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Gov. urges Oklahomans to pray for rain

madman said:
LOL, silly :lamo

'Massive heat wave' on way; Okla. tries prayer - Weather - msnbc.com

In the thick of the heat wave is Oklahoma where Gov. Mary Fallin asked Oklahomans to pray for rain this Sunday.

"The power of prayer is a wonderful thing, and I would ask every Oklahoman to look to a greater power this weekend and ask for rain," Fallin said in a news release on Thursday.
Fallin on Thursday also issued a ban on outdoor burning for the western half of the state because of the extreme drought conditions.

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Prayer does not work, never has, never will. There is ZERO scientific evidence. it only give people that warm fuzzy feeling.
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There is no scientific evidence because there is no experiment that can successfully collect the data. Unless you think you can devise one.
 
American said:
There is no scientific evidence because there is no experiment that can successfully collect the data. Unless you think you can devise one.
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And that's what makes it silly. People having mental conversations with a "being" that has no evidence of it existing, or even a method of gathering data for that matter.
 
BDBoop said:
Really? I disagree. Oh look! We cancelled each other out. :D Welcome to the board.
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Thank you for the welcome!

An elected official has certain influence and power over people similar to a teacher and their students. By promoting religion they are violating the idea of separation of church and state.

The governors can pray all they want too. The citizens of the state can pray all they want too. A governor cannot stand up and promote religion.
 
The Rev Kros said:
Thank you for the welcome!

An elected official has certain influence and power over people similar to a teacher and their students. By promoting religion they are violating the idea of separation of church and state.

The governors can pray all they want too. The citizens of the state can pray all they want too. A governor cannot stand up and promote religion.
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I'm not willing to yield the point that he did promote religion, BUT: he didn't - not one. That's like saying AA promotes religion. It doesn't. If a chair is your higher power, and it can get you through, then have at it.
 
no it's not.....no one has to follow his request. silly, really.
 
There can be only two outcomes:

It rains. "God answered our prayers."

It doesn't rain. "It's God's will."
 
The Rev Kros said:
Thank you for the welcome!

By promoting religion they are violating the idea of separation of church and state.
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And let's be real here, the religion is christianity. Tell me, is the the Gov. of OKLAHOMA speaking to muslims, hindus, ect? I think not.
 
BDBoop said:
I'm not willing to yield the point that he did promote religion, BUT: he didn't - not one. That's like saying AA promotes religion. It doesn't. If a chair is your higher power, and it can get you through, then have at it.
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Do you pray to your chair?
People user Prayer to try and communicate to a deity.
 
madman said:
LOL, silly :lamo

'Massive heat wave' on way; Okla. tries prayer - Weather - msnbc.com

In the thick of the heat wave is Oklahoma where Gov. Mary Fallin asked Oklahomans to pray for rain this Sunday.

"The power of prayer is a wonderful thing, and I would ask every Oklahoman to look to a greater power this weekend and ask for rain," Fallin said in a news release on Thursday.
Fallin on Thursday also issued a ban on outdoor burning for the western half of the state because of the extreme drought conditions.

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Prayer does not work, never has, never will. There is ZERO scientific evidence. it only give people that warm fuzzy feeling.
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I suppose in Sanfransicko it might be silly. But considering the fact the vast majority of Americans are religious it is not a silly to ask people to pray for rain.
 
Risky Thicket said:
There can be only two outcomes:

It rains. "God answered our prayers."

It doesn't rain. "It's God's will."
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No.

It rains. "God answered our prayers."

It doesn't rain. "God is angry with our tolerance of homosexuals."
 
madman said:
And let's be real here, the religion is christianity. Tell me, is the the Gov. of OKLAHOMA speaking to muslims, hindus, ect? I think not.
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He's asking everybody to pray. If he'd meant God, he could or would have said God. He didn't. He said 'higher power.' I'm not big on second-guessing people.

I already took it to my Facebook page, also asking for candles and crystals. Whatever works. If a person has any faith in anything, I'm sure Oklahomans will appreciate the support.
 
The Rev Kros said:
Do you pray to your chair?
People user Prayer to try and communicate to a deity.
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My sister has 30 years of sobriety. Atheists get sober too, y'know?
 
BDBoop said:
OR! He was shooting for California, and his aim is for ****.
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Maybe thats why California has all those wild fires.:mrgreen:
 
jamesrage said:
I suppose in Sanfransicko it might be silly. But considering the fact the vast majority of Americans are religious it is not a silly to ask people to pray for rain.
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At least you can gather data and present evidence of a city being "sicko", unlike religion.
 
BDBoop said:
He's asking everybody to pray. If he'd meant God, he could or would have said God. He didn't. He said 'higher power.' I'm not big on second-guessing people.

I already took it to my Facebook page, also asking for candles and crystals. Whatever works. If a person has any faith in anything, I'm sure Oklahomans will appreciate the support.
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Be very careful what you ask for, god/s/esses see things their own ways.

quail-1.jpg
 
BDBoop said:
My sister has 30 years of sobriety. Atheists get sober too, y'know?
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What higher power does an athiest believe in?

People give up alcohol without AA. Charlie Sheen was right about AA. It's a cult. Telling people they are powerless over alcohol and asking them to defer to a higher power is stupid! The power is theirs alone.
 
RStringfield said:
What higher power does an athiest believe in?

People give up alcohol without AA. Charlie Sheen was right about AA. It's a cult. Telling people they are powerless over alcohol and asking them to defer to a higher power is stupid! The power is theirs alone.
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That was a little rude. Until you've walked that road you're just speculating.
 
