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U.S. GDP Grows Just 1.3%

Let's remember that we the Federal budget expires Oct. 1. So this argument about what we promised to pay only extends until then. The other problem with the democratic talking point is that the congress refuses to do it's job, so we never even get a vote on what our "obligations" are.

Many people are getting tired of these gottya phrases that are unthinking talking points made by lame politicians and their flunkies.

It is well past the time we should get serious about the problems facing the nation.
We shouldn't have a debt ceiling, our debt should only be limited by market forces, not by some arbitrary figure. If country are not willing to buy our debt at the interest rate offered that is your debt ceiling.
 
Hello, do you still not get it? We can't pay all those people you mentioned if we don't raise the debt limit. If we pay our creditors we can't pay our military and Medicare recipients. If we pay our military and Medicare recipients we can't pay our creditors. This isn't rocket science!
This is false. The US government took in more than $2.2T in revenue in FY2009 - that's abetter than an order of magnitude greater than our debt service.
Not being able to borrow more monet simply means we have less money to spend - at which point you decide how must to reduce spending on whatever.

To say that we cannot pay X Y Z if we cannot borrow more money is either a statement of ignorance, or a lie.
 
U6 unemployment rate during that period went from 7.3% to to 9.7%, a 2.4 point increase (33%). You want Obama's head on a stick because it went from 14% to 16.2%, a 2.2 point increase (16%).

underemployment increases 2.4 points under Bush, Conservative: "Four more years!"

underemployment increases 2.2 points under Obama, Conservative: "Impeach him!"

Just admit you're a hypocrite. Get that weight off your shoulder.

There's nothing strange or hypocritical going on, you just haven't taken into consideration how these values compare with the historical record [The historical average for U6 is 10.1, with a range of 6.8 to 17.4 and a median value of 9.4 (BLS; LNS13327709)].

So... although the unemployment rate increased by a similar margin under both Presidents,
  • In 2001-3 it increased from an unusually low value, back to something fairly average/typical. [A 7.3% or better rate is observed only 6 months out every 100. At 9.7%, the last month is right at the median.]
  • Since 2009, it has increased from a fairly high level to something even more atypical.
The first was an excellent situation that slipped, and the second was a bad situation that only got worse.
 
"Not to worry" Bernanke assures us.

We should forget all this and get back to ensuring that we raise the debt ceiling under the guise of some pretend "cuts" to take on a couple more trillion dollars. After all, it's the "responsible" "adult" thing to do.

Following the example of our great President, one should always seek "balance" when it comes to negotiations, but avoid it all cost when it comes to budgets.

and Obamacare... So much for compromise, eh?
 
Your analogy is inapposite. If the debt ceiling isn't raised we will be unable to meet existing obligations -- not just future obligations. So let's look at a corrected version of your analogy:

Your personal debt ceiling isn't raised and you choose to pay your mortgage. But that means you won't be able to pay your electricity bill, your cable bill, your phone bill, or your car payment. These are all obligations you have already incurred and that you have promised to pay. This will affect your credit rating. And as a side note, your electricity, phone, and cable will be cut off, and your car will be repo'd.


I am sorry you are wrong. We can continue to service the debt and pay any contractual obligations easily.
 
We shouldn't have a debt ceiling, our debt should only be limited by market forces, not by some arbitrary figure

that's like saying we shouldn't immunize children, but rather let them beat killer diseases by running into the real thing. The Statutory Debt Ceiling is designed to help us avoid the calamity that would be running into the real debt ceiling.
 
We shouldn't have a debt ceiling, our debt should only be limited by market forces, not by some arbitrary figure. If country are not willing to buy our debt at the interest rate offered that is your debt ceiling.

Without a debt ceiling congress has to approve all borrowing.
 
This is false. The US government took in more than $2.2T in revenue in FY2009 - that's abetter than an order of magnitude greater than our debt service.
Not being able to borrow more monet simply means we have less money to spend - at which point you decide how must to reduce spending on whatever.

To say that we cannot pay X Y Z if we cannot borrow more money is either a statement of ignorance, or a lie.

If we default the odds on fav to get their dough will be bondholders, also high on the list will be Social Security and Medicare recipients. Gotta keep us geezers placated, otherwise we will be marching in the streets with teabags hanging from our turbans, toting signs saying DON'T TOUCH OUR MEDICARE.

The number 40 percent(as in stiffing the 40 percent )keeps popping up, seein as we borrow 40 cents for every dollar we spend.:2wave:
 
If we default the odds on fav to get their dough will be bondholders, also high on the list will be Social Security and Medicare recipients. Gotta keep us geezers placated, otherwise we will be marching in the streets with teabags hanging from our turbans, toting signs saying DON'T TOUCH OUR MEDICARE.

The number 40 percent(as in stiffing the 40 percent )keeps popping up, seein as we borrow 40 cents for every dollar we spend.:2wave:

Huh? The "40%" are the bondholders. That's who we borrowed from.
 
Huh? The "40%" are the bondholders. That's who we borrowed from.

