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Energy Secretary Steven Chu defends light bulb standards as GOP seeks repeal

Deuce said:
Can you name one person who died from smoking? How do you know they wouldn't have developed lung cancer anyway?
If everyone stopped using incandescents and replaced them with more efficient bulbs, there'd be a lot less coal used in this country. Pollution from coal has health risks, which would be reduced. Coal mining has deaths involved, which would be reduced. CO2 emissions would be reduced, which would slow global warming, which would reduce the resulting crop stresses. Fewer people would starve.
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Our coal mining is miniscule compared to the Chinese. They already produce far more coal than us and just signed a joint agreement with Peabody Coal to increase production by 50 million tons per year.
 
Deuce said:
Can you name one person who died from smoking? How do you know they wouldn't have developed lung cancer anyway?
If everyone stopped using incandescents and replaced them with more efficient bulbs, there'd be a lot less coal used in this country. Pollution from coal has health risks, which would be reduced. Coal mining has deaths involved, which would be reduced. CO2 emissions would be reduced, which would slow global warming, which would reduce the resulting crop stresses. Fewer people would starve.
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Just as I thought. No evidence. Just more of "The sky is falling!"
 
Gill said:
No one claimed they are afraid of CFL bulbs, but feel free to continue your weak attempts at Straw Man fantasies.

I merely posted that peer reviewed papers refute Snopes. Since you put so much faith in peer review, I'm sure you will stop quoting Snopes as some kind of scientific proof.
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Your report basically came up with the same conclusions -

From your report - "The amount of liquid mercury (Hg) that leaches from a broken compact fluorescent lamp (CFL) is lower than the level allowed by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), so CFLs are not considered hazardous waste."

And if you do not use them at all there is zero chance of exposure. So if you are still worried about them, simply don't use them. What's so hard about that?

There are no requirements to use CFL's!
 
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Gill said:
Our coal mining is miniscule compared to the Chinese. They already produce far more coal than us and just signed a joint agreement with Peabody Coal to increase production by 50 million tons per year.
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So your thinking is that if China pollutes the air more than necessary, we should too???
 
LesGovt said:
A tad obtuse, but I understand it. Common sense has not been overly common for quite some time.
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Says the person who is equating Stalinism with the ability to buy an outdated, inefficient light bulb.
 
FilmFestGuy said:
Says the person who is equating Stalinism with the ability to buy an outdated, inefficient light bulb.
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Okay, I give up. Where did I mention Stalin, Stalinism, communism or even socialism?
 
FilmFestGuy said:
You did call it tyranny. Stalin was a tyrant.
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So were many other people. Tyrants can be left or right on the political spectrum. Your use of Stalinism was wrong and added absolutely nothing useful to the conversation.
 
LesGovt said:
So were many other people. Tyrants can be left or right on the political spectrum. Your use of Stalinism was wrong and added absolutely nothing useful to the conversation.
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Nor does calling a bill about improved light bulb efficiency tyranny while invoking a Mel Gibson-like call for FREEDOM as if you were prepared to go to war for a piece of wire in a glass case.
 
FilmFestGuy said:
Nor does calling a bill about improved light bulb efficiency tyranny while invoking a Mel Gibson-like call for FREEDOM as if you were prepared to go to war for a piece of wire in a glass case.
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Actually, Mel Gibson was not preparing to go to war when he said FREEDOM!!! He was preparing to die.

I posted a definition of tyranny earlier in this thread. I stand by my beliefs.
 
Misterveritis said:
By what authority does the federal government get involved in any decision I choose to make about how much water I will use, how much electricity I will use or anything else? This is tyranny. Nothing less.
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The govt should just charge us more for using more, whether it be water, electricity, gas, whatever....
Anybody exceeding a pre-determined average gets to pay higher rates for higher usage...
 
UtahBill said:
The govt should just charge us more for using more, whether it be water, electricity, gas, whatever....
Anybody exceeding a pre-determined average gets to pay higher rates for higher usage...
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You speak from a viewpoint of scarcity. Let's go the other way. Get out of the way of the free enterprise system and you can have all you want.
 
