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Obama: No Deal Without Tax Hikes

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Boo Radley said:
You'd be hard pressed to show much of any effect taxes have on growth either way. Theory is one thing, actual evidence another.
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So you're saying we should forget theory, cross our fingers, and hope for the best in the midst of an anemic economy and historic debt crisis.

Noted.
 
Taylor said:
So you're saying we should forget theory, cross our fingers, and hope for the best in the midst of an anemic economy and historic debt crisis.

Noted.
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It's better than forgetting about reality so you can put words in other peoples' mouth

So how many hole digging jobs have you created? Maybe you should quit digging.
 
sangha said:
The only class warfare going on is the rights war against the middle class. The left just wants the rich to pay their fair share.
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I am not a right winger but am tired of the type of thinking expressed above. Would you care to define what you consider rich, then what you consider "fair share". Remember that taxes on upper bracket people are already legislated to rise about 4% in 2013 and other 4-5% as part of health care legislation in 2014. So that would being the top Federal rate to about 45%. On top of that state taxes in many places have risen this year with the top rate at about 8-10% for many. As we are looking at 10 year deficit plans it is probably fair to start with a top rate of 45% and say that is unfair and needs to be raised to X%.
 
37% of all united states jobs created since the end of the recession in june, two thousand nine, are IN TEXAS

Some 37% of all net new American jobs since the recovery began were created in Texas.

Using Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) data, Dallas Fed economists looked at state-by-state employment changes since June 2009, when the recession ended. Texas added 265,300 net jobs, out of the 722,200 nationwide, and by far outpaced every other state. New York was second with 98,200, Pennsylvania added 93,000, and it falls off from there. Nine states created fewer than 10,000 jobs, while Maine, Hawaii, Delaware and Wyoming created fewer than 1,000. Eighteen states have lost jobs since the recovery began.
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Review & Outlook: The Lone Star Jobs Surge - WSJ.com
 
sangha said:
It's better than forgetting about reality so you can put words in other peoples' mouth

So how many hole digging jobs have you created? Maybe you should quit digging.
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I've got one for you anytime you need it. I'll even allow you to work from home.
 
washunut said:
I am not a right winger but am tired of the type of thinking expressed above. Would you care to define what you consider rich, then what you consider "fair share". Remember that taxes on upper bracket people are already legislated to rise about 4% in 2013 and other 4-5% as part of health care legislation in 2014. So that would being the top Federal rate to about 45%. On top of that state taxes in many places have risen this year with the top rate at about 8-10% for many. As we are looking at 10 year deficit plans it is probably fair to start with a top rate of 45% and say that is unfair and needs to be raised to X%.
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Taxes are not legislated to go up in 2013. The legislation that makes them go down expires in 2013. And the HCR bill contains no new income taxes. And I don't believe that "many places" are raising state income taxes.
 
Taylor said:
So you're saying we should forget theory, cross our fingers, and hope for the best in the midst of an anemic economy and historic debt crisis.

Noted.
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Nope. A theory must be tested. And when you reach the conclusion that there is no evidence to support it, you adjust the theory and not just hold on to it. The fact is there are far too many variables in an economy to reduce it to merely lowering taxes or spending on a stimulus. I would argue government has minor effect if any at all. Stimulus spending may temporarily keep some jobs, and it may put some people to work, but won't likley dramatically change the overriding factors of the economy. Nor will tax increases change these factors either. And minor tax increases won't effect anything either. So largely, the debate is more political than pragmatic. More posturing than substanitive.
 
Boo Radley said:
Nope. A theory must be tested. And when you reach the conclusion that there is no evidence to support it, you adjust the theory and not just hold on to it. The fact is there are far too many variables in an economy to reduce it to merely lowering taxes or spending on a stimulus. I would argue government has minor effect if any at all. Stimulus spending may temporarily keep some jobs, and it may put some people to work, but won't likley dramatically change the overriding factors of the economy. Nor will tax increases change these factors either. And minor tax increases won't effect anything either. So largely, the debate is more political than pragmatic. More posturing than substanitive.
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No, it's an emotional argument
The Amygdala Strain: Right-Wing Teabaggery as Psychological Pandemic « beeryblog
Now, take a guess what researchers have discovered about enlarged amygdalas and the link between enlarged amygdalas and a certain political bent. That’s right: researchers have found that conservatives have larger amygdalas than normal people. It’s been reported that

