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Outcry in America as pregnant women who lose babies face murder charges

PeteEU said:
So you are saying that the Taliban (who barely can read and write... and the women certainly cant) and the Iranians actively go after mothers who naturally abort and throw them in jail or have them executed? Seriously? In the Taliban case, how would they know that the woman uses drugs since only the husband is allowed near her! In the Iranian case, again how would they know since it is only the husband and near family that are allowed to talk to her....
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I was addressing the comparison you made originally. If a woman had a baby in Iran and they believed it was stillborn because of her drug addiction, I highly doubt she would get off easy. Throwing in your what-if additions to the scenario is like moving the goalposts. Choose a scenario and stick to it please.


PeteEU said:
Shows how much you know... if a woman is sentenced to death it is by stoning, not lashes.
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Actually stoning a woman to death is the punishment for adultery. In all other cases I believe they would hang her. I never implied it was “death by lashes”, I said 70 lashes.
 
GPS_Flex said:
I was addressing the comparison you made originally. If a woman had a baby in Iran and they believed it was stillborn because of her drug addiction, I highly doubt she would get off easy. Throwing in your what-if additions to the scenario is like moving the goalposts. Choose a scenario and stick to it please.



Actually stoning a woman to death is the punishment for adultery. In all other cases I believe they would hang her. I never implied it was “death by lashes”, I said 70 lashes.
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It actually does not matter what happens elsewhere - the way the legislation is being enacted is obscene
 
MistressNomad said:
Apparently you didn't read it very thoroughly. It talked about several different cases. One where the woman used cocaine, one where she attempted suicide, and one where she didn't do anything harmful at all.
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Wrong again. 2 of the women were accused of using drugs and the suicide attempt used rat poison.

It helps to get the facts straight before saying they were all innocent and didn’t do anything wrong.
 
GPS_Flex said:
Wrong again. 2 of the women were accused of using drugs and the suicide attempt used rat poison.

It helps to get the facts straight before saying they were all innocent and didn’t do anything wrong.
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Yes, and the second who was accused of drug abuse with NO evidence at all. It is a completely baseless accusation.

It helps to read the article before you claim to know the facts.
 
MistressNomad said:
Yes, and the second who was accused of drug abuse with NO evidence at all. It is a completely baseless accusation.

It helps to read the article before you claim to know the facts.
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You said she did nothing wrong but the police say she did. You misrepresented what the article said.
 
Okay... lets give an example...

Michele Bachmann had a miss-carriage in 2008. She travels a lot because she is a politician, hence she is irresponsible because she knew she was with child and doing too much can put the child at risk. The constant flying (pressure changes) can have a negative impact on the baby.. and so on and so on... Did she sip some wine or eat some hot food?

I demand an investigation and just to make sure that she does not harm her children, then she should be thrown in jail during the investigation!
 
GPS_Flex said:
You said she did nothing wrong but the police say she did. You misrepresented what the article said.
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The police also said that DSK raped that illegal prostitute cleaning lady in NY... look where that went.. The police are not always right... far from it.
 
GPS_Flex said:
You said she did nothing wrong but the police say she did. You misrepresented what the article said.
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Yes, they did say that, and they have so little evidence they couldn't even pick a substance. The accusation was also made 6 months after the still birth. Way after there would be any new physical evidence to take into account.

What's it going to be? Did she drink too much coffee?
 
An arrest ≠ a conviction.
 
GPS_Flex said:
I was addressing the comparison you made originally. If a woman had a baby in Iran and they believed it was stillborn because of her drug addiction, I highly doubt she would get off easy. Throwing in your what-if additions to the scenario is like moving the goalposts. Choose a scenario and stick to it please.
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Yes, and the chances a woman in Iran has access to drugs compared to the US is... so the chances that the situation even occurs in Iran is considerably lower right? I would suspect there is a greater chance of a woman being executed for adultery than fetal murder..

Actually stoning a woman to death is the punishment for adultery. In all other cases I believe they would hang her. I never implied it was “death by lashes”, I said 70 lashes.
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You are correct.. unless adultery was involved.. but again we are back to the chances of it happening in the first place.
 
MistressNomad said:
Yes, they did say that, and they have so little evidence they couldn't even pick a substance. The accusation was also made 6 months after the still birth. Way after there would be any new physical evidence to take into account.

What's it going to be? Did she drink too much coffee?
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Look, the women were charged for allegedly doing something to harm the fetus. I have no idea whether they are completely innocent or guilty as charged but I do know that you were making it sound like they were simply being charged with murder for having a miscarriage.
 
Tashah said:
An arrest ≠ a conviction.
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True, but the debate is worthless if we pretend they were all innocent and they are being arrested for having birth defects or stillborns alone.
 
GPS_Flex said:
Look, the women were charged for allegedly doing something to harm the fetus. I have no idea whether they are completely innocent or guilty as charged but I do know that you were making it sound like they were simply being charged with murder for having a miscarriage.
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Well, she is. There's no evidence of anything. They're more or less saying "we don't know what you did, but we bet you did something!"

In another they basically charged someone with the offense of having an illness that threatens to be terminal (that's what suicide is - the terminal outcome of severe, untreated mental illness). Attempting suicide is not "negligent" or "abusive." It's a sign of someone who is profoundly sick.
 
I applaud Mississippi, Alabama and Indiana for treating their baby-making penis-receptacles as well as they do.

(I expected less of them.)
 
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MistressNomad said:
Well, she is. There's no evidence of anything. They're more or less saying "we don't know what you did, but we bet you did something!"

In another they basically charged someone with the offense of having an illness that threatens to be terminal (that's what suicide is - the terminal outcome of severe, untreated mental illness). Attempting suicide is not "negligent" or "abusive." It's a sign of someone who is profoundly sick.
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If a woman does drugs that are known to harm the fetus, would you agree that she should, of her own choosing, go get an abortion rather than carrying the baby to term?

Also, if a newlywed couple plans to have a baby and a criminal punches the woman in the stomach, causing a miscarriage, should the loss of the baby be considered a crime?
 
GPS_Flex said:
If a woman does drugs that are known to harm the fetus, would you agree that she should, of her own choosing, go get an abortion rather than carrying the baby to term?

Also, if a newlywed couple plans to have a baby and a criminal punches the woman in the stomach, causing a miscarriage, should the loss of the baby be considered a crime?
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Yes, I would agree.

Yes, and that is covered by grievous bodily harm.
 
GPS_Flex said:
So the loss of the baby carries no additional criminal charges.
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Nope. Well, it does in some places, but I don't believe it should. Existing law is plenty. Grievous bodily harm can carry very heavy sentences.
 
MistressNomad said:
Nope. Well, it does in some places, but I don't believe it should. Existing law is plenty. Grievous bodily harm can carry very heavy sentences.
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At least you are consistent. I would have to disagree with you though. While I do support limited abortion rights, I draw the line at late term abortions and I think the fetus should have all the rights and protections under the law that those of us who were born alive have in situations where the mother plans to give birth to the child.
 
GPS_Flex said:
True, but the debate is worthless if we pretend they were all innocent and they are being arrested for having birth defects or stillborns alone.
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They are considered innocent until a conviction is obtained. This is all pretty much parlor conjecture until the verdicts are rendered.
 
I also think that the father shouldn’t be forced to pay child support if he has no say in whether the mother aborts or not.
 
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