• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Breaking: Agreement has been reached on raising the debt limit....

Re: Obama: We have a deal

Nothing that happened during the Bush term is relevant now as there never has been a President in modern history two years after the end of a recession have these kind of numbers. Unemployment higher than when he took office, Employment lower than when he took office, economic growth is stagnant. Does it really matter what Bush did 2 1/2 years after Obama took office?

Not one time in modern history has a financial recession, and later a liquidity trap occurred in succession. Given you lack the macro understanding that is required to discuss such a topic, ill stop here.

Obama record, 15.1 million officially unemployed TODAY 2 1/2 years later, 16.2% total unemployment or underemployment over 24 million TODAY, 4 trillion added to the debt as of the end of fiscal year 2011, and a rising misery index(7.83 to 12.67).

Why do you believe the private sector is oblivious to any blame? Last time i checked, they are the ones who spur growth. The "they are too afraid" argument lacks both a theoretical and practical framework.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Where did I make any comment here about the Constitution? Do you just take a person's comment and run with it in any direction you wish? I was commenting about compromise and the Boston Tea Party, which is exactly what I said. And then you spout what you did above. Sheesh.

I am still awaiting your proof about your comments regarding the changes of our Constitution by the Civil War. You did not reply with anything. I'm patient. I will continue to wait; however, I fear that Hell will freeze over first.

I already said that the Constitution didn't change, but that the implementation changed anyway. So if you want an argument on how the Constitution changed, you're not going to get one from me because it didn't. Things happen that aren't reflected in the Constitution. There's more to history than the Constitution.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

A waiver isn't subsidizing private business.

Why do they need a waiver; what does Obamacare do to these small businesses?

Obamacare does nothing to lower costs and in fact increases costs on small businesses. Without waivers they are forced into the system.

How does it increase the cost on small businesses?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

So basically what you want to do is drive the the debt higher and higher by cutting revenue without any appreciable spending cuts? Our effective corporate taxes are already the lowest in the industrial world. If we cut them further companies will just accumulate more cash. Extending Obamacare waivers to everyone will accomplish nothing. Reducing the inheritance tas further will affect almost no one.

If that's the republican plan then it's a recipe for disaster.

That is always the opinion of the book smart street stupid liberals who don't understand human behavior. Right now 24 + million unemployed or under employed Americans are paying what in FIT? Hiring these people is a must.

Liberalism is a recipe for disaster that is playing out today. It wasn't the private sector that created the 14.4 trillion dollar debt and it won't be the private sector that is going to fund liberalism in the future.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Why do they need a waiver; what does Obamacare do to these small businesses?



How does it increase the cost on small businesses?

Don't know much about Obamacare, do you? Think Obamacare is free to small businesses for their employees?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Not one time in modern history has a financial recession, and later a liquidity trap occurred in succession. Given you lack the macro understanding that is required to discuss such a topic, ill stop here.



Why do you believe the private sector is oblivious to any blame? Last time i checked, they are the ones who spur growth. The "they are too afraid" argument lacks both a theoretical and practical framework.

Obviously you have never run a business, I have so I will stop there
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Don't know much about Obamacare, do you? Think Obamacare is free to small businesses for their employees?

Why not answer my question in the entirety it deserves!?!?!? Here is a hint: discuss the tax liabilities (and closed subsidies) as a result of Obamacare!
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Don't see the 8 million job losses so you probably should call BLS and tell them they screwed up

Employment

2001 137778
2002 135701
2003 137417
2004 138472
2005 140245
2006 143142
2007 146032
2008 146421
2009 142221

Unemployment

2001 6023
2002 8182
2003 8520
2004 8370
2005 7784
2006 7059
2007 7085
2008 7628
2009 11919
They didn't screw up -- you did.

I said 8 miollion jobs were lost during Bush's Great Recession, not during his 8 years in office.

It was his recession he handed Obama, which lost 8 million jobs.

12,000,000 if you count underemployment.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Obviously you have never run a business, I have so I will stop there

Long term producer cost(s) and their projections are moderate at best. You have no shred of evidence that suggests the cost of doing business will increase at rate which is a negative to U.S. job creation. On the contrary, there is a great deal of evidence that points to an aggregate demand shortfall that persists to this day.
 
And call me jaded, but these triggers that are supposed to happen when / if the Congress or this committee cannot agree... my crystal ball says those triggers will quickly fade away and be ignored or removed entirely. This debate and fight will happen all again.

Exactly what I've been saying this whole time. Hopefully this crisis was a wake up call and this time they won't ignore their own legislature or seek out loopholes. However in the short term, I'm glad an agreement was finally reached. That's a huge step forward and now we just need to keep holding them accountable and ensuring that these cuts are all made and that everyone sticks to the deal :)
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Why not answer my question in the entirety it deserves!?!?!? Here is a hint: discuss the tax liabilities (and closed subsidies) as a result of Obamacare!

Tell that to the small businesses that have to accept Obamacare and pay for their employees. Who do you think pays for that?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

They didn't screw up -- you did.

I said 8 miollion jobs were lost during Bush's Great Recession, not during his 8 years in office.

It was his recession he handed Obama, which lost 8 million jobs.

