139.3 or 500k loss of jobs. Once again the liberal media and Obama have lied to you

2011 139323 139573 139864 139674 139779 139334

Sheik Yerbuti · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

AdamT said:
WOE, hold on a minute there! Let's get this straight. Employment was UP a net of 18,000 jobs in June -- not down 333,000. But it was down a net of 732,000 jobs when Obama took over.

It all depends on which source you use from the BLS.

Payroll data by the BLS shows a gain of 18,000

Household survey data shows unemployment (plus discouraged workers) growing by 333,000

AdamT · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Conservative said:
Do you have a TV? Greece, Spain, Ireland, Britain, France? You need to stop buying what you are told and do your own research.

You might want to think of expanding your universe beyong Fox News -- just sayin'.

Yes, Greece and Ireland are in bad shape but there are a lot of countries in Europe and many of them are in better shape than we are (including the UK, as a matter of fact). In fact, if you look at debt as a percentage of GDP, there are only a few Euro countries that are worse off than we are (Greece, Italy, Belgium, Iceland, Ireland). Many are better off than we are (Germany, France, UK, Austria, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, etc.).

Conservative · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

AdamT said:
You might want to think of expanding your universe beyong Fox News -- just sayin'.

Yes, Greece and Ireland are in bad shape but there are a lot of countries in Europe and many of them are in better shape than we are (including the UK, as a matter of fact). In fact, if you look at debt as a percentage of GDP, there are only a few Euro countries that are worse off than we are (Greece, Italy, Belgium, Iceland, Ireland). Many are better off than we are (Germany, France, UK, Austria, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, etc.).

Britain is trying to privatize their medical system. France is doing the same thing. Have you been to any of those countries? You buy what you are told and has been proven with actual numbers you are being made a fool of by the leftwing media and liberal elite

Sheik Yerbuti · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Conservative said:
Did you hire Obama to create 24 plus million unemployed or under employed Americans

Can you give me a date and time when you will stop lying?

Can you show how Obama put 24 million people under employed since he became president? Because my understanding, using your math, is that 22 million of them were already underemployed when Obama became president.

And of course that number grew since he was handed 22 million underemployed folks along with a monster recession and a $1.2 trillion budget deficit and a negative 8.9% GDP.

Sheik Yerbuti · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Conservative said:
Really, Employment was up in June? These are the employment numbers and employment is down from 139.8 to 139.3 or 500k loss of jobs. Once again the liberal media and Obama have lied to you

Holy ****! You must think Fox news is Liberal! :lamo

Hopes Dashed: Only 18,000 Jobs Created

How about the Wall Street Journal -- they're Liberal too?

The government's broadest snapshot of employment showed the nation added just 18,000 jobs in June.

:doh

Conservative · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Can you give me a date and time when you will stop lying?

Can you show how Obama put 24 million people under employed since he became president? Because my understanding, using your math, is that 22 million of them were already underemployed when Obama became president.

And of course that number grew since he was handed 22 million underemployed folks along with a monster recession and a $1.2 trillion budget deficit and a negative 8.9% GDP.

Would be happy to when you show me how Bush lost 8 million jobs and created the recession?

The recession ended 4 months after Obama took office hardly time for him to make a difference. The 24 million unemployed and under Employed Americans, .4% and 1.3% GDP growth in the first two qtrs of 2011 are two years later. Just a simple fact that you want to ignore. GW Bush didn't have 24 million unemployed or under employed plus .4% and 1.3% GDP growth two years after the end of the 2001 recession.

Conservative · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Holy ****! You must think Fox news is Liberal! :lamo

Hopes Dashed: Only 18,000 Jobs Created

How about the Wall Street Journal -- they're Liberal too?

The government's broadest snapshot of employment showed the nation added just 18,000 jobs in June.

:doh

I posted the BLS data which of course you ignored. those are the official numbers and it seems that you have 40% of the people supporting you and your position. Just think how good the numbers will look if you can get a few more million to drop out of the labor force because they cannot find a job

The Prof · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

AdamT said:
Republicans opposed his effort and the stimulus had to be scaled back to get even moderate (but necessary) support.

LOL!

he had sixty senators plus snowe and collins and 78 downstairs

Obama wanted a public option in the health care reform bill, which would have reduced the deficit, but that was a line in the sand for republicans, who opposed it.

you don't know what you're talking about

Update: List of Dem Senators Who Don't Support the Public Option | CarlBentham's Blog

Obama wanted to the top-tier Bush tax cuts to expire

44 senate democrats in lame duck voted AGAINST shared sacrifice

Tax-cut plan clears Senate easily - Carrie Budoff Brown and Jake Sherman - POLITICO.com

AdamT · Aug 1, 2011

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Conservative said:
Britain is trying to privatize their medical system. France is doing the same thing. Have you been to any of those countries? You buy what you are told and has been proven with actual numbers you are being made a fool of by the leftwing media and liberal elite

No, Britain is not trying to privatize it's health care system. They are talking about possibly opening it up to *some* livel of private competition, but the plans have already been scaled back due to heavy opposition from the public and the medical community. Get your facts straight. NHS services to be opened up to competition | Society | The Guardian