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Obama, in stand for gay rights, calls for repeal of DOMA

Redress said:
You really have not actually put any thought whatsoever into this have you? Gays tend to vote democrat. Gays are a tiny group. Pandering to a group who already supports you and who are relatively small by supporting a controversial legislation is not the way to get re-elected.
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Oh indeed? Yet up until...say...THIS declaration there have been interruptions at mulitple Obama functions by? thats right...gay rights groups, upset that he hadnt taken up the rainbow banner. Come now...before you question levels of thought put into posts...welll...maybe have someone proofread yours.
 
I don't feel comfortable with DOMA or the Respect for Marriage Act.

The only capacity in which the Federal government or SCOTUS should be involved is in forcing the States to acknowledge Equal Protection and strike down the prejudicial pro-heterosexual marriage laws written into State Constitutions. Outside of that, I do not want to see the Federal gov endorsing marriage AT ALL.
 
roguenuke said:
My question is, why do people always bring up the fact that Obama is doing this for elections only? Why would he need to do this? If the decision is between Obama or a GOP candidate on this issue alone, most people would know which would fit their beliefs on this issue the best by now. It isn't like it is a secret until election time.

I personally think that Obama is right on this issue, mostly (one of the few I agree with him, to a point, with). The only part I really don't agree on, will most likely have to be decided by the SCOTUS, and that is what a state's right to discriminate against same sex couples should be.

But this issue won't come down to Obama, since anything done to change the current policy to allow same sex couples to be recognized as legally married by the federal government will almost certainly be approved by Obama. Now, that being said, it is quite possible that a GOP candidate who gets into office will be an issue, since if such a bill gets through Congress after the election (which is plausible, considering it is still in committee) and Obama isn't in office, it is quite likely that any of the GOP candidates currently vying for the Presidency are likely to veto the bill. This would be a huge blow to equality in marriage.

So, just looking at this issue in relation to the election, an intelligent person could see that as long as Obama holds his current stance, he has the vote of those who are pro-SSM if it comes down to this issue for them, and likely doesn't have the vote of those who are pro-DOMA. He doesn't have to try to change anything at all, because his current stance of not vetoing any bills to repeal DOMA is going to be better than the GOPs candidates' position of most likely vetoing any such bill and possibly pushing for an anti-SSM amendment.
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He promised it in 2008 now he is still promising it. Obama is not concerned about gays. Read my link that shows his letter from 2008
 
Krasche said:
I know this is a little off topic but... repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell really didn't fix anything. If you were gay and in the military, you had to keep it under wraps or you were out. While that may be harsh, it protected the notion of professionalism in a sense. Think about it, not just gays, but EVERYONE who expresses their personal views in the workplace tend to be a distraction. In the military, yes gays would get kicked out if they were found out, but they only got found out if they were obnoxious about it or constantly hit on their coworkers, which is innappropriate for the work place anyway. Even if you're straight and do that you fall under the catagory of disruptive conduct or sexual harassment. So any SENSIBLE Soldier/Sailor/Airman/Marine, gay or straight, doesn't flaunt around parading their beliefs in the Military environment, therefore repealing DADT didn't really fix anything other than a problem that wasn't really there.
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Completely false. I'm not sure where you have been getting your information but it is almost completely wrong. The vast majority of discharges under DADT did not have anything to do with people hitting on their co-workers or being disruptive and flaunting. I'd be interested to hear what the source of your misinformation is.
 
ptif219 said:
He promised it in 2008 now he is still promising it. Obama is not concerned about gays. Read my link that shows his letter from 2008
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So? What is your point? He's a politician. He's going to promise all types of things, just like the GOP candidate will. That doesn't mean that the GOP candidate will be any more likely to get what they are promising through or even work to get everything they promise through. Anyone who believes what a politician says alone, is pretty ignorant. You should go on what a politician does.
 
