Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 76

Councilman · Jul 26, 2011

This is what happens in a tolerant, Socialist/Liberal Country that has run amuck and become wimps.

No crime screams slow painful death like terrorism such as this.

I say hang the bastard in a town square and let his toes just touch the ground.

Is that being vengeful? You damn bet it is. I hate the Islamic Cults but you have to admit that painful punishment keeps crime down.

In California we have a meaningless death penalty that when it is used is painless. I have been under general anesthesia more times than I can count and I assure you there is no pain other than a little pin prick.

The world is sometimes too nice all around.

As a Christian I should not feel as I do about this because I'm have a pretty good idea that this fanatic maniac will never be forgiven for this much sin.

220px-Anders_Behring_Breivik_in_diving_suit_with_gun_(self_portrait).jpg

Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 76 - FoxNews.com
Friday's twin attacks in Norway that killed 76 people have sparked growing outcry at the country's penal code, under which even the man now accused in the mass killings would face a maximum penalty of only 21 years in prison if convicted.

If found guilty in the massacre and given that maximum sentence, Anders Behrin Breivik, 32, would serve roughly 100 days in prison per killing.

apdst · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

21 year max????????? :lamo

This cat knew he wasn't getting the death penalty. damn!

SmokeAndMirrors · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

Part of the reason most developed nations have a lower homicide rate than we do is because they don't execute people. Their governments don't relish in killing, therefore their people don't practice it as frequently. Sorry if that offends your bloodlust.

That said, I've always thought the 21-year max sentence was insane. There are some criminals that can never be made safe for society. And they should never be released. Releasing sociopaths, mass-murderers, joy killers, child molesters, and rapists just invites them to re-offend. They can't be rehabilitated. Releasing them is insane. I hope Norway will reconsider this policy.

atrasicarius · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

In my opinion, the death penalty should serve the same purpose as life in prison: Keeping these people out of society forever. I would give them a choice which one they want. Vengeance doesn't enter into it. Also, the most humane execution is just the firing squad. It's simple, it's quick, it's hard to screw up, and it doesn't cost millions.

Councilman · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

MistressNomad said:
Part of the reason most developed nations have a lower homicide rate than we do is because they don't execute people. Their governments don't relish in killing, therefore their people don't practice it as frequently. Sorry if that offends your bloodlust.

I am sorry but that makes no sense what ever.

I don't have a blood lust I have a strong desire to make sure the guilty get what they have earned

BDBoop · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

Gee, it's good to hear from Beck again.

SHERMAN OAKS, Calif., July 26 (UPI) -- Conservative U.S. broadcaster Glenn Beck said the teenagers massacred at a Norwegian Labor Party youth camp reminded him of the infamous Hitler Youth.

"There was a shooting at a political camp, which sounds a little like, you know, the Hitler Youth," Beck said in the first minute of his syndicated radio broadcast Monday. "I mean, who does a camp for kids that's all about politics? Disturbing."

Read more: Beck likens Norway victims to Hitler Youth - UPI.com

Response from Norwegian representative:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/glenn-b...-hitler-youth-20110726-1hxwn.html?from=smh_sb

"Young political activists have gathered at Utoya for over 60 years to learn about and be part of democracy, the very opposite of what the Hitler Youth was about," Torbjorn Eriksen told London's Daily Telegraph.
"Glenn Beck's comments are ignorant, incorrect and extremely hurtful."
Another Labour member and political scientist, Frank Aarebrot, told Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet it was "just frightening that there are people who are doing such terrible ... stories like this".
The worst thing is that some would see Beck's comments as objective reporting, he said, labelling Beck a "vulgar propagandist".
Tea Party supporters in the United States have hosted their own political youth camps, the Telegraph reported.

Lord Tammerlain · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

If he is found likely to reoffend he can and would be held is prison far longer. Canada has a similar law on the books

Wiseone · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

apdst said:
21 year max????????? :lamo

This cat knew he wasn't getting the death penalty. damn!

Boy's Birthday Party Turned Into Massacre by Estranged Husband - ABC News

If only there was a dealth penalty in places like Texas these kinda things wouldn't happen. Or maybe you've just completly over simplified an extremely complex issue.

SmokeAndMirrors · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

Councilman said:
I am sorry but that makes no sense what ever.

I don't have a blood lust I have a strong desire to make sure the guilty get what they have earned

My point is that you are wrong that such punishments keep crime down. The states that have a death penalty actually have, on average, the highest rates of violent crime and homocide.