BDBoop said:
He's asking everybody to pray. If he'd meant God, he could or would have said God. He didn't. He said 'higher power.' I'm not big on second-guessing people.

I already took it to my Facebook page, also asking for candles and crystals. Whatever works. If a person has any faith in anything, I'm sure Oklahomans will appreciate the support.
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Rev does have a point though, but that was not the point of my thread.

I know he's not commanding everyone to pray, or i know he didnt say to pray to a god. However, he did say "pray to our christian god". He might have not literally said that, but come on, its' OKLAHOMA. He's pandering to his base, and his base are christians.

BTW, love your fox brainwashing sig :)
 
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SlackMaster said:
I don't care if private citizens pray, or if a religious leader asks people to pray. But when an government official asks people to pray, that's another issue altogether.

I'm a firm believer in the separation of church and state. I find this kind of act unconstitutional.
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Actually there is no separation of church and state in the constitution, so it it not unconstitutional for an elected official to ask people to pray. Here is the text of the first amendment regarding religion"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ". Now notice it did not say that elected officials can not participate in religious functions, can not ask constituents to pray for rain, that public schools can not have Christmas trees and Christmas plays with Jesus in it, and that ten commandments, star of david, crescent moons and other other religious symbol can not be one tax payer owned buildings. This is why the text does not say "congress shall be barred from exercising religious beliefs in public or government functions.". The purpose of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ". is make to where the government can not ban religion or to force you to join a religion.
 
It's not going to hurt anything, if anything it will bring those you believe together ina positive way
I don't understand why you care so much to post a thread, or feel the need to make fun of people for their personal beliefs. I have a few guesses.
 
The state doesn't have to take out a full page ad saying, "This is a Christian" nation for there to be a violation of the establishment clause.

Traditionally in courts they use what is called a "Lemon Test" to determine if the act is constitutional. So let's apply it here.

1. The government's action must have a secular legislative purpose;
... Not seeing a "secular" purpose to asking people to pray to a deity.

2. The government's action must not have the primary effect of either advancing or inhibiting religion;
...asking people to pray seems like advancing religion to me.

3. The government's action must not result in an "excessive government entanglement" with religion.
... We could argue til the end of days what is "excessive" but in my mind "excessive" is any entanglement.

All 3 conditions do not have to be met. Only one. Yet, I think it's clear that the action we're discussing fail this test.

Unless he can provide some evidence where praying has more effect on the real world than standing on your head, or doing a rain dance, or any other action... then his actions can only be construed as an abuse of authority to advance religious belief.

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Regarding AA, there are a lot of people who feel that court ordered AA is a violation of the establishment clause. Some states have even allowed people to choose a treatment of their choosing which includes secular AA like programs.
 
Taylor said:
It's not going to hurt anything, if anything it will bring those you believe together ina positive way
I don't understand why you care so much to post a thread, or feel the need to make fun of people for their personal beliefs. I have a few guesses.
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I know it's not hurting anything. People can pray to their cat, house, money, garbage disposal, mailman. In my opinion, it's just silly.
It's not that im trying make fun of peoples beliefs, it's just, i can not fathom why people believe in a "god" that does not exist.

Why do christians get so defensive when people oppose their "god"? Are they not secure in their religion?
 
madman said:
And that's what makes it silly. People having mental conversations with a "being" that has no evidence of it existing, or even a method of gathering data for that matter.
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Hundreds of years ago there was no proof or method to prove the earth was spherical, yet now we know it is. Who knows what we'll discover in several hundred more years.
 
jamesrage said:
Actually there is no separation of church and state in the constitution, so it it not unconstitutional for an elected official to ask people to pray. Here is the text of the first amendment regarding religion"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ". Now notice it did not say that elected officials can not participate in religious functions, can not ask constituents to pray for rain, that public schools can not have Christmas trees and Christmas plays with Jesus in it, and that ten commandments, star of david, crescent moons and other other religious symbol can not be one tax payer owned buildings. This is why the text does not say "congress shall be barred from exercising religious beliefs in public or government functions.". The purpose of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ". is make to where the government can not ban religion or to force you to join a religion.
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I don't think anyone made the argument that those specific words are in the constitution, but check out supreme court rulings over the years.

Specifically Lemon v. Kurtzman (1971)
 
SlackMaster said:
The state doesn't have to take out a full page ad saying, "This is a Christian" nation for there to be a violation of the establishment clause.

Traditionally in courts they use what is called a "Lemon Test" to determine if the act is constitutional. So let's apply it here.

1. The government's action must have a secular legislative purpose;
... Not seeing a "secular" purpose to asking people to pray to a deity.

2. The government's action must not have the primary effect of either advancing or inhibiting religion;
...asking people to pray seems like advancing religion to me.

3. The government's action must not result in an "excessive government entanglement" with religion.
... We could argue til the end of days what is "excessive" but in my mind "excessive" is any entanglement.

All 3 conditions do not have to be met. Only one. Yet, I think it's clear that the action we're discussing fail this test.

Unless he can provide some evidence where praying has more effect on the real world than standing on your head, or doing a rain dance, or any other action... then his actions can only be construed as an abuse of authority to advance religious belief.

---

Regarding AA, there are a lot of people who feel that court ordered AA is a violation of the establishment clause. Some states have even allowed people to choose a treatment of their choosing which includes secular AA like programs.
Click to expand...

Well I don't think we have to be unreasonable here. I mean the governor saying that people should pray for rain, that's not violation of church and state, nor the establishment clause. Now if he said "burn down mosques because they are an affront to our Christian God" or "hunt down and destroy atheists!"; then maybe we can be saying that it's over the line. But what he said there was not over the line. On some level we must retain our common sense else we won't be allowed to do anything.
 
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