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Mexican national executed in Texas

Convicted in '94 and executed seventeen years later...god bless our appeals system.

But yeah, the argument against executing him is bull from top to bottom. You can't throw out a lower court ruling JUST because the President is working on changing the law to give domestic effect to a global treaty obligation, but hasn't even won legal here approval yet. If Congress wanted to prevent executions that supposedly "damaged" foreign policy concerns, the law would have been passed by now.

It's seven years since the World Court ruled that the U.S. was in violation of the Vienna Convention. Obviously, Congress did not think the foreign policy implications of executing foreign nationals were important enough to write a law, even though they had SEVEN DAMN YEARS to do it. It would be different if the man actually had a chance of overturning his conviction if he were to consult with the foreign consuls at this point... but he doesn't. The case is over. No one in Mexico is disputing his guilt.

If you want to pass the Vienna treaty, that's fine. But staying this guy's execution because of it? Senseless.
 
So much for Obama stopping it and its "irreparable harm".

You know, we could have done this properly, and still executed the slug. But the way we went about it, by breaking a treaty, means that the rights of no American overseas is going to be guaranteed now. This was an utterly stupid thing to do.
 
You know, we could have done this properly, and still executed the slug. But the way we went about it, by breaking a treaty, means that the rights of no American overseas is going to be guaranteed now. This was an utterly stupid thing to do.

We did do it properly. The treaty has not gone through Congress and the states, therefore you cannot throw out a court ruling on its behalf. There's nothing more to be said.

Any argument about foreign policy implications is nonsense. Congress had seven years to do it. Clearly, the implications are not grave.

The issue is what affect this has on the generally accepted principle that people arrested in a foreign country have the right to talk to a representative of their own country. Christ even Iran allows that.

Incorrect.

The issue is, do we postpone this particular man's execution because he was not given the right to speak with a Mexican consul?

And the answer is no. It wouldn't overturn his conviction, he's been in the country since he was two, and you can't toss out a court ruling for an international treaty that has not been ratified in Congress yet.

If you want to pass the treaty, that's fine. But you can't stay this execution just because the President is working on changing the law. That has far graver constitutional implications.
 
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But because we're America we can get away with it?

Big picture, people. Try looking at it once in a while.

I thought it was "profiling" if law enforcement looked into someone's nationality.
 
You know, we could have done this properly, and still executed the slug. But the way we went about it, by breaking a treaty, means that the rights of no American overseas is going to be guaranteed now. This was an utterly stupid thing to do.

Texas did the same thing in 08. Any Americans over seas suffering in countries that are not dictatorships and countries not hostile to Americans as a result as Texas giving the middle finger to globalist pieces of ****? Is that zip, zero, zilch, nada?
 
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You know, we could have done this properly, and still executed the slug. But the way we went about it, by breaking a treaty, means that the rights of no American overseas is going to be guaranteed now. This was an utterly stupid thing to do.

Which overseas countries are you particularly concerned about?

Civilized Western countries will provide justice while the rest will continue to deny the rights of all peoples, including their own, anyway.
 
Yeah its America's fault not the scum bag who should have been croaked in a much more painful fashion?

yes it is our nation's fault
our country agreed to the Vienna accords providing for counselor contact for aliens under criminal arrest/indictment
no matter how guilty he was of a heinous crime, we denied that due process to this alien
why would we now expect such access to American counsel being granted to American citizens in legal trouble while located in foreign lands
 
If an American citizen commits a crime in a foreign country, then they should get what they deserve.

In regard to the OP: I hope the bastard suffered, before he died.

and here is the problem
a shame i have to point it out to you

if the American citizen is INNOCENT in foreign country, he may not be able to access American counsel to get what he deserves - discharge from prison - because we chose not to honor our agreement to abide by he Vienna convention
 
Big picture is this guy got the justice he deserved. The fact that he was a Mexican national is tangential as best.

i disagree, with you
while he did get what he deserved
we failed to provide due process
that can potentially be damaging to us all
 
our soft hearted posters think that an American in another country with a valid visa is somehow the same as an illegal. If one of our citizens was an illegal in say Botswana and raped and murdered some girl I couldn't care less if he wasn't allowed to see our consul. On the other hand if someone is on a valid visa or entered lawfully that is different-which would have been the case with a Mexican with proper paperwork here in the states

I don't care what that POS did. He had right to Mexican consul like any foreign national. It really annoys me how so many conservatives claim to support the Constitution and all that it stands for. An attack on it is an attack on all of us, but if it has anything to do with the legal protections of a criminal, they would just as soon wipe their ass with the document. Scumbags have the same rights as all of us.
 
