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Explosions In Norway

You people amaze me. Trying to say this guy is "right wing" or "Christian" is simply stupid. Whether left or right, once a person steps this deep into extremism, they are an extremist, nothing less, nothing more.

I have seen some even say this killer has no mental issues. Let's run a simple test. People who are not ****ed up in the head don't kill nearly a hundred people. Is it an excuse for what he did? Of course not.

I see the police being criticized as well. The country has 40 murders a year. I doubt they have mass murders annually. I also doubt that the entire police force is involved in those 40 murders. The police more than likely had no idea of what to do or how to start doing it.

Seriously people, this is a tragedy brought on by what looks to be a single deranged man. Sure, in the mind of the murderer this was politically motivated, but those of us who are a tad more sane need not grab that morsel and start using it to bash each over the head with ideology, lest we do end up that insane.

I get your point, but I don't buy the whole "they must be deranged or crazy". Most of the times, these people are very rational. The problem is that they are sociopaths, lacking empathy and compassion. That condition is, IMO, far more common than most people realize

We have people who made millions while destroying the economy, which threw millions out of work and into poverty. Some have lost their lives and many have even lost their lives. Thousands die every year from lack of health care, and a huge segment of the population is just fine with that.

The "mental issue" this man has is not uncommon; He merely took it to the extreme.
 
We have people who made millions while destroying the economy, which threw millions out of work and into poverty.

And then were rewarded by the government with even more money. Maybe Norway can give this guy a medal.
 
And then were rewarded by the government with even more money. Maybe Norway can give this guy a medal.

Exactly!! We have a society that rewards sociopathy. The only mistake this guy made was using violence instead of finance.

And for those who are going to jump to conclusions, and accuse me of justifying what this guy did, I have one response:

It's wrong to use any means, violent or not, to kill people
 
I get your point, but I don't buy the whole "they must be deranged or crazy". Most of the times, these people are very rational. The problem is that they are sociopaths, lacking empathy and compassion. That condition is, IMO, far more common than most people realize

We have people who made millions while destroying the economy, which threw millions out of work and into poverty. Some have lost their lives and many have even lost their lives. Thousands die every year from lack of health care, and a huge segment of the population is just fine with that.

The "mental issue" this man has is not uncommon; He merely took it to the extreme.

A man was driving and suddenly the right front wheel fell off. The driver retrieved the wheel and as he was trying to figure out what to do he noticed a fence, with a sign proclaiming the place was for those with mental issues.

A man on the other side of the fence walked up to the driver and told the driver that if it was him, he would remove one lug nut from the other three wheels, put the offending wheel back on, and get to a place to buy more lug nuts.

The driver was impressed and tole the patient that the idea was brilliant and then asked since he was so smart why was he in that place.

The patient replied, "Hell Mister, I'm just crazy, I'm not stupid."
 
A man was driving and suddenly the right front wheel fell off. The driver retrieved the wheel and as he was trying to figure out what to do he noticed a fence, with a sign proclaiming the place was for those with mental issues.

A man on the other side of the fence walked up to the driver and told the driver that if it was him, he would remove one lug nut from the other three wheels, put the offending wheel back on, and get to a place to buy more lug nuts.

The driver was impressed and tole the patient that the idea was brilliant and then asked since he was so smart why was he in that place.

The patient replied, "Hell Mister, I'm just crazy, I'm not stupid."

Knowing what to do in that situation does not mean the man inside the fence is not psychotic. He may be hearing voices, etc. Even psychotics can be rational about most things. So far, there is no evidence of psychosis in this mad bomber; just violent sociopathy

I think we're arguing past each other a bit, due to your use of the words "deranged" and "crazy" which are poorly defined words commonly used to describe people who's thinking is much different (and scarier) than ours. I prefer terms like "mentally ill", "emotionally disordered", "sociopath", "psychotic" etc which are more clearly defined.
 
Knowing what to do in that situation does not mean the man inside the fence is not psychotic. He may be hearing voices, etc. Even psychotics can be rational about most things. So far, there is no evidence of psychosis in this mad bomber; just violent sociopathy

I think we're arguing past each other a bit, due to your use of the words "deranged" and "crazy" which are poorly defined words commonly used to describe people who's thinking is much different (and scarier) than ours. I prefer terms like "mentally ill", "emotionally disordered", "sociopath", "psychotic" etc which are more clearly defined.

