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Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

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GhostlyJoe said:
Who is serious about cutting the deficit again?
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these days, looking at the 61.6 trillion dollars of unfunded obligation, doubling every ten years, the people who are serious about cutting SPENDING are the people most sober about balance
 
The Prof said:
tell it to cuomo, rahm, moonbeam, malloy, omalley, quinn, the massachusetts house, the springfield house, the trenton house...
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Tell it the people of Wisconsin. The people of Ohio. My son's K teacher, who's retiring early because of fear of pension cuts. You think she's gonna vote for Kasich next time?

That's the thing, prof. While the Democrats take these issues seriously and show willingness to compromise, as evidenced by your links, the GOP wants the whole cake.
 
thank you

compromise, eat the whole cake...

republicans are gonna squeeze every last billionth dollar of REDUCTION we can get

which is a lot more than has so far been offered or agreed upon

you'll get your debt ceiling, but you're gonna have to pay

and the price is RISING

give it a week

we got combat boots webb on our side, stiffneck ben nelson---on record

i personally KNOW how joe manchin from west virginia is gonna come down, jon tester in montana, even jiltin joe lieberman the one time veep candidate...

i could go on, the votes are simply NOT there for the white house, all histrionics aside

stay up
 
The Prof said:
these days, looking at the 61.6 trillion dollars of unfunded obligation, doubling every ten years, the people who are serious about cutting SPENDING are the people most sober about balance
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Ryan's plan: Obamacare for seniors. It's highly unpopular, though. Americans aren't going to let you guys dismantle SS and Medicare, no matter how much you salivate over the prosepct. Those unfunded liabilities represent millions of aging Boomers who are reliant on these programs for their continued livelihoods. What will you say to them? Take what we give you and like it?
 
The Prof said:
thank you

compromise, eat the whole cake...

republicans are gonna squeeze every last billionth dollar of REDUCTION we can get

which is a lot more than has so far been offered or agreed upon

you'll get your debt ceiling, but you're gonna have to pay

and the price is RISING

give it a week

we got combat boots webb on our side, stiffneck ben nelson---on record

i personally KNOW how joe manchin from west virginia is gonna come down, jon tester in montana, even jiltin joe lieberman the one time veep candidate...

i could go on, the votes are simply NOT there for the white house, all histrionics aside

stay up
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You sure do lean on Ben Nelson a lot, prof. He's a man with a mind of his own. To try to make him the poster boy for the Democratic Party is farce.

Let's be real: The GOP doesn't have the votes either, and Boehner is on record saying the debt limit must be raised. So both parties say its vital to raise the debt limit. Both are behind trillions in spending cuts as part of the deal. So what's the hold up?
 
The Barbarian said:
Another thing … if your tax and spend policy works so well … then maybe you can explain to me .. while during the Clinton terms … we had the largest tax hike in modern history, we cut defense spending to bare bones … we had the dot com economy that created more millionaires faster then any time in our history, we fought no major wars .. (unless you count the few times Clinton lobbed some bombs around to deflect from being caught lying to the grand jury) and we still.... with all that .. managed to go another 1.5 trillion dollars in debt...? I'll await your answer. ​
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I posted that chart, not to prove that tax hikes were good for the economy, but to disprove the rightwing claim that tax cuts are good for the economy, and job creation.
 
GhostlyJoe said:
Americans aren't going to let you guys dismantle SS and Medicare
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whatever's done to entitlements will be done with the imprimatur of the president and his party

patience
 
The Prof said:
whatever's done to entitlements will be done with the imprimatur of the president and his party

patience
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This is true. That's why the repubs are acting like fools. They have a historical opportunity to make large changes in these entitlement programs, and have the dems share in the blame. Instead, they're being petulant
 
sangha said:
I posted that chart, not to prove that tax hikes were good for the economy, but to disprove the rightwing claim that tax cuts are good for the economy, and job creation.
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Your chart means nothing without citation to back up its authenticity. Any jack ass can produce a chart full of misdirection, and lies. Who was that said that there are two liars in this world, that is liars and damned stats.

j-mac
 
j-mac said:
Your chart means nothing without citation to back up its authenticity. Any jack ass can produce a chart full of misdirection, and lies. Who was that said that there are two liars in this world, that is liars and damned stats.

j-mac
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I provided the source.
 
GhostlyJoe said:
Ryan's plan: Obamacare for seniors. It's highly unpopular, though. Americans aren't going to let you guys dismantle SS and Medicare, no matter how much you salivate over the prosepct. Those unfunded liabilities represent millions of aging Boomers who are reliant on these programs for their continued livelihoods. What will you say to them? Take what we give you and like it?
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I really can't see SS as an entitlement. The government takes payroll taxes out for the exclusive reason to provide for the elderly and disabled when they become disabled or retire. Let me say that once more. The government takes taxes out of every single paycheck for the sole purpose of returning that money when one is no longer able to work or has retired. That does not fit in the definition of an entitlement.

If you really want to rail about entitlements there are plenty out there, arts, Public broadcasting, yes, even medicare and medicade and welfare. There is a very long list, so why attack SS, which is an agreement between the American taxpayer and the government?
 
Polotick said:
I really can't see SS as an entitlement. The government takes payroll taxes out for the exclusive reason to provide for the elderly and disabled when they become disabled or retire. Let me say that once more. The government takes taxes out of every single paycheck for the sole purpose of returning that money when one is no longer able to work or has retired. That does not fit in the definition of an entitlement.

