• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Minnesota Loses AAA Rating on Budget Problems

my opinion is that the US won't risk default. our government may be partisan and petty, but it's not suicidal.

what will happen is that both sides will posture long enough to scare wall street. and that could have consequences.

If the govt hadn't gotten involved in spending for things it shouldn't (80 years ago), we wouldn't be in this mess. Entitlements were never part of what the Founders set up because they knew it doesn't work.

When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic? Ben Franklin

The principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale. Thomas Jefferson

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms (of government) those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny” Thomas Jefferson

We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debt, as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our calling and our creeds . . . we [will] have no time to think, no means of calling our miss-managers to account but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers. And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent . . . till the bulk of society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery. And the fore-horse of this frightful team is public debt. taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression. Thomas Jefferson
 
You might want to get with the progam. That's what they've had on the table all along. It's the party of No that's stuck on stupid.

We don't need to pay more taxes, we pay enough. The left is ALL ABOUT ENTITLEMENTS.
 
We don't need to pay more taxes, we pay enough. The left is ALL ABOUT ENTITLEMENTS.

This isn't about YOU paying more taxes! And as an aside, I'd be happy to pay more taxes if it would get us out of this mess. Do NOT presume to tell me what the left is all about. Not if it's going to be nothing but talking points and insults.
 
We don't need to pay more taxes, we pay enough. The left is ALL ABOUT ENTITLEMENTS.

You don't have the slightest idea what the left is all about. Stop letting Limbaugh tell you that.
 
I'm not sure how one figures that getting oneself even further into debt is the responsible action.

agreed. I am sick of the blowhards trying to paint up as down and wrong as right.
 
If the govt hadn't gotten involved in spending for things it shouldn't (80 years ago), we wouldn't be in this mess. Entitlements were never part of what the Founders set up because they knew it doesn't work.

so how would you reform entitlements?
 
Careful or you'll lose your Centrist rating by me. It's really tough to get on my centrist list, since you're the only one on it. You failed to support debt reduction measures when you said not raising the ceiling was irresponsible. That puts you squarely leaning left...not center. Don't believe me, keep an eye on who's "Liking" your posts.

Does anyone care what you think of them?

lol. American made a funny.
 
You failed to support debt reduction measures when you said not raising the ceiling was irresponsible.

My view remains that it would be ideal to couple the debt ceiling hike with credible fiscal consolidation. Unfortunately, my guess is that Washington will largely punt on the fiscal consolidation issue with savings in the $1 trillion - $2 trillion range (mostly from discretionary spending reductions) that will be backloaded. Without meaningful mandatory spending program reforms, the nation will essentially remain on an unsustainable fiscal trajectory.
 
My view remains that it would be ideal to couple the debt ceiling hike with credible fiscal consolidation. Unfortunately, my guess is that Washington will largely punt on the fiscal consolidation issue with savings in the $1 trillion - $2 trillion range (mostly from discretionary spending reductions) that will be backloaded. Without meaningful mandatory spending program reforms, the nation will essentially remain on an unsustainable fiscal trajectory.

I think you should change guess to guarantee. The GOP has directly come out against any real revenue increases and Pelosi just came out with no cuts to entitlements. We're just leapfrogging from one quick fix to the next, never addressing the real problems. It's inevitable with this kind of political leadership ranging from President to leaders of the Dems and GOP that we will never solve until we are one step from default, in which the cost to fix it will be exorbitantly high in the realm of Ryan cuts and Sanders tax hikes. The biggest problem with this country is its political two party system.
 
Mark my words, if we fail to raise the debt ceiling and the United States loses its AAA rating, the die hard right wingers will never acknowledge that the reason we did was the failure to raise the debt ceiling. They will be all be silent on the issue until Limbaugh tells them how its all because of some bill passed 30 years ago under Carter or some other nonsense.
 
Really? So NASA hasn't produced anything of wealth? So the entire nuclear industry isn't some form of wealth? So every major drug the NIH produced isn't a form of wealth? So everything that gets commercialized out of public universities isn't wealth?

Hint: It's time for you to vacate the thread.

No, NASA is a net loss. They did not, do not, and will not ever produce wealth. They will use taxpayer dollars to make things, but those "things" are always worth less than what they cost to create.

How many billions were spent on the space shuttle program, and when Atlantis hits the ground, that program will be over forever? By far NASA's biggest accomplishment was the shuttle and now they don't even have that. No, they produce nothing of wealth. But....they weren't designed to.

The post office is a better comparison as they take in income yet are so inefficient that they must keep raising the price of stamps well past the inflation rate. I know someone that works at the post office and has for 21 years. He said it's amazing a single letter gets to where it needs to go.
 
No, NASA is a net loss. They did not, do not, and will not ever produce wealth. They will use taxpayer dollars to make things, but those "things" are always worth less than what they cost to create.

I think you haven't accounted for the massive number of material advances, construction methods, and energy sources that NASA basically invented during the years for the space program that are being now utilized in the commercial sector.

How many billions were spent on the space shuttle program, and when Atlantis hits the ground, that program will be over forever? By far NASA's biggest accomplishment was the shuttle and now they don't even have that. No, they produce nothing of wealth. But....they weren't designed to.

NASA does far more then then shuttle.

NASA - I Use NASA Stuff Everyday
Curiosity "10 NASA Inventions You Might Use Every Day"
Space Age inventions you probably use - CNN
NASA Spinoffs - Inventions Benefiting Our Daily Lives - Apollo Spinoff Inventions

NASA, IMO was a cheap skunkworks.

The post office is a better comparison as they take in income yet are so inefficient that they must keep raising the price of stamps well past the inflation rate. I know someone that works at the post office and has for 21 years. He said it's amazing a single letter gets to where it needs to go.

Not at all. Your argument is one from a position that has not read the post office's financial.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...sg=AFQjCNEwoigEACwTQ-bRuspgfumgGtVSGA&cad=rja

Strip out their pension costs for the past 5 years. USPS has been making money in actual operations consistently. What's killing the post office is legacy costs. Otherwise, they are relatively efficient.
 

At the same time, it should be noted that if one strips away the gimmicks about to be deployed, the State's budget is not balanced. Instead, the illusion of balance is created from a combination of borrowing from the Tobacco Fund and from deferring some payments until the next fiscal year. Those are exactly the kind of gimmicks that were cited when the State's credit rating was cut. Hence, the credit rating will not be restored anytime soon and the impact of the reduced credit rating will be higher interest expense and a somewhat worse fiscal position.
 
Hopefully we're not still paying them, since they're not doing ****.
 
Back
Top Bottom