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GE moving X-ray business to China

adequate health care

well, since you brought it up

the famous uva study cited by the asa finds that americans with NO INSURANCE actually fare better (lower costs, shorter stays, reduced mortalities) than their less fortunate neighbors whose primary pay status is medicaid, the ghetto of american health care

ASA: ASA 130th Annual Meeting Abstracts - Primary Payer Status Affects Mortality For Major Surgical Operations

that's, of course, AFTER controlling for age, gender, income, geographic region, operation, and 30 comorbid conditions, as most informed americans recalls

just the facts, folks
 
well, since you brought it up

the famous uva study cited by the asa finds that americans with NO INSURANCE actually fare better (lower costs, shorter stays, reduced mortalities) than their less fortunate neighbors whose primary pay status is medicaid, the ghetto of american health care

ASA: ASA 130th Annual Meeting Abstracts - Primary Payer Status Affects Mortality For Major Surgical Operations

that's, of course, AFTER controlling for age, gender, income, geographic region, operation, and 30 comorbid conditions, as most informed americans recalls

just the facts, folks

I do wish you understood what you posted. We might actually be able to talk then. Oh well, . . . moving on. :coffeepap
 
OK, I will admit health care is a failing market in my opinion. However, indoor plumbing I am sure has been reaching almost universal levels for some time now. You are literally arguing against free trade because of a fraction of a percent of Americans are doing poorly for reasons you cannot even prove.

I can take you places where it isn't there. Lived a year in such a place.

But no, I'm trying to get you to see something. You insist that one time purchases, that can be had in a number of varying ways, means we're not worse off today. That simply isn't the case, so I point to clear examples of people having these things you mention, but who are not doing well. It is to address only your contention that having these things means they are not worse off.
 
BTW, I can intorduce you to people who have those things, but not runnig water, or indoor toliets, or adequate health care, or in some cases, enough food. Foolishly mistakeing one thing for the other is your error. It is more than possible to have those things, and still be poor, still be worse off.

Poor choices?
 
Absolutely. A business environment is more than just about narrow dimensions of tax and regulatory policy. Access to skilled workers, comparative national advantages, competitive clusters, structural market conditions, etc., all are important. The U.S. is producing relatively fewer science/engineering graduates than its overseas competitors. U.S. educational attainment has flatlined even as it is growing in various OECD countries. In an increasingly knowledge-intensive global economy, such an outcome poses a significant threat to U.S. competitiveness. In addition, long-term, U.S. macroeconomic growth prospects, including domestic demand conditions, have worsened. For some companies, it makes more competitive sense to relocate parts of their operations abroad. Failure to do so could undermine their own comeptitiveness down the road. Barring fundamental reforms that address U.S. weaknesses and threats facing the U.S., including its erosion of competitiveness in some sectors, such stories could become more commonplace, especially as capital flows shift to more attractive economies (raising the cost of capital/eroding economic profits).

Now the question should be asked, why is our educational system so broken? Why are our tax laws hostile to businesses? Businesses are like electricity and water, seeking the path of least resistance. We are a capitalist nation, and yet we seek to control the very philosophy that has brought prosperity to more people is less time than any other approach in human history. Who denies that the American Way has done more (directly and indirectly) to bring prosperity to other countries, than anyone else?
 
Now the question should be asked, why is our educational system so broken?

Many reasons including but not limited to inefficient resource utilization, misaligned compensation/retention incentives, lack of focus, lack of a robust framework for assessing outcomes/intervening early when problems are emerging, etc. Factors beyond the schools also play a role e.g., today students spend fewer hours studying outside the classroom than they do in the classroom. In the past in the U.S. and in OECD countries where educational attainment is improving, students spend more time studying outside the classroom than in the classroom (sometimes by 2:1 or greater ratio).
 
"Why are our tax laws hostile to businesses?"

Our tax laws aren't hostile to businesses. We have the second lowest effective corporate tax rate in the industrialized world.
 
"Why are our tax laws hostile to businesses?"

Our tax laws aren't hostile to businesses. We have the second lowest effective corporate tax rate in the industrialized world.

And certainly lower personal income taxes of any major economy
 
Poor choices?

Not really. Just easier. I've been there and I know. The pennis I could save would never change anything. But, that sales person could find a way to swing this one time purchase. Not high quality, actually crap, and sometimes I could get a lump sum, that would be lost sooner or later, but the choices were slow, long term, and likely something would come up to blow it all to hell anyway. Not to mention, there are damn few role models to show you how. I was lucky, and had a lot of help. Most don't.
 
man, you just don't know, it's tough, i aint even got running water

can you hear me now?

LOL!

anyway, send me an email, gotta go, the cable man's installing this morning

choices? not really, it's just easier

the pennies i'd save can't change nothin...

hey, dude, it's all a matter of VALUES
 
Not really. Just easier. I've been there and I know. The pennis I could save would never change anything. But, that sales person could find a way to swing this one time purchase. Not high quality, actually crap, and sometimes I could get a lump sum, that would be lost sooner or later, but the choices were slow, long term, and likely something would come up to blow it all to hell anyway. Not to mention, there are damn few role models to show you how. I was lucky, and had a lot of help. Most don't.

I don't see where you rebut my poor choice arguement. You say that some have poor role models. I wouldn't disagree but that doesn't mean they didn't make a poor choice.
 
I can take you places where it isn't there. Lived a year in such a place.

But no, I'm trying to get you to see something. You insist that one time purchases, that can be had in a number of varying ways, means we're not worse off today. That simply isn't the case, so I point to clear examples of people having these things you mention, but who are not doing well. It is to address only your contention that having these things means they are not worse off.

So you think we should pay more money for the same things because.... why? A small minority of those in America in extreme poverty apparently choose discretionary items before tap water??
 
