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Breaking: Agreement has been reached on raising the debt limit....

Re: Obama: We have a deal

lol.......we need to raise taxes, td. no way around it. right now, we are asking EVERYBODY but the wealthy to make sacrifices. it's bull****. i am looking for a third party, and it certainly WON'T be the juvenile tea party.

Why do we need to raise taxes and how does raising taxes put 24 million unemployed and under employed Americans back to full time work? Here we go again, asking the wealthy to make sacrifices? What sacrifice are the 47% income earners that aren't paying any FIT making?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

These are the same numbers that conservatives always trot out to try and prove that Clinton didn't run a surplus. They want to subtract intergovernmental holdings to reach that result. What they DON'T want to do, however, is subtract intergovernmental holdings for any other purpose. In other words, they will carve out IH when talking about Clinton, but turn right around and say that Bush's deficits weren't THAT bad -- and NOT carve out IH to make them look less horrendous. :lol::lol::lol:

So let me see if I have this correct, you contribute to SS and have no problem with the govt. taking that money and putting it on budget and spending it leaving you with an IOU? Total debt equals public debt plus intergovt. holdings and that is what we pay debt service on. That amounts right now due to low interest rates at 200 billion a year of tax dollars to fund it. Is that what you call liberal logic?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

it should start with pay and benefit reductions for congress.

Now that I can agree with. I prefer a part time legislature like we have in TX. Send these bureaucrats back to their states to face the people that they are misrepresenting.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Why do we need to raise taxes and how does raising taxes put 24 million unemployed and under employed Americans back to full time work? Here we go again, asking the wealthy to make sacrifices? What sacrifice are the 47% income earners that aren't paying any FIT making?

Well, many of them are paying the price for bank deregulation -- being that they're unemployed because of the financial meltdown. Others are paying the price in the form of wage stagnation, i.e., because blue collar pay has been stagnant for a decade while whitle collar pay has been skyrocketing.

See, it's a bit inconsistent to constantly promote policies that hammer the middle class and then whine because the middle class isn't paying more in taxes.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

So far your "argument" amounts to calling your opposition names, then calling them stupid.

It might feel good when you're doing it, but as for real debate it seriously couldn't be more lacking.
Befuddled_Stoner called the following 4 Tea Baggers stupid. I didn’t describe them, just described their status and position. But since you are complaining about qualifying their behavior improperly; then, please describe their behavior. Thanks.
Here is my post again.
Sorry, I have to post this again. What you are also missing is an understanding of Tea Party supporters. I met with Tea Party individuals at a demonstration. Two older folks there were carrying signs that read “NO GOV HEALTH CARE”, but to me they looked old enough to be on Medicare. They were on Medicare. They explained to me that they didn’t want the government taking it over and messing with it.
Also, a Tea Party family was at the demonstration, father, mother and one 10 year old son; two more at home. My wife and I chatted with them. The father is a vet that started serving just after the Viet War ended. He was disposing of Agent Orange; which in our opinion may have been the source of his health problems. He had a heart attack about 6 months earlier. Went to the hospital where his wife works as a low level employee. What she said she did only pays low wages. They can’t afford the extra for family health insurance, she was the only one insured since that can’t be refused for more pay. His bill was about $90,000. Her wages were garnished by the hospital; it’s only a small garnishment so it will take a very long time to pay it off. Again, they were there with a Don’t Tread On Me flag and more.
Are these the Tea Party members you are thinking of? Or are there two kinds of Tea Partiers? What kinds are there?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

So let me see if I have this correct, you contribute to SS and have no problem with the govt. taking that money and putting it on budget and spending it leaving you with an IOU? Total debt equals public debt plus intergovt. holdings and that is what we pay debt service on. That amounts right now due to low interest rates at 200 billion a year of tax dollars to fund it. Is that what you call liberal logic?

It has nothing to do with whether or not I approve of the accounting. It has everything to do with being CONSISTENT in the method you use to come up with these numbers. In other words, if you don't want to include intergovernmental holdings when you talk about Clinton, that's fine with me. But then you also have to exclude them when you talk about Reagan, and Bush I, and Bush II. Otherwise you're just changing the rules to reach the result you want.
 
You are trying to go so deep into this issue to find ANYTHING you can to convince yourself democrats are wrong, and you, along with conservatives are right. I dont have that problem. I can look at facts and draw conclusions based on whats real, and whats not. I am loyal to my party because I believe government. I believe government growth is the KEY to economic growth. Actually, I dont think we are spending enough money right now in washington. Even economists say you dont CUT government down to lower our debt, you spend MORE and increase government size. This is something the GOP is un-willing to accept. Hard REAL information from a credible source, kind of like Global Warming. The GOP might be able to trick some Americans into buying their B.S., but I know the truth. The GOP's goal is to destroy the lower and middle class and make Americans rely on large corporations to survive, and THAT my friend, is called DICTATORSHIP.
One must give creit where it is due -- it is rare to see someone who is openly proud of his partisan bigotry.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Well, many of them are paying the price for bank deregulation -- being that they're unemployed because of the financial meltdown. Others are paying the price in the form of wage stagnation, i.e., because blue collar pay has been stagnant for a decade while whitle collar pay has been skyrocketing.