Sorry,what i meant was we will be stiffing "40%" of the people we owe money to.I think that the bondholders will be the last that we stiff.
 
What's the problem, Adam, a little logic, common sense, and facts confusing you? You must be asking yourself how in the world did the liberal rhetoric be so wrong since they "mean so well?" Noticed that when presented with facts you either ignore them or simply don't respond at all.

Assuming, arguendo, that your numbers are accurate, you haven't addressed the revenue side of the equation, which renders your argument meaningless. What's more, your spending analysis is woefully oversimplified. The government doesn't *just* pay interest on the debt -- it also has to repay the principal! Thus, in the next 30 days, the Treasury has $500 billion in notes coming due. Oops. I guess that throws off your "facts" a little bit. Now, as Secretary Geithner pointed out, the normal course is for debt holders to buy new Treasuries when their existing ones expire, but it's quite likely that lenders will be reluctant to do that if the country is bouncing checks left and right.
 
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Assuming, arguendo, that your numbers are accurate, you haven't addressed the revenue side of the equation, which renders your argument meaningless. What's more, your spending analysis is woefully oversimplified. The government doesn't *just* pay interest on the debt -- it also has to repay the principal! Thus, in the next 30 days, the Treasury has $500 billion in notes coming due. Oops. I guess that throws off your "facts" a little bit. Now, as Secretary Geithner pointed out, the normal course is for debt holders to buy new Treasuries when their existing ones expire, but it's quite likely that lenders will be reluctant to do that if the country is bouncing checks left and right.

You issue was default and I showed you that there were enough revenue to pay our debt service which prevents default. We don't need a 3.7 trillion dollar Federal Govt. and that is the point. We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem
 
The average year to maturity on all U.S. debt is between 59 and 65 months.
 
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A note on inflation: In capitalist economies in order to have economic growth you have to have inflation, but that doesn't mean that the politicians are doing a good job. Free trade and economic deficits are speeding up the process in ruining our dollar.
 
A note on inflation: In capitalist economies in order to have economic growth you have to have inflation, but that doesn't mean that the politicians are doing a good job. Free trade and economic deficits are speeding up the process in ruining our dollar.

Inflation is still at a sub-optimal level! The dollar will continue to be the reserve currency as long as the rest of the world requires us to import their manufactured goods.
 
Inflation is still at a sub-optimal level! The dollar will continue to be the reserve currency as long as the rest of the world requires us to import their manufactured goods.

Wouldn't demand for it go down then?
 
You issue was default and I showed you that there were enough revenue to pay our debt service which prevents default. We don't need a 3.7 trillion dollar Federal Govt. and that is the point. We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem

Once more, slowly: it isn't just a failure to pay the debt service that results in a default. ANY failure to pay our obligations is a default.
 
Inflation is still at a sub-optimal level! The dollar will continue to be the reserve currency as long as the rest of the world requires us to import their manufactured goods.

Super low inflation is actually a problem at the moment. Corporations would not be sitting on a $2 trillion pile of cash if it was being devalued at a rate of 10-15% per year.

As far as our being the reserve currency, it brings to mind the old bear joke: "Two campers were hiking in the forest when all of a sudden a bear jumps out of a bush and starts chasing them. Both campers start running for their lives, when one of them stops and starts to put on his running shoes.

His partner says, 'What are you doing? You can't outrun a bear!'

His friend replies, 'I don't have to outrun the bear, I only have to outrun you!'"

In other words, we just have to be a less scary alternative than Europe and China.
 
Thats not entirely true.

Historical Inflation Rates: 1914-2011, Annual and Monthly Tables - US Inflation Calculator

According to that we are in the highest inflation rate since about 1990; its also trending upwards, thats a bad sign. Hard to say if its going to continue or not.

Are you reading the same data I'm reading? CPI was at 3.6% for both May and June 2011. It was much higher just 3 years ago at the peak of the financial crisis, according to that data. If you go further back, 2005 had some months where CPI hovered around 4%, and there were some moderately high inflation rates during the recession of 2001. With all due respect, am I missing something here and just reading the chart wrong?
 
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Uh, yeah, unless you count 2008 and a whole bunch of other years between this year and 1990! :D

I think he's counting the June 2011 CPI and comparing it to all the previous yearly averages, which is kind of an apples-to-oranges comparison.
 
Nah I missed some data. Been a long week. Part of the inflation indicators were a false flag--housing costs. They skyrocketed about that time but yeah I missed some data. My bad.
 
Wouldn't demand for it go down then?

Why would demand for dollars fall if our trading partners want us to buy more of their goods than we sell to them(a positive current account with the U.S.)?
 
Thats not entirely true.

Historical Inflation Rates: 1914-2011, Annual and Monthly Tables - US Inflation Calculator

According to that we are in the highest inflation rate since about 1990; its also trending upwards, thats a bad sign. Hard to say if its going to continue or not.

No, you are misreading the table. Global demand for cheap commodities in the emerging world is outpacing North America, Western Europe, and Japan. The mantra behind productivity (which naturally forces prices downward) gains is doing more with less; it is what separates us from them.
 
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