You will discover that I tend to avoid arguing semantics because it detracts from the conversation. The actions taken by this man are clearly outside the norm and solidly in the realm of extremism. Whether or not the man had drool running down his chin , he has a head full of bad wiring, or he would not have taken it to such extremes.

Having said that, I do not feel it is a valid defense tactic.
 
You will discover that I tend to avoid arguing semantics because it detracts from the conversation. The actions taken by this man are clearly outside the norm and solidly in the realm of extremism. Whether or not the man had drool running down his chin , he has a head full of bad wiring, or he would not have taken it to such extremes.

Having said that, I do not feel it is a valid defense tactic.

I understand. Clearly, there is something wrong with this man, and it is profoundly wrong (and I think this is your main point). He is missing that which most of us consider necessary to be human. It's just that, having known people who have struggled with mental illnesses, I take issue when people like this monster are lumped in with those I've known who, statistically, are far less likely to engage in violent behavior. The mentally ill have enough to deal with without adding to the stigma that comes with mental illness.
 
He is a terrorist and calling him anything else than that is disrespectful to his victims and their families.
 
He is a terrorist and calling him anything else than that is disrespectful to his victims and their families.

At this point, I agree. He has performed terrorist acts against innocent people who were not engaged in any action threatening or damaging to him. He may be mentally ill, he may have a serious personality disorder, or he may be a rational extremist... or perhaps a combination of those things. Or perhaps something else entirely. Thus far I haven't read any conclusions drawn by those who have examined or interrogated him, so neither I, nor anyone on this forum can be bandying about psychiatric or psychological analyses of him with any accuracy. All we do know is what he did, in the barest outlines. Why don't we leave the speculation as to whether he's more akin to Ted Kaczinsky, Timothy McVeigh or Mohammed Atta until some people who have analysed the guy have drawn some conclusions.
 
It's crazy that he was able to walk around the island for 90 minutes shooting people.
 
LOL you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

1). The kids went there because they are politically active in the Labour Party youth wing.
2). It was the kids that wanted to go, not the parents sending them.

ah the brainwashing had already taken place

thanks.
 
Exactly!! We have a society that rewards sociopathy. The only mistake this guy made was using violence instead of finance.

And for those who are going to jump to conclusions, and accuse me of justifying what this guy did, I have one response:

It's wrong to use any means, violent or not, to kill people

so if a policeman or armed civilian had been able to shoot this scum bag early in his attack that would have been wrong?
 
This guy could have had a brilliant career as a political strategist for the Tea Party or a FOXNews videographer. Check out his work.

I seem to recall the Knights Templar were an honorable bunch. There is no honor in what this whacko did. How obscene to invoke them.
 
so if a policeman or armed civilian had been able to shoot this scum bag early in his attack that would have been wrong?

I thought much the same thing. It would have been great in this instance if somebody had a gun and took out this jerk really early on. I don't think any rational person would prefer scores of innocent people dead rather than this one right wing extremist.

But lets then think through the implications of that for a moment. Yesterday in Texas somebody killed five innocent people at a roller skating rink because of a family dispute. Its getting very little media play as its just another mass gun killing and we all know where those stories end up anyways.

Do we want to live in society where the alternative to this sort of thing is everybody walks around armed to the teeth?

I am sure some here will answer loudly and proudly HELL YES. Is there not some other alternative? But think about it......... and then respond.
 
so if a policeman or armed civilian had been able to shoot this scum bag early in his attack that would have been wrong?

I think sangha is wrong 99% of the time but once again, you have to take the entire context of the complete discussion in and not just one post. His was a rare valid reply.
 
I think sangha is wrong 99% of the time but once again, you have to take the entire context of the complete discussion in and not just one post. His was a rare valid reply.

opinion noted, not shared

there is nothing wrong with shooting people if the right people get shot
 
So you would accept a society where everyone walks around armed to the teeth?

Nope, just the responsible people who know how to properly use weapons.
 
opinion noted, not shared

there is nothing wrong with shooting people if the right people get shot

Which has nothing to do with what was being discussed. He was saying that his arguement was not an excuse for what this guy did.
 
I thought much the same thing. It would have been great in this instance if somebody had a gun and took out this jerk really early on. I don't think any rational person would prefer scores of innocent people dead rather than this one right wing extremist.