See, it's a bit inconsistent to constantly promote policies that hammer the middle class and then whine because the middle class isn't paying more in taxes.

Isn't it amazing that Obama inherited the "worst recession since the Great Depression" and that recession ended five months after he took office? today we have .4% and 1.3% GDP growth and a record that will be on the ballot in 2012, a record that you will ignore.

Obama record, 15.1 million officially unemployed TODAY 2 1/2 years later, 16.2% total unemployment or underemployment over 24 million TODAY, 4 trillion added to the debt as of the end of fiscal year 2011, and a rising misery index(7.83 to 12.67).

Not whining about what the middle class pays in taxes because quite frankly I understand that we have a spending problem NOT a revenue problem. Facts always confuse a liberal
 
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Lesse...
1: Spendng cuts
2: More spending cuts on the way
3: No tax hikes

USA/GOP/TEA/conservatives: Win
Dems/liberals: Lose

:clap:
 
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Re: Obama: We have a deal

It has nothing to do with whether or not I approve of the accounting. It has everything to do with being CONSISTENT in the method you use to come up with these numbers. In other words, if you don't want to include intergovernmental holdings when you talk about Clinton, that's fine with me. But then you also have to exclude them when you talk about Reagan, and Bush I, and Bush II. Otherwise you're just changing the rules to reach the result you want.

I have always included intergovt. holdings in debt discussions because that is where they belong. Obama has added 4 trillion to the debt in less than 3 years and what do we have to show for it, 24+ million Americans unemployed or under employed, .4% and 1.3% 2012 GDP growth and we are two years after the end of a recession.

Total debt is all that matters for that is what we pay debt service on
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Isn't it amazing that Obama inherited the "worst recession since the Great Depression" and that recession ended five months have he took office? today we have .4% and 1.3% GDP growth and a record that will be on the ballot in 2012, a record that you will ignore.



Not whining about what the middle class pays in taxes because quite frankly I understand that we have a spending problem NOT a revenue problem. Facts always confuse a liberal

It's not amazing that the recession ended about half a year into Obama's presidency. He made the right calls to help reverse the slide. To his credit, Bush also made the right call in signing TARP.

The fact is that we have a spending problem and a revenue problem. Time and time again the American people -- liberals AND conservatives -- have made it clear that they favor Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and a strong military. We can't achieve all of those things without raising more revenue. This should be pretty basic arithmetic, even for a conservative.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

It's not amazing that the recession ended about half a year into Obama's presidency. He made the right calls to help reverse the slide. To his credit, Bush also made the right call in signing TARP.

The fact is that we have a spending problem and a revenue problem. Time and time again the American people -- liberals AND conservatives -- have made it clear that they favor Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and a strong military. We can't achieve all of those things without raising more revenue. This should be pretty basic arithmetic, even for a conservative.

Since Obama made the right call, explain how we have .4% and 1.3% GDP growth the first two qtrs. of 2011 and how we have 24 million plus unemployed and under employed Americans today? Obama budgets are 3.7 trillion dollars. the 2008 Bush budget was 3.0 trillion. Look at what we have to show for that increase in spending?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

I have always included intergovt. holdings in debt discussions because that is where they belong. Obama has added 4 trillion to the debt in less than 3 years and what do we have to show for it, 24+ million Americans unemployed or under employed, .4% and 1.3% 2012 GDP growth and we are two years after the end of a recession.

Total debt is all that matters for that is what we pay debt service on

No, Obama did not add $4 trillion to the debt. Most of that spending was beyond his control. If he had tried to slash spending the deficit would be even worse, given that pesky worst-recession-since-WWII problem he had to deal with. I realize this is usually the intellectual "bridge too far" for many conservatives; if you go to austerity measures during a recession it makes the recession worse, which has a drastic effect on revenue, which increases the deficit.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Why do we need to raise taxes and how does raising taxes put 24 million unemployed and under employed Americans back to full time work?
It worked for Clinton.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

No, Obama did not add $4 trillion to the debt. Most of that spending was beyond his control. If he had tried to slash spending the deficit would be even worse, given that pesky worst-recession-since-WWII problem he had to deal with. I realize this is usually the intellectual "bridge too far" for many conservatives; if you go to austerity measures during a recession it makes the recession worse, which has a drastic effect on revenue, which increases the deficit.

Where do you get your information? Obama was in the Congress and voted for TARP yet he claims he inherited a deficit which of course included TARP. You cannot inherit what you helped create. You continue to buy his rhetoric and the question is why? GDP growth for the past 6 qtrs has declined, why? What has OBama done that has improved the economy?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Since Obama made the right call, explain how we have .4% and 1.3% GDP growth the first two qtrs. of 2011 and how we have 24 million plus unemployed and under employed Americans today? Obama budgets are 3.7 trillion dollars. the 2008 Bush budget was 3.0 trillion. Look at what we have to show for that increase in spending?

