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Explosions In Norway

TurtleDude said:
I have a feeling that lots of those poor children had no clue what they are or were or were going to be.

Just because their parents sent them to some young socialists camp
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I have no idea if their parents sent them, or they went themselves. Personally and generally, living in Europe, parents don't encourage political idealogies on their children. I don't know if they would stay "lefties" or change later on.

It doesn't matter.

What matters is that this murderer killed these children, because he thought they were left wing.

Both left and right wing extremes have killed people, there is no moral superiortiy.
 
New info right here (Norway attacks suspect admits responsibility - Europe - Al Jazeera English).

The man suspected of a gun and bomb attack in Norway has called his deeds atrocious yet necessary, his defence lawyer said.

"He has said that he believed the actions were atrocious, but that in his head they were necessary," defence lawyer Geir Lippestad told TV2 news on Saturday.

Lippestad said his client had said he was willing to explain himself in a court hearing on Monday. The court will decide at the hearing whether to keep the suspect in detention pending trial.

Earlier on Saturday, officials in Norway had charged a 32-year-old Norwegian man with killing at least 92 people in a gun and bomb attack described as the worst act of violence in the country since World War II.

Police confirmed to Al Jazeera on Saturday that the suspect had been named as Anders Behring Breivik.

Breivik, who confessed to firing weapons during questioning on Saturday, belonged to right-wing political groups. But officials said they are not jumping to conclusions about his motives.

Reports suggest he belonged to an anti-immigration party, wrote blogs attacking multi-culturalism and was a member of a neo-Nazi online forum.
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How the hell can gunning down a bunch of children be necessary? :(
 
Kali said:
How the hell can gunning down a bunch of children be necessary? :(
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He's apparently a Neo-Nazi. What more can you say....
 
PeteEU said:
What the **** are you babbling about? I posted information from AP and you attacked me over the informaiton and once I called you on your attack, you refuse to apologize?

YOU made a mistake by dismissing the comment as something I made up by claiming I am trying to deflect attention away from the non existent Muslim link to the attack...

Just admit you got caught with your pants down...
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I believe that the vernacular term is "pwned", they don't like it up 'em Captain Mainwaring.
 
PeteEU said:
Okay I have read back almost 3 years of his rantings.

He sounds like quite a few of the right wingers on these boards. Does this sound familiar?



Islam has historically killed 300 million people
Communism has historically killed 100 million people
Nazism has historically killed 6-20 million people.

Kinda chilling.

He is against multiculturalism, dislikes the UN as he sees them as forcing multiculturalism on countries with its refugee policies. He blames Muslims and left wingers for everything and is a cultural conservative. He also rambles on how weak the "conservative" parties have become in Norway (including the party he was a member off) and Europe and that if they implemented the strict cultural conservative views he had, then people would flock to them.

He believes his church is weak (he is a protestant, baptised at 15 by his own choice) and wants "back to basics".. he even hints on wanting Norway to become Roman Catholic again...

He also mentions his admiration of Lou Dobbs for standing up to the political correct mass media over illegal immigration in the US.

Also he left the party because he thought they were too political correct and weak on cultural and immigration policies... which is impressive considering their official policies.

There is much more but would take a lot of time to jot down.
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Remember, RoP is still out there somewhere. :afraid:
 
apdst said:
The facts? Communism and Facism are both based on socialism. Before Musssolini and Hitler were facists, they were socialists.

Another fact? This wasn't, "attacking the left". It was most probably an attack on the government and there isn't much Right Wing government in Norway. Even the, "Right", is Leftist, by American standards.
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Fact, Communism and Socialism are ideologies based upon class struggle NOT nationalist or racial struggle.
 
TurtleDude said:
I have a feeling that lots of those poor children had no clue what they are or were or were going to be.

Just because their parents sent them to some young socialists camp
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LOL you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

1). The kids went there because they are politically active in the Labour Party youth wing.
2). It was the kids that wanted to go, not the parents sending them.
 
Information that we now know about this terrorist.