And the next time an American citizen arrested in a foreign country asks for access to the U.S. Consul, we shouldn't be too surprised if the answer they get back is ' why should we allow you this? Your country doesn't."

The issue isn't whether or not this piece of crap deserved to be executed. Of course he did.

The issue is what affect this has on the generally accepted principle that people arrested in a foreign country have the right to talk to a representative of their own country. Christ even Iran allows that.

But this is a big picture thing that is obviously far beyond the grasp of the Neanderthal Perry and his knee jerk supporters.

As I recall this murderer never asked for access.

The best way to avoid trouble in another country is don't go there.

Mexico for example. Only a damn fool would go there.

I invite all Liberals to tell us hoe their trip went, if they live thrught it. LOL just kidding all Liberals aren't fools.
 
I don't care what that POS did. He had right to Mexican consul like any foreign national. It really annoys me how so many conservatives claim to support the Constitution and all that it stands for. An attack on it is an attack on all of us, but if it has anything to do with the legal protections of a criminal, they would just as soon wipe their ass with the document. Scumbags have the same rights as all of us.

The right to contact a foreign consulate is in the Constitution?
 
Im ok with this. Stay out of hostile countries. Obey local laws. And if you don't and you're arrested, sorry about your bad luck.

Tell that to the thousands of journalists who are overseas, providing news coverage for you while you sit on your ass.
 
The right to contact a foreign consulate is in the Constitution?

We signed and ratified a treaty. The Constitution says that is the law of the land. It's not a loss of sovereignty as many would claim, because our government chose to ratify it. He was denied due process as he would need his foreign consulate. If you were in another country and denied your country's legal support, would you consider that a fair trial?
 
Tell that to the thousands of journalists who are overseas, providing news coverage for you while you sit on your ass.

This would be more winning if you had said service members. Journalists. LOL. Yes, I do truly feel safer with Anderson Cooper on the job.
 
This would be more winning if you had said service members. Journalists. LOL. Yes, I do truly feel safer with Anderson Cooper on the job.
I guess you don't care about Faux News' journalists at all.

Or US embassy workers.

Or the US commitments to the Vienna Convention.
 
We signed and ratified a treaty. The Constitution says that is the law of the land. It's not a loss of sovereignty as many would claim, because our government chose to ratify it. He was denied due process as he would need his foreign consulate. If you were in another country and denied your country's legal support, would you consider that a fair trial?

Well, his case has been up on appeal for the last 17 years. Obviously, they were all denied so I'm guessing our courts did't see this as being important enough to remand for a new trial.
 
and here is the problem
a shame i have to point it out to you

if the American citizen is INNOCENT in foreign country, he may not be able to access American counsel to get what he deserves - discharge from prison - because we chose not to honor our agreement to abide by he Vienna convention


I guess you don't care about Faux News' journalists at all.

Or US embassy workers.

Or the US commitments to the Vienna Convention.



Has this happened in a country that is not a dictatorship or in a country that is not hostile to Americans? Texas executed a scumbag on 08 who was denied his ability to see his consulate.
 
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yes it is our nation's fault
our country agreed to the Vienna accords providing for counselor contact for aliens under criminal arrest/indictment
no matter how guilty he was of a heinous crime, we denied that due process to this alien
why would we now expect such access to American counsel being granted to American citizens in legal trouble while located in foreign lands

His rights were not "denied". This is from the article.
The state argued that Leal -- who has lived in the United States since age 2 -- never revealed his Mexican citizenship at the time of arrest, and his defense team never raised the consular access issue at or before trial.
 
I guess you don't care about Faux News' journalists at all.

Or US embassy workers.

Or the US commitments to the Vienna Convention.

Vienna Convention? Embassy workers? This was a criminal case, not an invasion. What's funny is, he had more rights afforded to him here than he would have in Mexico (well, except for the right to live once the death sentence was carried out).
 
Has this happened in a country that is not a dictatorship or in a country that is not hostile to Americans? Texas executed a scumbag on 08 who was denied his ability to see his consulate.

No, because even those countries honor agreements they make. America on the other hand...
 
No, because even those countries honor agreements they make. America on the other hand...

So in other words you are just fear mongering.
 
Vienna Convention? Embassy workers? This was a criminal case, not an invasion. What's funny is, he had more rights afforded to him here than he would have in Mexico (well, except for the right to live once the death sentence was carried out).

What the hell does an invasion have to do with this? Non sequitur much?

Of course you choose to ignore the main points of my post and instead make a silly comparison on how we are not as bad as other countries.
 
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