Unfortunately Obama is a human being -- not a wizard who can wave a magic wand and raise the housing and construction industry from the dead. He couldn't mix up a potion and magically make the $10 trillion that world markets shed suddenly reappear (though he's doing a pretty good immitation of that).
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Unfortunately Obama is a human being -- not a wizard who can wave a magic wand and raise the housing and construction industry from the dead. He couldn't mix up a potion and magically make the $10 trillion that world markets shed suddenly reappear (though he's doing a pretty good immitation of that).

Is this what you hired Obama to create?

Obama record, 15.1 million officially unemployed TODAY 2 1/2 years later, 16.2% total unemployment or underemployment over 24 million TODAY, 4 trillion added to the debt as of the end of fiscal year 2011, and a rising misery index(7.83 to 12.67).
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Where do you get your information? Obama was in the Congress and voted for TARP yet he claims he inherited a deficit which of course included TARP. You cannot inherit what you helped create. You continue to buy his rhetoric and the question is why? GDP growth for the past 6 qtrs has declined, why? What has OBama done that has improved the economy?

TARP was approved by both houses of Congress and signed by a Republican Congress. Obama didn't approve of the Bush tax cuts or the Iraq war. Should we subtract those expenses from his deficit numbers?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

TARP was approved by both houses of Congress and signed by a Republican Congress. Obama didn't approve of the Bush tax cuts or the Iraq war. Should we subtract those expenses from his deficit numbers?

Here we go again, the Bush tax cuts caused the deficits when there is no proof of that at all and in fact Bush is being judged by people like you on false information. From 2003-2007 Govt. revenue grew after those tax cuts thus couldn't cause any deficit.

Deficits are yearly debt is cumulative. Obama has increased defense spending over the Bush years while the wars are being wound down. Sorry but the deficits are Obama's and not Bush's.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Is this what you hired Obama to create?

Obama record, 15.1 million officially unemployed TODAY 2 1/2 years later, 16.2% total unemployment or underemployment over 24 million TODAY, 4 trillion added to the debt as of the end of fiscal year 2011, and a rising misery index(7.83 to 12.67).

Indeed, you can point to the numbers and say "SEE!" all day long, but it means nothing unless you also consider what *could* have happened without his policies, and also what he's had to contend with (i.e., a minority that has opposed his every move and thrown out the rule book to subvert majority rule).

Let's try an analogy. Say your house catches on fire and it's burning out of control. The fire department responds immediately and manages to put out the flames, saving most of the structure so that it can be rebuilt. Do you say, "hey, thanks for saving what you could"? In your case, you say, "hey, you firefighters suck! My taxes pay you guys and look what happened! Half my house is burned and the rest is water logged!!"
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

It's not amazing that the recession ended about half a year into Obama's presidency. He made the right calls to help reverse the slide.
Ah... So, since The Obama has enacted economic policy to 'take over' control of the "Bush economy", He then is responsible for what happens to said economy.
I will be sure to look for you taking Him to task in that regard, especially in terms of low GDP growth, high unemployment and slow job growth.
 
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Re: Obama: We have a deal

Indeed, you can point to the numbers and say "SEE!" all day long, but it means nothing unless you also consider what *could* have happened without his policies, and also what he's had to contend with (i.e., a minority that has opposed his every move and thrown out the rule book to subvert majority rule).

Let's try an analogy. Say your house catches on fire and it's burning out of control. The fire department responds immediately and manages to put out the flames, saving most of the structure so that it can be rebuilt. Do you say, "hey, thanks for saving what you could"? In your case, you say, "hey, you firefighters suck! My taxes pay you guys and look what happened! Half my house is burned and the rest is water logged!!"

What could have happened? You want to believe what Obama tells you yet has never been right on any economic prediction. What is it about Obama that creates such loyalty. Stop buying the rhetoric and get the facts.

The house(economy) wasn't burning down when Obama took office, the recession was winding down. You want so badly to believe he saved the economy but ignore the results today which show a different story. 14.4 trillion in debt, 24+ million unemployed or under employed Americans, most unemployed than when he took office, and a disastrous GDP which indicates a double dip possibility. Obama is an empty suit lacking in any leadership skills yet you buy the smile and the rhetoric.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Here we go again, the Bush tax cuts caused the deficits when there is no proof of that at all and in fact Bush is being judged by people like you on false information. From 2003-2007 Govt. revenue grew after those tax cuts thus couldn't cause any deficit.

Deficits are yearly debt is cumulative. Obama has increased defense spending over the Bush years while the wars are being wound down. Sorry but the deficits are Obama's and not Bush's.

Of course there's proof that the tax cuts increased deficits. Don't be silly. They increased the debt by over $1.2 TRILLION. Some peg the cost at over $2 trillion.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Sure did, gave him a GOP Congress that submitted budgets less than Clinton wanted
If that were true, the growth in employment wouldn't have begun before Republicans took over the Congress in 1995 -- but it did. At jobs kept growing until Bush took over, even though Republicans still controlled the Congress.
 
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