1) He is a white man, native Norwegian.
2) He calls himself a Christian, and from his writings we can throw him on the radical evangelical side of Christianity. He wants to go "back to basics" on the religious front.
3) He calls himself a cultural conservative. This is based on his online writings. His views on many things are on the far right of European politics. He use to be a member of the mainstream far right Fremskridtspartiet in Norway but left them after disagreements with the party line. He is against the UN, multiculturalism, Muslims, immigration and the left and basically anyone he does not agree with. He blames the political correct parties (including Fremskridtspartiet) for the degeneration of Norwegian society.
4) He is a nationalist big time.
5) He has been planning this for 3+ years.
6) He did make the bombs involved, according to the manifesto released online by him, on the day of the attacks. He claims the manifesto is his according to his lawyer.

LiveLeak.com - Oslo Terrorist Anders Behring Breivik Manifesto

The above link has links to the manifesto, plus a video he released to his Facebook friends and friend of friends on the day of the attack.

7) The manifesto is a very detailed of the last 85 days of preparations.
8) He owns a farm and hence can/could get access to the material used in the bomb.
9) The police did not know anything about this, since his online persona, while far right wing, does not come with threats or any wacko ideas that would have triggered red flags.

Things we dont know yet.

1) Another attacker.. chances are getting small but there is still a chance there was others.
2) Contacts to radical right wing groups in Europe and the US. Nothing has been confirmed yet, but there are some hints of him being in contact to groups in the two areas.. groups that share his political views.

But one thing that is getting much clearer... he is going for the "crazy" card when it comes to his judicial case but regardless of this.. he is and always will be a terrorist.
 
DiAnna said:
The Norweigans must be as shell-shocked and horrified by this as Americans were after Oklahoma City. Home-grown terrorism is frankly more frightening than the imported kind, because we can at least mentally distance ourselves if some strange foreigner with "bizarre" political and religious values does horrible stuff. But for one of our own to do it? That's bone-chilling.

This must be the worse single act of terrorism in their tiny nation's history. More than 91 dead at last count. Dear lord, those poor people. :(
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Agreed. I can't imagine this happening in the Scandivnavian countries (Norway, Sweden, Finland). You know why. It's peaceful as Switzerland, more rich, more healthier, more happier. Hell, it's like heaven there. If there was terrorism in the West, people would name places like the US, UK and such, not Norway or Sweden
 
Goshin said:
He's apparently a Neo-Nazi. What more can you say....
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Nothing. He could have also been a Bono fan; would that make a difference?

As far as 'right wing atrocities', an examination of the historical record might just point out that left wing governments top the list of ideologies who kill its own citizens, along with others. Stalin, Pol Pot, that midget in Korea, Mao, several African dictators, etc. Maybe someone can start a thread and list the death tolls for left wing terrorism? I'm sure it would be enlightening.
 
Oberon said:
Nothing. He could have also been a Bono fan; would that make a difference?

As far as 'right wing atrocities', an examination of the historical record might just point out that left wing governments top the list of ideologies who kill its own citizens, along with others. Stalin, Pol Pot, that midget in Korea, Mao, several African dictators, etc. Maybe someone can start a thread and list the death tolls for left wing terrorism? I'm sure it would be enlightening.
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Could swear I have read something along these lines somewhere very recently... oh yea it was in Norwegian.

Listen yes Stalin, Pol Pot, and so on are a stain on the "left wing" of world politics.. they were/are also self centred egotistical brutal dictators. Pinchoet, the Junta in Argentina and others, also are mass murdering dictatorships, but are of the right wing kind. And that is just the 20th century. If we go back in history 4000+ years every mass murder, genocide and what not.. was on the right wing of politics and often driven by religious fanatism and egocentric royalty dictatorships. And lets not forget that even in our own times, right wing policies drove places like Aparthied South Africa, and meant that countries run by right wing governments refused to put sanctions up against South Africa.. you know Reagan and Thatcher... Or right wing governments that sold drugs, guns to terrorists, or supported other right wing dictators with death squads.

But go ahead and agree with this mass murdering radical Christian terrorist in Norway... we have freedom of opinion, but expect to be called on it at every turn for what it is... selective partisan history.
 