roguenuke said:
So? What is your point? He's a politician. He's going to promise all types of things, just like the GOP candidate will. That doesn't mean that the GOP candidate will be any more likely to get what they are promising through or even work to get everything they promise through. Anyone who believes what a politician says alone, is pretty ignorant. You should go on what a politician does.
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Obama and the DOJ have fought against the gays. Obama lied to get votes and now he is doing it again
 
ptif219 said:
Obama and the DOJ have fought against the gays. Obama lied to get votes and now he is doing it again
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How did they fight against the gays? What exactly did Obama do that would make a significant difference on getting more gay rights and/or getting same sex marriage? The only thing that comes to mind for me is them fighting to keep the timeline for DADT repeal, instead of allowing it to be struck down by the courts without the adjustment period. Anything else that he has done to actually hurt gay rights? Can you point out anything that any of the GOP candidates have done to help gay rights that Obama wouldn't have done, since they are who, so far, are vying for the biggest chance to be President instead of Obama?
 
ptif219 said:
Didn't he say that in 2008 yet he has failed. Obama will say what he thinks the group he is talking to wants to hear. He is concerned about votes and the election not about gays
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Well he certainly isn't obsessed with gays like you and the GOP.
 
Senator Franken totally demolished the anti-gay-rights witness in the DOMA hearing today:

 
roguenuke said:
How did they fight against the gays? What exactly did Obama do that would make a significant difference on getting more gay rights and/or getting same sex marriage? The only thing that comes to mind for me is them fighting to keep the timeline for DADT repeal, instead of allowing it to be struck down by the courts without the adjustment period. Anything else that he has done to actually hurt gay rights? Can you point out anything that any of the GOP candidates have done to help gay rights that Obama wouldn't have done, since they are who, so far, are vying for the biggest chance to be President instead of Obama?
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Anger grows as DOJ fights DADT injunction | Keen News Service

Obama administration will no longer defend DOMA - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
 
ptif219 said:
Anger grows as DOJ fights DADT injunction | Keen News Service
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Which is what I mentioned, and not going to have any significant affect on getting DADT repealed, but will rather just delay it a few months to when it is supposed to happen. I happen to believe that the military shouldn't be putting anyone else out under DADT right now, since it is likely going to cost them money overall to do so, since we know that all those put out should be allowed to attempt to come back in in a few months anyway.

This doesn't make a major difference in the overall scheme of getting gays the right to serve openly in the military. It is people complaining.

ptif219 said:
Obama administration will no longer defend DOMA - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
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How exactly does Obama not defending DOMA in court equate to him hurting the cause of getting it repealed? It might have been better if he would have just allowed it to go to court and just provided the same defense that the DOMA has been getting so far, which is likely to get it overturned anyway, but at least this way the cost of defending DOMA is directly attributed to the GOP since they are the ones insisting that it be defended.

And you haven't addressed my question about the GOP and their own contributions/actions for gay rights/SSM. Most people are going to compare records on issues, not just base their decision off of what one of the two does for/against a certain issue.
 
roguenuke said:
Which is what I mentioned, and not going to have any significant affect on getting DADT repealed, but will rather just delay it a few months to when it is supposed to happen. I happen to believe that the military shouldn't be putting anyone else out under DADT right now, since it is likely going to cost them money overall to do so, since we know that all those put out should be allowed to attempt to come back in in a few months anyway.

This doesn't make a major difference in the overall scheme of getting gays the right to serve openly in the military. It is people complaining.



How exactly does Obama not defending DOMA in court equate to him hurting the cause of getting it repealed? It might have been better if he would have just allowed it to go to court and just provided the same defense that the DOMA has been getting so far, which is likely to get it overturned anyway, but at least this way the cost of defending DOMA is directly attributed to the GOP since they are the ones insisting that it be defended.

And you haven't addressed my question about the GOP and their own contributions/actions for gay rights/SSM. Most people are going to compare records on issues, not just base their decision off of what one of the two does for/against a certain issue.
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Obama promised to repeal DOMA in 2008. Nothing has happened so now this election cycle he will make the same failed promise.