They have a governmental culture of killing. Therefore, the people also have a culture of killing. Your blind vengence is part of the reason for that.

Some of the more extreme criminals do in fact want to be killed. And when you add up the average cost of appeals, the execution itself, etc, it's far more expensive that sticking them in jail forever.

There is simply no advantage to it. And it's the mark of an uncivilized and erroneous sense of justice.

PeteEU · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

Councilman said:
This is what happens in a tolerant, Socialist/Liberal Country that has run amuck and become wimps.

No crime screams slow painful death like terrorism such as this.

I say hang the bastard in a town square and let his toes just touch the ground.

Is that being vengeful? You damn bet it is. I hate the Islamic Cults but you have to admit that painful punishment keeps crime down.

In California we have a meaningless death penalty that when it is used is painless. I have been under general anesthesia more times than I can count and I assure you there is no pain other than a little pin prick.

The world is sometimes too nice all around.

As a Christian I should not feel as I do about this because I'm have a pretty good idea that this fanatic maniac will never be forgiven for this much sin.

For the love of god....the miss information is ripe over on the other side of the pond.

Maximum sentence is 21 years yes.

However there is Forvaring. This is a statute that states, if the criminal is a threat to society after his sentence then he/she can be put in "forvaring" (jail type scenario) form 10 to 21 years and then after that it can be extended every 5 years. This means he can be held for life.

Kal'Stang · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

MistressNomad said:
My point is that you are wrong that such punishments keep crime down. The states that have a death penalty actually have, on average, the highest rates of violent crime and homocide.

They have a governmental culture of killing. Therefore, the people also have a culture of killing. Your blind vengence is part of the reason for that.

Some of the more extreme criminals do in fact want to be killed. And when you add up the average cost of appeals, the execution itself, etc, it's far more expensive that sticking them in jail forever.

There is simply no advantage to it. And it's the mark of an uncivilized and erroneous sense of justice.

Got any stats to show this to be true?

Kal'Stang · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

PeteEU said:
For the love of god....the miss information is ripe over on the other side of the pond.

Maximum sentence is 21 years yes.

However there is Forvaring. This is a statute that states, if the criminal is a threat to society after his sentence then he/she can be put in "forvaring" (jail type scenario) form 10 to 21 years and then after that it can be extended every 5 years. This means he can be held for life.

Forvaring...thats a new word to me. Thanks Pete.

SmokeAndMirrors · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

Kal'Stang said:
Got any stats to show this to be true?

Yup.

The death penalty does not deter, and homocide rates are higher in death penalty states:

ABSENCE OF EXECUTIONS - A special report. - States With No Death Penalty Share Lower Homicide Rates - Special Report - NYTimes.com
Deterrence: States Without the Death Penalty Have Had Consistently Lower Murder Rates | Death Penalty Information Center
Death Penalty Does Not Deter Murder, According to New Study

The death penalty is more expensive:

The death penalty: Saving lives and money | The Economist
Death penalty cases more expensive than lifetime imprisonment, but local CDA says cost never a consideration | Lubbock Online | Lubbock Avalanche-Journal

Kal'Stang · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

According to the following site the highest firearms death rate starts out in Washington DC, which has no DP. The next highest is in Alaska, which also has no DP. The next highest is Louisiana which does have the DP. Texas which is known for its liberal use of the death penalty is ranked 26.

On the flip side Hawaii is ranked 51, has no DP. Rank 50 is held by Massachusettes which still has the DP on the law books but it has been ruled unconstitutional. Rank 49 is held by Conneticut which still has the DP.

So not sure where you're getting your correlation from.

Firearms Death rate per 100,000

Capitol Punishment in the US ~ your friendly neighborhood wiki link

Edit: was writing and posting this before I saw your last post...am looking at it.

SmokeAndMirrors · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

Kal'Stang said:
According to the following site the highest firearms death rate starts out in Washington DC, which has no DP. The next highest is in Alaska, which also has no DP. The next highest is Louisiana which does have the DP. Texas which is known for its liberal use of the death penalty is ranked 26.

On the flip side Hawaii is ranked 51, has no DP. Rank 50 is held by Massachusettes which still has the DP on the law books but it has been ruled unconstitutional. Rank 49 is held by Conneticut which still has the DP.

So not sure where you're getting your correlation from.

Firearms Death rate per 100,000

Capitol Punishment in the US ~ your friendly neighborhood wiki link

Edit: was writing and posting this before I saw your last post...am looking at it.