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American said:
Norway police arrive 90 minutes after firing began - Yahoo! News

Can't say much for the Norwegian Police. Looks like it took them over an hour to finish jerking off before they could get over there.
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1) Norwegian police do not carry firearms.
2) Firearms police had to be sent from Oslo
3) It takes 1 hour approx to drive from Oslo to said Island. (yes why did they not fly... now that is a legit question)
4) A huge bomb had just gone off in Oslo so the police, especially the anti-terror-armed police can be excused for being a tad busy.

but yes, why did they not fly... that is a good question.
 
PeteEU said:
1) Norwegian police do not carry firearms.
2) Firearms police had to be sent from Oslo
3) It takes 1 hour approx to drive from Oslo to said Island. (yes why did they not fly... now that is a legit question)
4) A huge bomb had just gone off in Oslo so the police, especially the anti-terror-armed police can be excused for being a tad busy.

but yes, why did they not fly... that is a good question.
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It took them less than 30 minutes to drive from Oslo. The reason they were so slow were badly planning. They had to wait for the boat for 15 minutes, and they waited 10 minutes before they did anything.

The police force in Buskerud should have some weapons, and they should have sent police force over to the island immediately. Not wait for the taskforce from Oslo.
 
Camlon said:
It took them less than 30 minutes to drive from Oslo. The reason they were so slow were badly planning. They had to wait for the boat for 15 minutes, and they waited 10 minutes before they did anything.

The police force in Buskerud should have some weapons, and they should have sent police force over to the island immediately. Not wait for the taskforce from Oslo.
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Listen.. Norway is not the US or Australia. There has been one serial killer in the countries history and there are 40ish murders a year. This is a very non-violent country and hence the police are not armed because there is usually no reason. You might find that odd, but I do not knowing the Norwegian people. The British police are also not armed btw, as are other police forces around the world.

Does the special police force have questions to answer? You betcha, they should have gotten there faster in my opinion, but you have to take everything into context... Oslo had just been hit by a massive bomb and everyone in the media (and on these boards) was screaming Al Q and Islamists and not a tall blond Norwegian dressed in a police uniform. For all they knew, it could be a hoax and in fact the first reports were very minimalistic. It was only at least 30min if not more into the rampage before the first reports of deaths and gun man.. before that it was "a possible gunman" on the island and so on.
 
PeteEU said:
Listen.. Norway is not the US or Australia. There has been one serial killer in the countries history and there are 40ish murders a year. This is a very non-violent country and hence the police are not armed because there is usually no reason. You might find that odd, but I do not knowing the Norwegian people. The British police are also not armed btw, as are other police forces around the world.

Does the special police force have questions to answer? You betcha, they should have gotten there faster in my opinion, but you have to take everything into context... Oslo had just been hit by a massive bomb and everyone in the media (and on these boards) was screaming Al Q and Islamists and not a tall blond Norwegian dressed in a police uniform. For all they knew, it could be a hoax and in fact the first reports were very minimalistic. It was only at least 30min if not more into the rampage before the first reports of deaths and gun man.. before that it was "a possible gunman" on the island and so on.
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Its a worst case scenario they couldn't even imagine. Now they know. It can happen, and crazy people exist anywhere.
 
PeteEU said:
Listen.. Norway is not the US or Australia. There has been one serial killer in the countries history and there are 40ish murders a year. This is a very non-violent country and hence the police are not armed because there is usually no reason. You might find that odd, but I do not knowing the Norwegian people. The British police are also not armed btw, as are other police forces around the world.
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The problem is not that they are not armed. New Zealand police isn't armed either. However, New Zealand police always have easy access to guns. Every single police car have guns. Norway need to do the same and as a Norwegian, I think most Norwegians agree. Norway is not a safe-heaven and this incident show that Norwegian police needs more resources and easy access to guns.

It's more about attitude than crime rate. Singapore is safer than Norway, but they have guns on them. Britain is not safe at all, but they don't have guns.

Does the special police force have questions to answer? You betcha, they should have gotten there faster in my opinion, but you have to take everything into context... Oslo had just been hit by a massive bomb and everyone in the media (and on these boards) was screaming Al Q and Islamists and not a tall blond Norwegian dressed in a police uniform. For all they knew, it could be a hoax and in fact the first reports were very minimalistic. It was only at least 30min if not more into the rampage before the first reports of deaths and gun man.. before that it was "a possible gunman" on the island and so on.
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They didn't wait 10 minutes or so, they waited 40 minutes before they asked Oslo for help. Then after that they used 50 minutes to get to the island. That's not okay! Buskerud police should have had access to weapons and they shouldn't have waited for the taskforce. The taskforce shouldn't have to wait for a boat. Also they should have access to helicopter.

