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U.S. GDP Grows Just 1.3%

Taylor said:
Well that came out of left field - why all the guilt?

It's like I just walked out of the pantry with an open jar in hand and said "Shoot, we're about out of peanut butter"... and you come tearing into the kitchen, "Yeah!? So what if the jar's almost empty! What, do you expect me to eat nothing? Are you really going to sit here and say you've never had a PBJ sandwich? Are you!!?"
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Fair enough. :)

I'm afraid it's become an automatic response conditioned by an endless stream of complaints from conservatives about Obama, followed by absolutely no suggestion as to what they would have done differently that wouldn't have actually made the situation much worse.
 
Conservative said:
Do you get your annual credit report? How does increasing your credit card debt affect your credit score especiallyw when you have rising debt?
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Sure let's run with your example. What's worse for your credit, raising your credit limit or defaulting?

The money has ALREADY been spent. First you pay on the debt you owe then you can look at your spending habits. Dumb ass teabaggers want to look at spending habits whe defaulting on the debt they already owe.
 
Taylor said:
Yeah, well according to projections issued in Jan. 2008, we're due for surpluses as far as the eye can see, and were expected to average just 4.9% unemployment for 2010-2013.

We kind of suck with budget projections.

Sheesh, it's only been a couple years since those 2009 projections, and they're already proving to be hundreds of billions off.

The only thing we can really be certain about is that when bad things do happen, it's because of Bush, Beck, and those tea party rabble-rousers stirring mistrust.
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Shhh, don't tell that to Pb as he thinks his chart is a winner
 
Conservative said:
Yes, Congress makes the laws and prior to January 2011 the Democrats took total control of that Congress in January 2007. Obama had a blank check and generated those numbers. The actual problem is we have a Community Organizer as President and not a leader. Confidence comes from good leadership and we have none right now
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A simple question are you against raising the 'debt ceiling' only at this instance in time, or are you against the practice per se?

Paul
 
TheNextEra said:
Sure let's run with your example. What's worse for your credit, raising your credit limit or defaulting?

The money has ALREADY been spent. First you pay on the debt you owe then you can look at your spending habits. Dumb ass teabaggers want to look at spending habits whe defaulting on the debt they already owe.
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Explain why we are defaulting on anything? the money hasn't been spent, the money continues to come in to fund our true obligations. Do you think needless departments are obligations?
 
gunner said:
A simple question are you against raising the 'debt ceiling' only at this instance in time, or are you against the practice per se?

Paul
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I am against raising the debt ceiling until massive spending cuts are implemented. We don't need a 3.7 trillion dollar Federal Govt and that is the point. There is more than enough revenue to pay for our true obligations.
 
TheNextEra said:
Sure let's run with your example. What's worse for your credit, raising your credit limit or defaulting?

The money has ALREADY been spent. First you pay on the debt you owe then you can look at your spending habits. Dumb ass teabaggers want to look at spending habits whe defaulting on the debt they already owe.
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Debt service last year was 195 billion dollars or less than 20 billion a month. We have approximately 200 billion coming in in August so why are we defaulting on debt service?
 
pbrauer said:
Look at 2009 which is Bush's budget, a $1.2 trillion deficit.
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Bush did put together a budget for 2009, but let's not pretend that Obama faithfully followed the plan, adding only $187 billion.

For example, I don't remember him doing any of this:
Spending Discipline
The 2009 Budget proposes that total discretionary spending rise no faster than the size of the
economy, to prevent day-to-day Government spending from consuming an even larger share of the
Nation’s pocketbook. It also proposes to hold the rate of growth for non-security discretionary
spending to less than one percent, well below the rate of inflation. This spending discipline requires
tough choices among many competing priorities.

In constructing the Budget, each program was closely reviewed to determine if it is among the
Nation’s top priorities and if the program is effective and producing the intended results. Failure to
meet these criteria resulted in the proposed termination or reduction of 151 programs for a savings
of over $18 billion, a step that will help channel resources to more effective programs. Funding for
program integrity efforts have also been increased to reduce waste, fraud, and abuse—including the
reduction of improper payments to ineligible recipients.
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Or this...
In total, the Budget proposes to terminate or reduce 151 discretionary programs, reducing
2009 spending by $18 billion. These include 103 terminations saving $7 billion and 48
reductions saving $11 billion. The Budget also proposes mandatory spending reforms that
will achieve an additional $16 billion in net savings in 2009, and result in $208 billion in
savings through 2013. Mandatory savings proposals highlighted in this volume total $19
billion in 2009 and $233 billion through 2013, and exclude reforms that are cost-neutral
or result in cost increases.
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We could go on, but I think the point has been made.
 