The correlation is general - not perfect. And obviously other factors may change the statistics in a given state. However, when you average it out, death penalty states do indeed have higher homicide rates on average.

atrasicarius · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

MistressNomad said:
The correlation is general - not perfect. And obviously other factors may change the statistics in a given state. However, when you average it out, death penalty states do indeed have higher homicide rates on average.

I would say this is a case of correlation does not equal causation. However, it does kind of blow the idea that the DP reduces crime out of the water.

SmokeAndMirrors · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

atrasicarius said:
I would say this is a case of correlation does not equal causation. However, it does kind of blow the idea that the DP reduces crime out of the water.

Quite possibly. I mean, having lived in DC it is plain as day to me why their homicide rate is so high, with or without the death penalty. I have never been anywhere in the developed world that had greater social inequality. The poorest people I have ever seen in the developed world were in Washington DC. I think it's probably as simple as that.

However, I have read about spikes in crime following executions. I will see if I can re-find that...

Councilman · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

MistressNomad said:
My point is that you are wrong that such punishments keep crime down. The states that have a death penalty actually have, on average, the highest rates of violent crime and homocide.

They have a governmental culture of killing. Therefore, the people also have a culture of killing. Your blind vengeance is part of the reason for that.

Some of the more extreme criminals do in fact want to be killed. And when you add up the average cost of appeals, the execution itself, etc, it's far more expensive that sticking them in jail forever.

There is simply no advantage to it. And it's the mark of an uncivilized and erroneous sense of justice.

My point is we don't have punishment that matches the crimes. Putting a mass murderer to sleep with an injection is no deterrent. If I have blind vengeance you have total blindness to reality and what I said. I don't favor namby pamby wimpy injections because they don't work and it takes too long to get that point because Liberals don't give a damn reality they want to be touchy feely.

We have more crime because of the open society we have an almost total lack of morals by some along with people screaming about tolerance when we should be saying enough is enough.

SmokeAndMirrors · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

Councilman said:
My point is we don't have punishment that matches the crimes. Putting a mass murderer to sleep with an injection is no deterrent. If I have blind vengeance you have total blindness to reality and what I said. I don't favor namby pamby wimpy injections because they don't work and it takes too long to get that point because Liberals don't give a damn reality they want to be touchy feely.

We have more crime because of the open society we have an almost total lack of morals by some along with people screaming about tolerance when we should be saying enough is enough.

Oh really? Then why is it crime in general is lower in more progressive socities? Why is that countries that use painful or humilitating punishments have such tremendously high crime?

In terms of morals, the developed world is doing better than any other socieites ever have at any other point in history. Your argument is simply not based in reality.

1Perry · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

MistressNomad said:
My point is that you are wrong that such punishments keep crime down. The states that have a death penalty actually have, on average, the highest rates of violent crime and homocide.

HIghly misleading. First off, I am against the death penalty but there is only one reason why we should abolish it. Nobody has a right to take the life of another that isn't threatening your life.

The numbers you reference include states with higher homicide rates that while technically still has the death penalty on the books, they never use it. As a better example. Texas is most likely the best example for a state that uses it. It's homicide rate is 5.9. Michigan doesn't have the death penalty and it's rate is 6.7. California has it but doesn't use it, it's rate of 6.2 is included in the death penalty column.

They have a governmental culture of killing. Therefore, the people also have a culture of killing. Your blind vengence is part of the reason for that.

How does this explain D.C.'s rate of 30? (far and away the highest in the country)

{edit} I see where you try and pass this off as inequality but they are killing each other. How does it make sense to kill those in the same boat as yourself?

Wiseone · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

I feel like the 8th amendment should be brought up at least to refresh everyone's memory of it.

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

SmokeAndMirrors · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

1Perry said:
HIghly misleading. First off, I am against the death penalty but there is only one reason why we should abolish it. Nobody has a right to take the life of another that isn't threatening your life.

The numbers you reference include states with higher homicide rates that while technically still has the death penalty on the books, they never use it. As a better example. Texas is most likely the best example for a state that uses it. It's homicide rate is 5.9. Michigan doesn't have the death penalty and it's rate is 6.7. California has it but doesn't use it, it's rate of 6.2 is included in the death penalty column.

How does this explain D.C.'s rate of 30? (far and away the highest in the country)

{edit} I see where you try and pass this off as inequality but they are killing each other. How does it make sense to kill those in the same boat as yourself?

