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Program won't cover 9/11 responders for cancer

MrVicchio said:
Reality at it's finest.

Government cannot do everything, cannot solve every problem and fund every issue. Despite the pipe dreams of the liberals. That's why we're 15,000,000,000,000.00 in the hole and counting.
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I say we start by eliminating the VA
 
MrVicchio said:
Reality at it's finest.

Government cannot do everything, cannot solve every problem and fund every issue. Despite the pipe dreams of the liberals. That's why we're 15,000,000,000,000.00 in the hole and counting.
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No one is suggesting they do, so no need for the hyperbolic strawman.
 
I hate to sound callous, but I'm leaning more to the side that our hero culture and culture of entitlement often mix very easily in America. I appreciate what the responders to 9/11 did and I have always wished for them to have coverage for the provable injuries they suffered that day. Having their lungs chemically burned with soot and other burning materials that caused long-term respiratory distress is one aspect that I wanted covered, but a lot of them never received help for it.

But now... the cancer claim is the opposite extreme. The damnable thing about cancer is that you generally can't prove what the source is unless it is something rapid and immediate like radiation. If we could, then corporations all over America would be getting their asses sued off for dumping chemicals in the environment and selling toxic products.

The other thing I'm thinking is - what about the other people in the U.S. who put their lives on the line every single day in order to provide us with certain services? Some jobs that come to mind are hydro workers, coal miners, transport truck drivers, nuclear power plant workers, fishermen etc. Why are those people not considered "heroes"?

You know, back in the blackout of 2003, I was in Toronto when the underground train came to a halt in the tunnels. The city would have been pitch dark if it weren't for the fact it was day light. We barely heard about it but there were stories of hydro workers working 24/7, some of them in dangerous or tiring conditions, to get our power back.

Hero worship is so arbitrary.
 
Temporal said:
I hate to sound callous, but I'm leaning more to the side that our hero culture and culture of entitlement often mix very easily in America. I appreciate what the responders to 9/11 did and I have always wished for them to have coverage for the provable injuries they suffered that day. Having their lungs chemically burned with soot and other burning materials that caused long-term respiratory distress is one aspect that I wanted covered, but a lot of them never received help for it.

But now... the cancer claim is the opposite extreme. The damnable thing about cancer is that you generally can't prove what the source is unless it is something rapid and immediate like radiation. If we could, then corporations all over America would be getting their asses sued off for dumping chemicals in the environment and selling toxic products.

The other thing I'm thinking is - what about the other people in the U.S. who put their lives on the line every single day in order to provide us with certain services? Some jobs that come to mind are hydro workers, coal miners, transport truck drivers, nuclear power plant workers, fishermen etc. Why are those people not considered "heroes"?

You know, back in the blackout of 2003, I was in Toronto when the underground train came to a halt in the tunnels. The city would have been pitch dark if it weren't for the fact it was day light. We barely heard about it but there were stories of hydro workers working 24/7, some of them in dangerous or tiring conditions, to get our power back.

Hero worship is so arbitrary.
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You can make a reasonable assumption that such exposure leads to cancer. Absent of evidence to the contrary, they should be covered.
 
BTW, if respecting those who give for others selflessly is heros worship, count me in. I'm all for it.
 
Temporal said:
I hate to sound callous, but I'm leaning more to the side that our hero culture and culture of entitlement often mix very easily in America. I appreciate what the responders to 9/11 did and I have always wished for them to have coverage for the provable injuries they suffered that day. Having their lungs chemically burned with soot and other burning materials that caused long-term respiratory distress is one aspect that I wanted covered, but a lot of them never received help for it.

But now... the cancer claim is the opposite extreme. The damnable thing about cancer is that you generally can't prove what the source is unless it is something rapid and immediate like radiation. If we could, then corporations all over America would be getting their asses sued off for dumping chemicals in the environment and selling toxic products.

The other thing I'm thinking is - what about the other people in the U.S. who put their lives on the line every single day in order to provide us with certain services? Some jobs that come to mind are hydro workers, coal miners, transport truck drivers, nuclear power plant workers, fishermen etc. Why are those people not considered "heroes"?

You know, back in the blackout of 2003, I was in Toronto when the underground train came to a halt in the tunnels. The city would have been pitch dark if it weren't for the fact it was day light. We barely heard about it but there were stories of hydro workers working 24/7, some of them in dangerous or tiring conditions, to get our power back.

Hero worship is so arbitrary.
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Some of us think everyone should be covered
 
Top Cat said:
Compassionate conservatism at its finest.
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Why aren't the lining up to donate money to the cause, since they don't support government doing it? They always say they donate more, and that's how these issues should be addressed. If they put there money where their mouth is and start a fund, I'll donate. WTF. This is pathetic.
 
MrVicchio said:
Reality at it's finest.