If you really want to rail about entitlements there are plenty out there, arts, Public broadcasting, yes, even medicare and medicade and welfare. There is a very long list, so why attack SS, which is an agreement between the American taxpayer and the government?
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Depends on how you define entitlement. If you mean entitlement with the negative connotation that implies taking advantage of the government, then no it's not an entitlement. If you mean I am ENTITLED to the money you took out of my check, then it absolutely is an entitlement.
 
Swizz said:
Depends on how you define entitlement. If you mean entitlement with the negative connotation that implies taking advantage of the government, then no it's not an entitlement. If you mean I am ENTITLED to the money you took out of my check, then it absolutely is an entitlement.
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Yeah, I was trying to avoid the negative connotation with that. :)
 
Swizz said:
So do you guys think Misterveritis will continue to refer to Obama as 'the one-term president Obama' throughout his second term?
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what's interesting is watching half of the country call Obama a communist while the other half calls him a corporatist.

at the same time, many of those accusing him of corporatism are employees and consumers of corporate goods, while those who call him a communist are consumers / proponents of building many of our consumer goods in communist nations because American workers are "overpaid" and "lazy" and building things in a capitalist country / employing other capitalists would be protectionist socialism.

it's a crazy world. someone ought to sell tickets. but then a corporate monopoly would arise to claim all of the tickets, and any effort to rectify the situation would be communism.
 
The Barbarian said:
have a simple question, if tax increases are suddenly so important to Obama and the liberal left … then why in the hell didn't they just let the Bush tax cuts expire … they had the majority in the house, the senate .. and a liberal president …. and to top that .. they didn't need a vote .. the cuts were set to expire .. no vote meant that they would have expired .. instead .. democrats voted to extent the very tax cuts they are now wanting to do away with … makes no sense to me .
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You obviously don't follow politics much. Not a single republican would agree to let the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans expire and a handful of spineless bluedog democrats followed along....and you are missing a key part....Republicans would not agree to allow the tax cuts for the middle and working class remain unless the wealthiest Americans were allowed to an extension as well.....so they did need a vote.

Essentially the Republicans and the Bluedog Democrats held the middle class and working class hostage and said, unless you agree to tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, we are not going to agree to help the middle/working class. Thus....it is clear who has the interests of the working/middle class at heart and who has the interests of the wealthiest Americans at heart. It isn't too hard to understand.
 
The Barbarian said:
Cotton is up 132 percent, Agricultural raw materials up 39 percent, Oil up 21 percent. Coal up 36 percent & Metals up 57 percent, Coffee up 70 percent, as well as Wheat up 62 percent, Beef up 39 percent, Fish up 31 percent. Hard logs are up 19 percent, Soft logs up 27 percent. Rubber is also up 79 percent. Wool is up at over 57 percent. Fertilizer is up to 39 percent. Soy beans up 42 percent. Corn is up 58 percent, and Silver up 60 percent; Industrial Inputs Price Index up 51 percent. Commodity Food Price Index up 30 percent. Commodity Fuel Price Index up 20 percent. Overall Commodity Price Index up 20 percent.

Seeing this is where most companies get their raw materials from I really quite confused .. I guess we need to bow down to the companies making these products that have only increased prices an average of 1.6 % over the last year .. and absorbing all those price increases … so we the consumer aren't faced with higher prices ..
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what are the housing prices in your area compared to 2008?
 
Ikari said:
HE created this mess?
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Exactly. The one term Marxist president Obama increased the size of government. It is he who massively increased spending. It is his fault and it is his problem. Republicans need to walk away.
Ikari said:
Obama may just be another Bush clone,
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President Bush set the stage for the one term Marxist president Obama. But Obama is no clone.
Ikari said:
. . .he just went on precedent from government and made things worse.
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He clearly has made things worse.
Ikari said:
The Republocrats got us into this mess, it's high time the lot of them do their god damned job. Quit pandering to some elite class of douchebags and do what's right by the American people.
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What is right for the American people is to cut the size of government. It is not to raise taxes. It is to solely cut spending.
 
Ikari said:
I'd hope they'd roll back the government to pre-Clinton levels, maybe even pre-Reagan levels. But when's the last time government cut itself? It ain't emo.
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If the Republicans just walk away on August 2nd, the new Independence Day, the one term Marxist president Obama will have to pay our debts and figure out what to cut. He will not get any more money.

Personally, I love it. Now if only the Republican leadership will stand fast.
 
BDBoop said:
As I understand it, once the rich have to pay a reasonable amount, they are all leaving the country. One wonders where they will go.
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when the rich are paying an effective federal income tax rate of 24% (those making between 400K and 5 million-ie almost 95% of that bracket) and a combined effective federal tax rate of 30% and 47% of the country pays an effective rate of O and 60% are paying less than the government spends on them I find it idiotic for anyone to claim that the rich must pay more to be reasonable.
 
randel said:
if you are not willing to compromise on taxes, then you are not compromising on anything
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Let us only hope this is the case. No compromise. Cut. Cut. Cut. Cut.

randel said:
if you are a republican....the administration has put everything on the table, has been willing to do a deal that is DOUBLE, 4 trill, that the repubs want no part of....sad to see the talks going in this direction, but good on obama for growing a set and telling the repubs to piss off.
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Let us hope that the one term Marxist president Obama will stand fast. Then let's hope the Republicans also stand fast.

What do we get? August 2nd we get the New Independence Day. The one term Marxist president Obama has to pay our debts. After that he cannot spend what the nation does not have. I love it.
 
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