Conservative said:
Explain why we are defaulting on anything? the money hasn't been spent, the money continues to come in to fund our true obligations. Do you think needless departments are obligations?
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Come on, Conservative. You know that's not how it works. The revenue comes in, Treasury pays it out. This happens each and every month of the year; it never stops. If it did, Treasury would be able to stockpile cash and pay bills at its discretion. By law, it simply cannot do that. It can't pick and choose which bills it will pay and which bills it can't or won't pay, not unless some tragedy happens such as what may happen if the debt limit isn't raised or a budget isn't passed by Congress. We got the budgets for FY10 and 11 out the way; now, we just have to resolve this debt limit issue.
 
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Conservative said:
Debt service last year was 195 billion dollars or less than 20 billion a month. We have approximately 200 billion coming in in August so why are we defaulting on debt service?
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We default by failing to pay any of our obligations -- it isn't just down to debt sevice.
 
AdamT said:
We default by failing to pay any of our obligations -- it isn't just down to debt sevice.
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Name our obligations? you think the total 3.7 trillion dollar budget is an obligation? The only obligations we truly have are to the debt holders, our military, our veterans, and our SS/Medicare Recipients. Stop buying the Obama rhetoric
 
Objective Voice said:
Come on, Conservative. You know that's not how it works. The revenue comes in, Treasury pays it out. This happens each and every month of the year; it never stops. If it did, Treasury would be able to stockpile cash and pay bills at its discretion. By law, it simply cannot do that. It can't pick and choose which bills it will pay and which bills it can't or won't pay, not unless some tragedy happens such as what may happen if the debt limit isn't raised or a budget isn't passed by Congress. We got the budgets for FY10 and 11 out the way; now, we just have to resolve this debt limit issue.
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I know how it works, take money from the American taxpayer and use it to fund a bloated federal bureaucracy that has out of control spending then convince the braindead the govt. is there to help us all. BS.
 
AdamT said:
We default by failing to pay any of our obligations -- it isn't just down to debt sevice.
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It is. We default by failing to pay our debts. If you have a mortgage you don't default because you cancel your internet service.
 
RStringfield said:
It is. We default by failing to pay our debts. If you have a mortgage you don't default because you cancel your internet service.
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By failing to pay for your internet service you default on your obligation to pay for your internet service. You think it's not going to affect your credit rating?
 
RStringfield said:
It is. We default by failing to pay our debts. If you have a mortgage you don't default because you cancel your internet service.
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Er wrong analogy.... big time. You are not cancelling your internet service, you are not paying for your internet service but still have a contract with the internet service provider. If you wanted to cancel your internet service, then you would have done it already.. which you have not done.
 
AdamT said:
By failing to pay for your internet service you default on your obligation to pay for your internet service. You think it's not going to affect your credit rating?
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The difference is most of the default would be for govt. agencies not outside services. Default didn't seem to matter when Govt. Motors(GM) defaulted with its bond holders and creditors? don't recall Obama take over saving those investors and creditors?

We have been through this for 2 1/2 years now so why do you keep buying the Obama lies?
 
Objective Voice said:
donsutherland1 and CriticalThought are the only posters to this thread who make sense. If you pay attention to the economic indicators, you're really not throwing yourself into a panic over what's happened with the economic growth numbers. They are relatively close to what most economist expected. A -0.5% difference (1.8 - 1.3) isn't much to panic about. The economy's in the ballpark of analysist estimates.
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hehe.. A half a percentage point is a huge, and I mean HUGE number, what the hell are you talking about? Also, is it just me, or is anyone else tired of the gobbly goop mumbo jumbo economist word-speak coming from Washington, and Wall St.? I mean, really now. They all try to sound like they have some unique insight into the compexities of our economy, and the truth is that they don't. We KNOW what the damn problem is, but no one is willing to simply admit it...

It has been proven (About the only thing that is a mathmatical axiom) that exponential growth is unsustainable.. PERIOD! We cannot contnue growing in any area, economic, population, or anything without periods of slowing down, or decrease in growth.. It's that simple. That's why bubbles always burst, and every honest economist KNOWS this is true!

Time we stopped pretending to know more than we know..


Tim-
 
RStringfield said:
It is. We default by failing to pay our debts. If you have a mortgage you don't default because you cancel your internet service.
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As much as some of us (apparently a minority) would like to "cancel internet service" (i.e. choose to cut monthly spending) - that's different than simply failing to pay the bill. No, it's not going to default your mortgage, but it could certainly harm your credit rating.

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I can certainly see reason for caution on both sides as to how "default" is defined. Technical default, which is certainly undesirable, should not be equated with debt service debt in an "it's all default so let's treat it the same" argument. On the flip side, it seems to me that many who make the claim that technical default isn't really a "true" default (not necessarily you in particular) are hiding behind symantics rather than discussing the very real impact of failing to make those payments (regardless of how one wishes to define "default").
 