Obama is not doing what he told gays he would do
 
ptif219 said:
Obama promised to repeal DOMA in 2008. Nothing has happened so now this election cycle he will make the same failed promise.

Obama is not doing what he told gays he would do
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So doing more to rid the country of that putrid piece of dog **** that is DOMA than any other president in history is doing nothing?
 
teamosil said:
Senator Franken totally demolished the anti-gay-rights witness in the DOMA hearing today:

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I love Al Franken. There are very few people who can be both intelligent and funny about political issues at the same time.
 
I say let'em get married. They have the right to be just as miserable as straights.

But, when their spouse takes the kids, most of their ****, half their social security, puts them on the street, working three jobs to pay the child support and alimony, or they get tossed in the joint for not paying alimony; don't come cryin' about being gay.
 
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apdst said:
I say let'em get married. They have the right to be just as miserable as straights.

But, when their spouse takes the kids, most of their ****, half their social security, puts them on the street, working three jobs to pay the child support and alimony, or they get tossed in the joint for not paying alimony; don't come cryin' about being gay.
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Sounds fair to me.
 
apdst said:
I say let'em get married. They have the right to be just as miserable as straights.

But, when their spouse takes the kids, most of their ****, half their social security, puts them on the street, working three jobs to pay the child support and alimony, or they get tossed in the joint for not paying alimony; don't come cryin' about being gay.
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I don't know why you would think people would do that.
 
DiAnna said:
Hasn't recent federal court rulings pretty much made DOMA obsolete, if not downright unconstitutional? Under what authority can the government refuse to extend rights equally to gays and straights alike?
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Well - I support the repeal, yet I find it interesting that Obama's calling for it.

Regardless - a big issue is whether marrige is a right or whether it's just a social norm or tradition rather than a right.
 
Aderleth said:
Sounds fair to me.
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I'm all for it, but I know just as well that, "but...but...but...I'm gay", is going to come into it, somewhere, somehow.

I honestly believe that if gays truly grasped how ****ed up a divorce can get, they wouldn't be pushing to legalize gay marriage.
 
Your Star said:
I don't know why you would think people would do that.
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:lamo Human nature, I reckon.

Tell a gay person that he/she can't see her kids--non-biological kids at that--except under surpervison, has to pay out half of his/her monthly salary for child and spousal support--again child support for non-biological kids. Cough up half of that retirement and/or social security, pay the note on a house that he/she isn't allowed, by court order, to set foot in, has a restraining order, or has to go to jail, because of delinquint child/spousal support and watch him/her start crapping excuses why that isn't fair and you can bet your butt that, "but...but...but...I'm gay", is going to be the first one thrown out there.

More than likely, "It was just a phase! I'm not gay, anymore!". :lamo
 
apdst said:
I'm all for it, but I know just as well that, "but...but...but...I'm gay", is going to come into it, somewhere, somehow.

I honestly believe that if gays truly grasped how ****ed up a divorce can get, they wouldn't be pushing to legalize gay marriage.
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Well aren't you just a ray of sunshine:sun
 
apdst said:
I always am. It's just hard for most Libbos to see it. ;)

Are you married and/or been divorced?
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Nope, lived with a couple of gals though. The last one still has my TVs and recently wrecked the Tahoe I bought her.
 
apdst said:
:lamo Human nature, I reckon.

Tell a gay person that he/she can't see her kids--non-biological kids at that--except under surpervison, has to pay out half of his/her monthly salary for child and spousal support--again child support for non-biological kids. Cough up half of that retirement and/or social security, pay the note on a house that he/she isn't allowed, by court order, to set foot in, has a restraining order, or has to go to jail, because of delinquint child/spousal support and watch him/her start crapping excuses why that isn't fair and you can bet your butt that, "but...but...but...I'm gay", is going to be the first one thrown out there.

More than likely, "It was just a phase! I'm not gay, anymore!". :lamo
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But that makes no sense :lol:

Seriously, that is better then having no legal standard for a long term relationship that has ended with those same circumstances.

If your argument is, well they won't like it, it's damn weak :lol:
 
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