Boston Scientific Corp. said yesterday that it plans to eliminate 1,200 to 1,400 jobs worldwide during the next 2 1/2 years to free money for new investments, the Natick medical device maker’s second major round of cuts since last year.

Yesterday’s move, a day after Boston Scientific disclosed it was investing $150 million and hiring 1,000 people in China, raised fears that the company will gradually shift more work to foreign sites with less government oversight and lower costs than the United States.

Boston Scientific to lay off 1,200-plus - The Boston Globe

A large swath of the business community opposed the changes, arguing the legislation was too broad and had too many taxes. "This will make us one of the highest-taxed regions in the world, and that's going to have an impact on the appetite for people to invest in medical innovation," said Bill Hawkins, chief executive of Medtronic Inc., which makes medical devices. He said his company could cut at least 1,000 jobs to absorb a new 2.3% excise tax on medical-device makers.

Landmark Health Bill Goes to Obama's Desk - WSJ.com
 
I don't see where you rebut my poor choice arguement. You say that some have poor role models. I wouldn't disagree but that doesn't mean they didn't make a poor choice.

I didn't think that was the only thing I said. I think I said in some cases there really isn't a good choice, and other times it really isn't about choice, and then added the role model as part of it all. I could have mentioned the entire study on the pyschology of the poor as well, but I didn't want to go looking for links. ;)
 
So you think we should pay more money for the same things because.... why? A small minority of those in America in extreme poverty apparently choose discretionary items before tap water??

No, because it is better for the whole. We all benefit from having people in town who own and are invest in the community. It's not a hard concept to grasp, so I'm not sure why you're going off so far afield.
 
Boston Scientific Corp. said yesterday that it plans to eliminate 1,200 to 1,400 jobs worldwide during the next 2 1/2 years to free money for new investments, the Natick medical device maker’s second major round of cuts since last year.

Yesterday’s move, a day after Boston Scientific disclosed it was investing $150 million and hiring 1,000 people in China, raised fears that the company will gradually shift more work to foreign sites with less government oversight and lower costs than the United States.

Boston Scientific to lay off 1,200-plus - The Boston Globe

A large swath of the business community opposed the changes, arguing the legislation was too broad and had too many taxes. "This will make us one of the highest-taxed regions in the world, and that's going to have an impact on the appetite for people to invest in medical innovation," said Bill Hawkins, chief executive of Medtronic Inc., which makes medical devices. He said his company could cut at least 1,000 jobs to absorb a new 2.3% excise tax on medical-device makers.

Landmark Health Bill Goes to Obama's Desk - WSJ.com

Agan, competitng with countries that have real low wages and UHC. I think I see a pattern, and it really isn't all about taxes.
 
it's better for the whole for all of us to be paying more money for the same things?

If it can bring us closer to full employment, yes. Goods are only cheaper in the retail sense right now. When the full cost of society picking up the tab for living expenses and health care for displaced workers is factored in, the "cheaper" goods are much more expensive than the retail price.
 
We had lots of good oilfield jobs. What happened to them?

Same place the refineries went. cheaper to operate out of country. No regs, they can pollute, get phillipino's and african nationals to work for dirty in the middle east. But, I thought we got most of our oil from Canada?
 
Same place the refineries went. cheaper to operate out of country. No regs, they can pollute, get phillipino's and african nationals to work for dirty in the middle east. But, I thought we got most of our oil from Canada?

Most oil in the us comes from the us and is refined in the us. Canada perhaps expound 10% of the oil thus uses. In fact the us also exports more refined oil then it imports.imo
 
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How much social security and medicare is GE having to match in China, ya think?

How much of the crap GE makes do they sell in China? Do they save their money in China? Nope, so who insures their savings or bails out their banks when they decide to f up?

Who builds the roads, rails, harbors, etc, so GE can truck/ship their crap and sell their crap in the USA?

Who allows them to operate out of the USA without paying taxes because the conservo's claim by giving tax breaks the create outsources jobs?

Who pays for the protection of the police and military, so holigans, terrorist, etc. allow to feel and be secured inside our borders?

Poor GE, they have to pay for their workers social security and medicare? Why don't you feel sorry for the tax payers that goes to work each day and pays his taxes, so GE can get all the above, so they can ship work and profits outside america?

The tea pitiful party has to quick feeling sorry for the corps and big oil.
 
When the full cost of society picking up the tab for living expenses and health care for displaced workers is factored in

all the more need for immediate fundamental reform

when the full cost is felt, you can see immediately that medicare and medicaid and social security (as well as state and federal pensions) are simply going to disappear by the time our next generation comes to count on em

we are 61.6 trillion dollars underwater and sinking a fast 5.3T further each year

there's simply not enough tax revenue conceivable---even in michael moore's most mendacious imaginings---to make em right

U.S. funding for future promises lags by trillions - USATODAY.com

it is what it is, like physics

that is, there's no avoiding

sorry
 
all the more need for immediate fundamental reform

when the full cost is felt, you can see immediately that medicare and medicaid and social security (as well as state and federal pensions) are simply going to disappear by the time our next generation comes to count on em

we are 61.6 trillion dollars underwater and sinking a fast 5.3T further each year

there's simply not enough tax revenue conceivable---even in michael moore's most mendacious imaginings---to make em right

U.S. funding for future promises lags by trillions - USATODAY.com

it is what it is, like physics

that is, there's no avoiding

sorry

Also, an out of work middle class does not pay income taxes, increasing the debt.
This means those with income will have to pay more even with significant spending cuts.
 
This means those with income will have to pay more even with significant spending cuts.

not this year, not next year, not in this country

obama CAVED

enjoy your fantasies
 
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