… research shows that people with conservative tendencies have a larger amygdala and a smaller anterior cingulate than other people. The amygdala—typically thought of as the “primitive brain”—is responsible for reflexive impulses, like fear. The anterior cingulate is thought to be responsible for courage and optimism. This one-two punch could be responsible for many of the anecdotal claims that conservatives “think differently” from others.
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Thunder said:
Right-wing extremists often accuse the Left and Democrats of trying to wage "class-warfare", by wanting to raise taxes on the wealthy by 3%. I now see this as a strawman.
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see my response to sandha which shows my view on this 3% strawman argument. I do not claim to be a right wing extremist so can't talk for whomever "they" are.

I think many are tiring of statements which have a sliver of truth but are mainly bull**** such as yours above.

Class warfare is talking about corporate jet deductions when what is really meant is the accelerated depreciation which companies get on all capital spending. Class warfare is the junk about oil company tax deductions when almost everyone agrees we need to get rid of a lot of deductions( loopholes) and lower our marginal corporate rate so we can better compete for jobs.

A true liberal would be fighting for concepts that get more of our people working, especially the unskilled who have been left along the side of the road on the path to globalism. B.S. rhetoric in the name of party only, caring less about the well being of the less well off is not a liberla stance at least to me.
 
cpwill said:
the one term Marxist president Obama telling the truth in a video about why he wants to increase tax rates on the rich...
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Awesome. He wants "fairness" even though revenues will go down. In his core he wants control and the redistribution of wealth. Or as Karl Marx might say, "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
 
washunut said:
see my response to sandha which shows my view on this 3% strawman argument. I do not claim to be a right wing extremist so can't talk for whomever "they" are.

I think many are tiring of statements which have a sliver of truth but are mainly bull**** such as yours above.

Class warfare is talking about corporate jet deductions when what is really meant is the accelerated depreciation which companies get on all capital spending. Class warfare is the junk about oil company tax deductions when almost everyone agrees we need to get rid of a lot of deductions( loopholes) and lower our marginal corporate rate so we can better compete for jobs.

A true liberal would be fighting for concepts that get more of our people working, especially the unskilled who have been left along the side of the road on the path to globalism. B.S. rhetoric in the name of party only, caring less about the well being of the less well off is not a liberla stance at least to me.
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Your response to me was filled with mistatements of facts
 
cpwill said:
aside from the fact that he obviously is blindsided by the question, i think one of my favorite parts is where he castigates George Bush for running up $4 Trillion in debt, says that that is undermining our economy, and says it's going to change once he's President.
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Yes. It was the hope and change we could believe it. It did change. The rate of borrowing and printing went way up.
 
sangha said:
Taxes are not legislated to go up in 2013. The legislation that makes them go down expires in 2013. And the HCR bill contains no new income taxes. And I don't believe that "many places" are raising state income taxes.
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There you go again. Call it what you will but tax rates go up in 2013, including on those in lower brackets. Yes there is a surcharge in the HC plan maybe you are calling it something else.

OK several states have raised taxes this year including the one I live in so that makes it problematic ( at least for me).
 
sangha said:
Your response to me was filled with mistatements of facts
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Tired of your nonsense. If you care to share what you call mistakes fine, if not also fine.
 
sangha said:
More nonsense. You have been reduced to posting nonsense about you paying people to dig holes because reality has abandoned your claims
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No really. If all we're concerned about is creating jobs for the sake of creating jobs, I can afford to pay lots of people a few cents a year for full time employment.
 
washunut said:
There you go again. Call it what you will but tax rates go up in 2013, including on those in lower brackets. Yes there is a surcharge in the HC plan maybe you are calling it something else.

OK several states have raised taxes this year including the one I live in so that makes it problematic ( at least for me).
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So now it's a "surcharge"? Whatever...it's not an income tax increase on the rich. And I still don't believe that several states are raising their income tax
 
Thunder said:
increased. govt. funding for infrastructure projects, creates jobs. LOTS of jobs.

building a new highway, bridge, tunnel, sewers, seawall, ect etc...means many more people are hired.
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Would you please provide one of those very pretty, but often meaningless graphs, to show just how many infrastructure jobs the one term Marxist president Obama's administration has created? And just for fun would you add one to show just how many well paying government busybody jobs he has also created over the same period of time?
 
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