Conservative said:
You don't see a problem with accepting such low expectations especially 2 years after the end of the recession?
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I don't see what everyone is upset about. The recession ended two years ago. :2razz:
 
Thorgasm said:
I don't see what everyone is upset about. The recession ended two years ago. :2razz:
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Of course it did and .4% GDP growth first qtr and 1.3% GDP growth the second quarter are awesome liberal results along with the following 2 1/2 years after taking office.

Obama record, 15.1 million officially unemployed TODAY 2 1/2 years later, 16.2% total unemployment or underemployment over 24 million TODAY, 4 trillion added to the debt as of the end of fiscal year 2011, and a rising misery index(7.83 to 12.67).
 
Conservative said:
Default didn't seem to matter when Govt. Motors(GM) defaulted with its bond holders and creditors? don't recall Obama take over saving those investors and creditors?

We have been through this for 2 1/2 years now so why do you keep buying the Obama lies?
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I think it would certainly "matter" - what I question is the (seemingly blind) assumption that any risk of "backlash" from investors and creditors will *poof* disappear when we raise the debt ceiling. "Out of sight out of mind." The "backlash" seems inevitable unless we can make the sorts of tough decisions/tough cuts/tough stands that are currently being chastized in the media. Big picture, anyone?

I mean -- it seems like a lot of people simply assume that (while we may be in a tough spot right now), things are bound to pick up eventually, so we'll just keep borrowing money to get by, interest rates will remain low forever, and we can worry about paying our debts sometime way out in the future, painlessly, when we're again rolling in easy money. That's the sort of optimism that sold a lot of McMansions.
 
Thorgasm said:
I don't see what everyone is upset about. The recession ended two years ago. :2razz:
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Slow growth can actually be worse than a recession. It prompts people to make dramatic moves that aren't necessary such as massive stimulus bills or dramatic spending cuts, to encourage the populace that something is being done.
 
Taylor said:
I think it would certainly "matter" - what I question is the (seemingly blind) assumption that any risk of "backlash" from investors and creditors will *poof* disappear when we raise the debt ceiling. "Out of sight out of mind." The "backlash" seems inevitable unless we can make the sorts of tough decisions/tough cuts/tough stands that are currently being chastized in the media. Big picture, anyone?

I mean -- it seems like a lot of people simply assume that (while we may be in a tough spot right now), things are bound to pick up eventually, so we'll just keep borrowing money to get by, interest rates will remain low forever, and we can worry about paying our debts sometime way out in the future, painlessly, when we're again rolling in easy money. That's the sort of optimism that sold a lot of McMansions.
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What really bothers me is we still have a group of people who continue to ignore the Obama lies and buy the Obama rhetoric. There is nothing balanced or fair about what Obama is doing and he knows it. He is orchestrating this debt crisis as a lifeline to re-election as he believes he can blame the Republicans and the minions of brainwashed and braindead continue to buy it. Most don't have a clue and ignore we have no business being where we are today without Obama orchestrating it. Democrats had overwhelming control of Congress from 2009-2011 and did what, never passed a budget, never addressed the debt ceiling, and now want the issue to pin that on Republicans. Too bad there are millions who are good at placing blame but poor at accepting responsibility.
 
Conservative said:
I know how it works, take money from the American taxpayer and use it to fund a bloated federal bureaucracy that has out of control spending then convince the braindead the govt. is there to help us all. BS.
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The topic isn't about entitlement spending, it's about economic growth. But I am curious...

Are you aware that the Cut, Cap and Balance Act does NOT limit entitlement spending?

SEC. 317. CERTAIN DIRECT SPENDING LIMITS.

‘(a) In General- It shall not be in order in the House of Representatives or the Senate to consider any bill, joint resolution, amendment, or conference report that includes any provision that would cause total direct spending, except as excluded in subsection (b), to exceed the limits specified in subsection (c).

‘(b) Exempt From Direct Spending Limits- Direct spending for the following functions is exempt from the limits specified in subsection (c):

‘(1) Social Security, function 650.

‘(2) Medicare, function 570.

‘(3) Veterans Benefits and Services, function 700.

‘(4) Net Interest, function 900.

‘(c) Limits on Other Direct Spending- The total combined outlays for all direct spending not exempted in subsection (b) for fiscal year 2012 shall not exceed $680,730,000,000.’.
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This has been a consistent pattern in Washington for years. I'm doing some research on it now (which I've invited your assistance in performing if you please (Re: ), in trying to understand the history behind it by both parties. If what I'm discovering holds true, this has been going on since atleast 1984, if not longer.
 
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Conservative said:
Of course it did and .4% GDP growth first qtr and 1.3% GDP growth the second quarter are awesome liberal results along with the following 2 1/2 years after taking office.

Obama record, 15.1 million officially unemployed TODAY 2 1/2 years later, 16.2% total unemployment or underemployment over 24 million TODAY, 4 trillion added to the debt as of the end of fiscal year 2011, and a rising misery index(7.83 to 12.67).
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So you think Obama should create more federal jobs?
 
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