But lets then think through the implications of that for a moment. Yesterday in Texas somebody killed five innocent people at a roller skating rink because of a family dispute. Its getting very little media play as its just another mass gun killing and we all know where those stories end up anyways.

If someone else would have had a piece and had been ready to throw down, he might have only killed 2 people, or three.

Do we want to live in society where the alternative to this sort of thing is everybody walks around armed to the teeth?

How did disarming the populace workout in Norway?

I am sure some here will answer loudly and proudly HELL YES. Is there not some other alternative? But think about it......... and then respond.

Sure it is: more frequent use of the death penalty. Tougher prisons. Prisoners have far too many rights in this country. Prison is a cakewalk. Far too few prisoners die in prison. There should be more prison deaths from being over-worked.
 
So you would accept a society where everyone walks around armed to the teeth?

I am a native Texan. I grew up with guns in every corner in the house, a shotgun and deer rifle in the gunrack of my truck and a S&W .38 in the glove compartment. And I don't seem to remember nearly as many attrocities back then as I am seeing now.

They just legalized concealed carry here in WI. If I don't get grandfathered in, because I am a native Texan and Texans are instinctively proficient with firearms, I will have to take their class before being licensed to carry. So, thinking my Texas ancestry wouldn't really impress them, I signed up for the class. :mrgreen:

If I had it my way, guns would have never been invented to begin with. But it is what it is and you can't get toothpaste back into the tube. If these gangsta, punk-ass scum are gonna pack, so am I. I have a very large hand so that means I get to pack a very large pistol. Happy days are here again!

Lady: Sir, that is a very big gun you carry what kind is it?
Texan: It's a .45 ma'am.
Lady: Why do you feel the need to carry a .45?
Texan: Because they don't make a .46.

:shoot
 
I am a native Texan. I grew up with guns in every corner in the house, a shotgun and deer rifle in the gunrack of my truck and a S&W .38 in the glove compartment. And I don't seem to remember nearly as many attrocities back then as I am seeing now.

They just legalized concealed carry here in WI. If I don't get grandfathered in, because I am a native Texan and Texans are instinctively proficient with firearms, I will have to take their class before being licensed to carry. So, thinking my Texas ancestry wouldn't really impress them, I signed up for the class. :mrgreen:

If I had it my way, guns would have never been invented to begin with. But it is what it is and you can't get toothpaste back into the tube. If these gangsta, punk-ass scum are gonna pack, so am I. I have a very large hand so that means I get to pack a very large pistol. Happy days are here again!

Lady: Sir, that is a very big gun you carry what kind is it?
Texan: It's a .45 ma'am.
Lady: Why do you feel the need to carry a .45?
Texan: Because they don't make a .46.

:shoot

I would be happy to get rid of every gun in the world, if folks like Haymarket could promise that the government could totally remove all the scumbags from the public and insure that they would never be a threat to society, again.
 
I am a native Texan. I grew up with guns in every corner in the house, a shotgun and deer rifle in the gunrack of my truck and a S&W .38 in the glove compartment. And I don't seem to remember nearly as many attrocities back then as I am seeing now.

They just legalized concealed carry here in WI. If I don't get grandfathered in, because I am a native Texan and Texans are instinctively proficient with firearms, I will have to take their class before being licensed to carry. So, thinking my Texas ancestry wouldn't really impress them, I signed up for the class. :mrgreen:

If I had it my way, guns would have never been invented to begin with. But it is what it is and you can't get toothpaste back into the tube. If these gangsta, punk-ass scum are gonna pack, so am I. I have a very large hand so that means I get to pack a very large pistol. Happy days are here again!

Lady: Sir, that is a very big gun you carry what kind is it?
Texan: It's a .45 ma'am.
Lady: Why do you feel the need to carry a .45?
Texan: Because they don't make a .46.

:shoot

the basis of that story involves a famous British professional hunter in East Africa and India who tracked maneaters and cleared out very dangerous tigers, leopards, etc and Hippos (hippos are extremely dangerous to those in small boats). It might have been Colonel Corbett but he was apparently asked why he carried a 600 NITRO and he said it was because he (at the time) no one made a 700 Nitro.

It shot a 900 Grain bullet!! and often weighed 15 pounds. it was almost too powerful for even regular elephant hunting but nothing stopped a charging beast like a 600 Nitro
 
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