12,000,000 if you count underemployment.

And almost 25 million today. Is that what you hired Obama to create?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Tell that to the small businesses that have to accept Obamacare and pay for their employees. Who do you think pays for that?

Another failed attempt to dodge my question: what is the cost increase that Obamacare poses to businesses?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Obama and his policies? What exactly are those policies?
The ones he bragged about during his acceptance speech ...

"Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all- time high." ~ George Bush, 9.2.2004, RNC acceptance speech
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Long term producer cost(s) and their projections are moderate at best. You have no shred of evidence that suggests the cost of doing business will increase at rate which is a negative to U.S. job creation. On the contrary, there is a great deal of evidence that points to an aggregate demand shortfall that persists to this day.

Right now there is no such certainty on anything and businesses aren't going to spend their money with this uncertainty. No one knows what the tax liability is going to be and what the cost of hiring employees. Unlike the govt. private business cannot print money like the federal govt. Businesses work on a five year plan and with uncertainty they aren't going to hire people. Obama and liberals don't understand that or costs at all.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

The ones he bragged about during his acceptance speech ...

"Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all- time high." ~ George Bush, 9.2.2004, RNC acceptance speech

and right there in the front row was Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. What was the Democrat plan for home ownership?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Another failed attempt to dodge my question: what is the cost increase that Obamacare poses to businesses?

Initial estimates are 1400 per employee and for a small business that is huge. Why is it the Government's responsibility to force a private business to provide healthcare for their employees and charge them for it?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

As for Obama declining GDP growth every qtr since 2010 which is after the recession ended and I see no economic plan to grow the private sector and grow the economy.
Umm, GDP for 2010 was 3.0%. That's better than 6 out of George Bush's 8 years in office.

Under employed and unemployed today is over 24 million, 16.2% X 154 million
So? 12 million of them lost their jobs during Bush's Great recession alone. Where's your outrage?

Since then, that number has shrunk by 700,000. Where's your applause?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

The ones he bragged about during his acceptance speech ...

"Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all- time high." ~ George Bush, 9.2.2004, RNC acceptance speech

I confess that there are many things about which I am ignorant and one is home ownership in 2004. Sheik, when President Bush said this in 2004, was this statement true or false?
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Right now there is no such certainty on anything and businesses aren't going to spend their money with this uncertainty.

This can be said during any period of U.S. history. These "well no ****" comments instantly sterilize the discussion.

No one knows what the tax liability is going to be and what the cost of hiring employees.

WTF are you talking about? Businesses have witnessed future tax liability increase, year-over-year, since 1981. The average year-to-maturity on U.S. debt is about 5.7. Nothing you have posted suggests that long term producer costs are set to skyrocket.

Unlike the govt. private business cannot print money like the federal govt. Businesses work on a five year plan and with uncertainty they aren't going to hire people. Obama and liberals don't understand that or costs at all.

You have not identified any cost increases, and instead stick to talking points that lack any and all identification of these "so called" uncertainties. All the while, you ignore an obvious aggregate demand shortfall of which taxes cuts cannot remedy.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Umm, GDP for 2010 was 3.0%. That's better than 6 out of George Bush's 8 years in office.


So? 12 million of them lost their jobs during Bush's Great recession alone. Where's your outrage?

Since then, that number has shrunk by 700,000. Where's your applause?

Talk to Goldenboy, what do you expect when you spend over a trillion dollars of taxpayer money? Good lord, Man, it is .4% and 1.3% now shows how he really motivated the private sector and how the stimulus failed.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

I confess that there are many things about which I am ignorant and one is home ownership in 2004. Sheik, when President Bush said this in 2004, was this statement true or false?

That's like saying, "thanks to beer, people having sex is at an all time high" which ignores the externalities associated with such a rate of sexual activity (or in the former case, home ownership).
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

This can be said during any period of U.S. history. These "well no ****" comments instantly sterilize the discussion.



WTF are you talking about? Businesses have witnessed future tax liability increase, year-over-year, since 1981. The average year-to-maturity on U.S. debt is about 5.7. Nothing you have posted suggests that long term producer costs are set to skyrocket.



You have not identified any cost increases, and instead stick to talking points that lack any and all identification of these "so called" uncertainties. All the while, you ignore an obvious aggregate demand shortfall of which taxes cuts cannot remedy.

Do you have a solution to the economic malaise that is here today, the extremely high unemployment, and the anemic GDP growth? You can shoot down everything I say but until you offer a plan of your own, you have no credibility here.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

Talk to Goldenboy, what do you expect when you spend over a trillion dollars of taxpayer money? Good lord, Man, it is .4% and 1.3% now shows how he really motivated the private sector and how the stimulus failed.

The president cannot truly motivate the private sector when the global economy is operating (primarily) in a deleveraging manner. There are only two choices; try to smooth consumption or allow liquidation to ravage the nation/most of the developed world.
 
Re: Obama: We have a deal

I confess that there are many things about which I am ignorant and one is home ownership in 2004. Sheik, when President Bush said this in 2004, was this statement true or false?

Trying to figure out how that statement is a problem? Notice how Sheik never talks about the Democrat alternative on any issue whether it be this issue or Medicare Part D
 
Back
Top Bottom