Government cannot do everything, cannot solve every problem and fund every issue. Despite the pipe dreams of the liberals. That's why we're 15,000,000,000,000.00 in the hole and counting.
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Then I'd expect conservatives to be leading the charge in donating money to see that these people are treated with the honor they deserve. If this is how we are going to keep treating our public servants, then we won't have many wanting to do so in the future. They have some of the most dangerous jobs, and the one's I personally know aren't living high on the horse.
 
mostgenerousgivers-thumb.jpg
SheWolf said:
Then I'd expect conservatives to be leading the charge in donating money.
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Just don't expect the rich to pony up

Who are the most generous givers?
 
sangha said:
mostgenerousgivers-thumb.jpg


Just don't expect the rich to pony up

Who are the most generous givers?
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The graph really isn't surprising... It makes sense that the poor and struggling would be willing to donate more, because they know what it's like to struggle. The wealthy will invest most of their money. It also seems like there is more of an attitude towards the wealthier that they worker harder and earned it. The poor are lazy, don't work as hard or as smart, so they aren't as entitled to their money... That's kind of the feel of what I get on these boards and the way posters talk though.
 
SheWolf said:
Then I'd expect conservatives to be leading the charge in donating money to see that these people are treated with the honor they deserve. If this is how we are going to keep treating our public servants, then we won't have many wanting to do so in the future. They have some of the most dangerous jobs, and the one's I personally know aren't living high on the horse.
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Indeed! <I love the way this woman thinks> In all the stories I've read about 9/11 I don't recall reading about a team of brave stockbrokers rushing in to save people from the peril. Oh, hell no. Where were the Bankers to Save Lives of Ordinary People? Wait...no such group exists. Nope it was blue collar Joes and Janes putting their asses out there for their fellow citizens.

Mr.V and others consider those blue collar Joes and Janes to be ****ing chumps and fools for jumping into the disaster and being heroes. Mr.V might tell you that most of the time there's no real money in being a hero so why do it? Better to sit back, figure out how to make a profit on the disaster of others.

No problem 7 years later spending TRILLIONS to help out Wall Street and AIG. But hey, that's the way it goes. If cops and firefighters and medics had any goddamn brains they'd be Libertarians and it'd be "anyway to make a buck".

Where's the puking my guts out icon?
 
sangha said:
I say we start by eliminating the VA
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Good idea! Let's see, SS, Medicaide, Medicare are 60% of the budget, and you want to hit the VA...

For you, it's all political ideology over reality.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Mr.V and others consider those blue collar Joes and Janes to be ****ing chumps and fools for jumping into the disaster and being heroes. Mr.V might tell you that most of the time there's no real money in being a hero so why do it? Better to sit back, figure out how to make a profit on the disaster of others.
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Risky Thicket, apparently is having imaginary conversations with himself, creating arguments that he can then knock down and prove he's righ... wait isn't there a term for that?
 
sangha said:
So you want to keep the VA?
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The VA needs reform, like all government entities, but the country is obligated to care for those that put life and limb on the line for the defense of the country. At least those receiving actually earn the assistance.
 
MrVicchio said:
The VA needs reform, like all government entities, but the country is obligated to care for those that put life and limb on the line for the defense of the country. At least those receiving actually earn the assistance.
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Like fire fighters and police officers and first responders?
 
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MrVicchio said:
The VA needs reform, like all government entities, but the country is obligated to care for those that put life and limb on the line for the defense of the country. At least those receiving actually earn the assistance.
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Most vets have never seen combat. Try again
 
sangha said:
You obviously weren't anywhere near the site in the period shortly after the attack. It was neither the right place, nor the right time
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That makes absolutely no difference.
Can the emotionalism.

sangha said:
The only thing "right" about what was going on there was the way thousands of workers (almost all of them union members) put aside their own interests to do what was needed to recover the site.
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These union members already have medical coverage, why do they need additional coverage for that could or could not be related to their work around the WTC?
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
That makes absolutely no difference.
Can the emotionalism.



These union members already have medical coverage, why do they need additional coverage for that could or could not be related to their work around the WTC?
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It's likely related to their work, and what they have isn't enough.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
That makes absolutely no difference.
Can the emotionalism.
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That's all you've got. All your arguments in this thread depend on appeals to emotion

IOKIYAR

These union members already have medical coverage, why do they need additional coverage for that could or could not be related to their work around the WTC?
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Another appeal to emotion
 
Risky Thicket said:
I expected something like that from you. **** the First Responders, right? They knew what they were getting into when they became cops and firemen and medics. It's their own damn fault. If they had only been Libertarian they'd have said, "Nope, not my job. This wasn't in my contract. You need to call private cops, firemen and medics."

Anyone stupid enough to put their ass out there for the public good is a twat, right Harry?
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Did I say that?
No.

What I said is that there is no evidence that the cancers present in some people are directly related to the carcinogens that they were potentially exposed to during and after the WTC attacks.

1st off, not all of them were exposed to a hazardous level of carcinogens, 2nd exposure to carcinogens does not automatically mean you will develop a cancer related to the exposure, 3rd cancer can develop regardless of whether or not they were exposed to those carcinogens.

Knowing all that, how can any of you conclusively say that their cancers were a direct result of and should paid for because of the WTC attacks.
Answer, none.

You're just caught up in the emotionalism.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Did I say that?
No.

What I said is that there is no evidence that the cancers present in some people are directly related to the carcinogens that they were potentially exposed to during and after the WTC attacks.
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And there's no evidence that the VA only treats combat-related illnesses.

Another appeal to emotion. I thought you were opposed to those.

IOKIYAR
 
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