How am I trying to pass anything off? I'm simply admitting that there are mutiple factors contributing to crime rates. In the case of DC, I think the fact that I have never seen more desolate poverty in any other developed place on earth may be a big reason why it's so high there, despite not having a death penalty. I don't really understand what on earth you're talking about by "kill those in the same boat as yourself." Do you mean why is there so much homicide in DC? Well, a horrendously bad drug culture is a good place to start...

I'd agree with you that it really is as simple as the fact that we don't have to right to kill people. But unfortunately that's an ethical argument which a lot of people simply are unable to understand. So I'm simply making the case that there are plenty of other great reasons to abolish the death penalty to go along with it.

At worst, then, it is clear that no matter how you slice it it doesn't deter crime.

1Perry · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

MistressNomad said:
How am I trying to pass anything off? I'm simply admitting that there are mutiple factors contributing to crime rates. In the case of DC, I think the fact that I have never seen more desolate poverty in any other developed place on earth may be a big reason why it's so high there, despite not having a death penalty. I don't really understand what on earth you're talking about by "kill those in the same boat as yourself." Do you mean why is there so much homicide in DC? Well, a horrendously bad drug culture is a good place to start...

Too bad nobody ever addresses this.

I'd agree with you that it really is as simple as the fact that we don't have to right to kill people. But unfortunately that's an ethical argument which a lot of people simply are unable to understand. So I'm simply making the case that there are plenty of other great reasons to abolish the death penalty to go along with it.

I don't think you can make any other arguement hold water as I showed with your example. It was easy to dismiss. Don't be afraid of using the ethical arguement.

At worst, then, it is clear that no matter how you slice it it doesn't deter crime.

I certianly don't believe it's a major deterrant. There may be some small deterrant but it doesn't justify taking another life.

jamesrage · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

Councilman said:
This is what happens in a tolerant, Socialist/Liberal Country that has run amuck and become wimps.

No crime screams slow painful death like terrorism such as this.

I say hang the bastard in a town square and let his toes just touch the ground.

Is that being vengeful? You damn bet it is. I hate the Islamic Cults but you have to admit that painful punishment keeps crime down.

In California we have a meaningless death penalty that when it is used is painless. I have been under general anesthesia more times than I can count and I assure you there is no pain other than a little pin prick.

The world is sometimes too nice all around.

As a Christian I should not feel as I do about this because I'm have a pretty good idea that this fanatic maniac will never be forgiven for this much sin.

Leave it to Eurotrash to be criminal sympathizers. A 21 year max and no death penalty. Has it ever occur them them that the only people who would find a 21 year sentence worth it are murderers and mass murderers?

jamesrage · Jul 26, 2011

Re: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 7

MistressNomad said:
My point is that you are wrong that such punishments keep crime down. The states that have a death penalty actually have, on average, the highest rates of violent crime and homocide.

The point of the death penalty is to serve as the ultimate punishment a criminal can receive. The reason the death penalty does not act as a deterrent is because of the fact it takes 10-20 years to execute someone.Scumbag sympathizers do not give two ****s about the victims in their minds its not guilty until proven innocent. To them its innocents even after proven guilty.

If they immediately executed those who received the death penalty it would serve as a deterrent. Do you think prison would serve as a deterrent if it took 10-20 years after a guilty conviction before they finally went to prison?

They have a governmental culture of killing. Therefore, the people also have a culture of killing. Your blind vengence is part of the reason for that.

That is just scumbag sympathizer nonsense.

Some of the more extreme criminals do in fact want to be killed. And when you add up the average cost of appeals, the execution itself, etc, it's far more expensive that sticking them in jail forever.

Lets see scumbag sympathizers impose of these costly provisions and now you want use the cost as an issue?
Perhaps there should ways to make appeals less costly and limit the number of appeals based on the strength of the evidence.

There is simply no advantage to it. And it's the mark of an uncivilized and erroneous sense of justice.

There are plenty reasons to execute scumbags who are convicted of murder.

1.Because he or she murdered a innocent person.I know scumbag sympathizers do not give a **** about the victims of these monsters, but normal people do and this is one of the reasons why we punish criminals and why the death penalty exists.

2.With the murderer dead the victim's loved ones are not paying to keep the victim's murderer alive.They are not paying for the murderer's medical bills, food or life time security to keep him alive safe and healthy.

3.A dead murderer is someone who can not harm or murder other people.

4. A dead murderer can not be pardoned or released for oil or to idiotic reasons like the UK did with the Lockerbie bomber.

5. A dead murderer can not give tv interviews.

5.A dead murderer has zero chance of escaping.