Misterveritis said:
You speak from a viewpoint of scarcity. Let's go the other way. Get out of the way of the free enterprise system and you can have all you want.
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The free enterprise system is a myth. Someone has to pay eventually for the inefficient ways we produce, transport, and use our energy resources.
"all we want" means the greedy can waste limited resources, and/or use to excess the dirty resources we have to the point that we pollute the air and water....is that what you want? We can have plenty of energy to use with out wasting it. Efficiencies make sense to most people, how about you?
 
LesGovt said:
Actually, Mel Gibson was not preparing to go to war when he said FREEDOM!!! He was preparing to die.

I posted a definition of tyranny earlier in this thread. I stand by my beliefs.
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If your definition of tyranny includes energy efficiency standards I don't know what the hell to tell you. It must suck to think every aspect of your life is already controlled tyrannically. My God man, the government even tells you that your car must have seat belts installed. The horror. Did you know that Big Government also decides what time it is? You're also legally prevented from selling people orange juice contaminated by lead... how awful.
 
Deuce said:
If your definition of tyranny includes energy efficiency standards I don't know what the hell to tell you. It must suck to think every aspect of your life is already controlled tyrannically. My God man, the government even tells you that your car must have seat belts installed. The horror. Did you know that Big Government also decides what time it is? You're also legally prevented from selling people orange juice contaminated by lead... how awful.
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I appreciate your sarcasm and certainly recognize it as such. Naturally, a definition of tyranny does not include the words energy or efficiency. If you do not know what it means, then please go back in the messages as I gave one. Thanks. Have a pleasant evening.
 
UtahBill said:
The free enterprise system is a myth.
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Don't tell me, wait! Let me guess...government school educated? I got it right?
UtahBill said:
Someone has to pay eventually for the inefficient ways we produce, transport, and use our energy resources.
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What? You pay for the things you want to use or own.
UtahBill said:
"all we want" means...
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Means all that we want. If you can afford it and you want it then go for it.
UtahBill said:
the greedy can waste limited resources,
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Most resources are limited by government intervention. Get the government out of the way and let the market provide whatever the market wants to buy.
UtahBill said:
and/or use to excess the dirty resources we have to the point that we pollute the air and water....is that what you want?
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What make you think that government induced scarcity is cleaner than market produced plenty?
UtahBill said:
We can have plenty of energy to use with out wasting it. Efficiencies make sense to most people, how about you?
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Efficiency or government induced scarcity? We ought to waste the least expensive resources and conserve the most expensive. Those will change over time unless the government gets involved. Market-created plenty is far preferred to government-induced scarcity for most people, how about you?
 
Misterveritis said:
Don't tell me, wait! Let me guess...government school educated? I got it right?

What? You pay for the things you want to use or own.

Means all that we want. If you can afford it and you want it then go for it.

Most resources are limited by government intervention. Get the government out of the way and let the market provide whatever the market wants to buy.

What make you think that government induced scarcity is cleaner than market produced plenty?

Efficiency or government induced scarcity? We ought to waste the least expensive resources and conserve the most expensive. Those will change over time unless the government gets involved. Market-created plenty is far preferred to government-induced scarcity for most people, how about you?
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I can't bring myself to drink the same koolaid you do....free markets don't exist, wall street is the new face of organized crime, and congress is complicit. OTOH, if congress didn't regulate business, then business would screw the ordinary folk just like they did when the robber barons were running this country.
I never said anything about scarcity, that is YOUR mantra....
Wasting the resources of the USA by itself is bad, but the pollution involved makes it worse.
The world you want will never exist. Sorry to be the one to educate you about this, but the trend is towards efficiencies. It has been for a long time. Results are seen in much cleaner air and water than just 40 years ago...
 