I think after the initial shock, people will start criticizing the police. We need to get away from the thought that weak policing means low crime. Norwegian police needs more resources and better preparation.
 
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You people amaze me. Trying to say this guy is "right wing" or "Christian" is simply stupid. Whether left or right, once a person steps this deep into extremism, they are an extremist, nothing less, nothing more.

I have seen some even say this killer has no mental issues. Let's run a simple test. People who are not ****ed up in the head don't kill nearly a hundred people. Is it an excuse for what he did? Of course not.

I see the police being criticized as well. The country has 40 murders a year. I doubt they have mass murders annually. I also doubt that the entire police force is involved in those 40 murders. The police more than likely had no idea of what to do or how to start doing it.

Seriously people, this is a tragedy brought on by what looks to be a single deranged man. Sure, in the mind of the murderer this was politically motivated, but those of us who are a tad more sane need not grab that morsel and start using it to bash each over the head with ideology, lest we do end up that insane.
 
Polotick said:
You people amaze me. Trying to say this guy is "right wing" or "Christian" is simply stupid. Whether left or right, once a person steps this deep into extremism, they are an extremist, nothing less, nothing more.

I have seen some even say this killer has no mental issues. Let's run a simple test. People who are not ****ed up in the head don't kill nearly a hundred people. Is it an excuse for what he did? Of course not.

I see the police being criticized as well. The country has 40 murders a year. I doubt they have mass murders annually. I also doubt that the entire police force is involved in those 40 murders. The police more than likely had no idea of what to do or how to start doing it.

Seriously people, this is a tragedy brought on by what looks to be a single deranged man. Sure, in the mind of the murderer this was politically motivated, but those of us who are a tad more sane need not grab that morsel and start using it to bash each over the head with ideology, lest we do end up that insane.
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I totally agree with you. Some people on here, it seems, are trying to turn this into a left vs right hatefest, which is the very thing that it shouldn't be. The only reason that I bought up the fact that he was right-wing was because so many people in the beginning of this (from the media to President Obama) were trying to make it seems as if AQ or in general some Islamic group had done it.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
I totally agree with you. Some people on here, it seems, are trying to turn this into a left vs right hatefest, which is the very thing that it shouldn't be. The only reason that I bought up the fact that he was right-wing was because so many people in the beginning of this (from the media to President Obama) were trying to make it seems as if AQ or in general some Islamic group had done it.
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The man was motivated by radical right wing policies against the left wing party of Norway, so of course it will be a left vs right thing.. gezz.
 
Camlon said:
The problem is not that they are not armed. New Zealand police isn't armed either. However, New Zealand police always have easy access to guns. Every single police car have guns. Norway need to do the same and as a Norwegian, I think most Norwegians agree. Norway is not a safe-heaven and this incident show that Norwegian police needs more resources and easy access to guns.

It's more about attitude than crime rate. Singapore is safer than Norway, but they have guns on them. Britain is not safe at all, but they don't have guns.


They didn't wait 10 minutes or so, they waited 40 minutes before they asked Oslo for help. Then after that they used 50 minutes to get to the island. That's not okay! Buskerud police should have had access to weapons and they shouldn't have waited for the taskforce. The taskforce shouldn't have to wait for a boat. Also they should have access to helicopter.

I think after the initial shock, people will start criticizing the police. We need to get away from the thought that weak policing means low crime. Norwegian police needs more resources and better preparation.
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The police are holding a press conference as I write this. A few things...

1) they did not wait as you claim.. in fact your whole time line is wrong.
2) From the first reports till he was arrested it took under an hour, this includes travel time for the special forces.
3) The police dont have transportation helicopters to transport the special forces... only the military has such helicopters.

Only thing I have not heard was about the local police, but the audio cut out :(
 
PeteEU said:
The man was motivated by radical right wing policies against the left wing party of Norway, so of course it will be a left vs right thing.. gezz.
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Bull****. Extremism is just extremism.
 
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