UtahBill said:
I can't bring myself to drink the same koolaid you do
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Clearly the kool-aid you are drinking is more, uh, statist. Got it.
UtahBill said:
....free markets don't exist,
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Granted. But they should. And they should be way more free than they are today.
UtahBill said:
wall street is the new face of organized crime,
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Uh-huh.
UtahBill said:
and congress is complicit.
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S. Clemens once wrote that the Congress is our only native criminal class ("It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress.")
UtahBill said:
OTOH, if congress didn't regulate business, then business would screw the ordinary folk just like they did when the robber barons were running this country.
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Nonsense. Who owns most businesses these days?
UtahBill said:
I never said anything about scarcity, that is YOUR mantra....
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You begin with a mindset of scarcity that must be managed by government. I begin with a mindset that the free market, unhindered by government, will give us all that we might ever want to purchase.
UtahBill said:
Wasting the resources of the USA by itself is bad,
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It depends on what you mean. We should waste the things that are cheap and conserve the things that are not. It is not bad at all. It is appropriate.
UtahBill said:
but the pollution involved makes it worse.
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What does pollution have to do with scarcity or plenty? Nothing, is the correct answer.
UtahBill said:
The world you want will never exist.
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"Some people see things as they are and say why? I dream things that never were and say why not?"
UtahBill said:
Sorry to be the one to educate you about this, but the trend is towards efficiencies.
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What does that have to do with government-induced scarcity?
UtahBill said:
It has been for a long time. Results are seen in much cleaner air and water than just 40 years ago...
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Do you believe the government's control of everything will help us find utopia?
 
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It isn't who owns the businesses, it is who runs them...and the fact that the law protects them from liability of thier misdeeds....
Govt control, no, govt involvement, yes...
right now govt only controls the ignorant masses, but the corporate world owns congress...
 
LesGovt said:
I appreciate your sarcasm and certainly recognize it as such. Naturally, a definition of tyranny does not include the words energy or efficiency. If you do not know what it means, then please go back in the messages as I gave one. Thanks. Have a pleasant evening.
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But this is what happened. Energy efficiency standards were set for lightbulbs. Some older technology incandescent bulbs can't meet this standard, but newer incandescent bulbs are able to and CFL/LED bulbs meet it easily.
 
Deuce said:
But this is what happened. Energy efficiency standards were set for lightbulbs. Some older technology incandescent bulbs can't meet this standard, but newer incandescent bulbs are able to and CFL/LED bulbs meet it easily.
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Yes, that is what the tyrants did.
 
Deuce said:
If your definition of tyranny includes energy efficiency standards I don't know what the hell to tell you. It must suck to think every aspect of your life is already controlled tyrannically. My God man, the government even tells you that your car must have seat belts installed. The horror. Did you know that Big Government also decides what time it is? You're also legally prevented from selling people orange juice contaminated by lead... how awful.
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Tyranny!!!
 
Okay, from now on we only use candles!
 
It seems saner heads prevailed.

Congressional negotiators struck a deal Thursday that overturns the new rules that were to have banned sales of traditional incandescent light bulbs beginning next year.

That agreement is tucked inside the massive 1,200-page spending bill that funds the government through the rest of this fiscal year, and which both houses of Congress will vote on Friday. Mr. Obama is expected to sign the bill, which heads off a looming government shutdown.


Congress overturns incandescent light bulb ban - Washington Times

Not a good day to be Jeffrey Immelt.
 
1Perry said:
It seems saner heads prevailed.

Congressional negotiators struck a deal Thursday that overturns the new rules that were to have banned sales of traditional incandescent light bulbs beginning next year.

That agreement is tucked inside the massive 1,200-page spending bill that funds the government through the rest of this fiscal year, and which both houses of Congress will vote on Friday. Mr. Obama is expected to sign the bill, which heads off a looming government shutdown.


Congress overturns incandescent light bulb ban - Washington Times

Not a good day to be Jeffrey Immelt.
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A win for the troglodytes at the expense of the environment that we all depend on. Yeah................???
 
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