• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Federal judge blocks Georgia immigration law

deltabtry said:
The Tenth Amendment explicitly states the Constitution's principle of federalism by providing that powers not granted to the federal government nor prohibited to the states by the Constitution are reserved, respectively, to the states or the people.
Click to expand...

And immigration law is granted to the federal government :)
 
1Perry said:
And yet you did nothing to refute my reasoning.
Click to expand...

Reasoning? I posted a link to a story about the labor shortage and you said, "I don't believe it." You call that reasoning?

I didn't specify parolee and probationers but I do have some experience there and I know there are some that will indeed work these type of jobs to work off fines.
Click to expand...

I specified parolees and probationers. They have tried and very few of them last more than a day. Farm labor sucks! You are not going to get welfare recipients to do this job either. Many of them are not fit enough to do it even if they wanted to and you can bet they damn sure don't.
 
RStringfield said:
Reasoning? I posted a link to a story about the labor shortage and you said, "I don't believe it." You call that reasoning?



I specified parolees and probationers. They have tried and very few of them last more than a day. Farm labor sucks! You are not going to get welfare recipients to do this job either. Many of them are not fit enough to do it even if they wanted to and you can bet they damn sure don't.
Click to expand...

parolees and probationers. .. seems simple enough .. work these jobs or go back to jail for violating your probation or parole For those one welfare .. reduce their benefits for each day of missed worked ..
doesn't seem all that complicated to me.
 
The Barbarian said:
parolees and probationers. .. seems simple enough .. work these jobs or go back to jail for violating your probation or parole For those one welfare .. reduce their benefits for each day of missed worked ..
doesn't seem all that complicated to me.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I remember that as part of the argument for stopping illegal immigration. You did not say, they are taking jobs Americans could be doing! You said, they are taking jobs we could force parolee and probationers to do. Virtual slavery and other great things could happen if we just get rid of the Mexi, uhh, illegal immigrants. But no, many of the parolee and probationers would rather go to jail.
 
Gargantuan said:
And immigration law is granted to the federal government :)
Click to expand...
of course it is, but like I said the feds refuse to enforce the law which it is duly charge with doing so therefor the states can enforce federal law, write a new law applicable to the state etc.
 
Gargantuan said:
And immigration law is granted to the federal government :)
Click to expand...

"ICE, however, has limited resources to remove those illegally in the United States.,,,Because the agency is confronted with more administrative violations than its resources can address, the agency must regularly exercise "prosecutorial discretion" ifit is to prioritize its efforts"
http://www.ice.gov/doclib/secure-communities/pdf/prosecutorial-discretion-memo.pdf

So when are the Feds going to wake up and ask the States for assistance? To keep claiming its "our" ie Feds job, but we are going to enforce only those parts we see fit, is letting the public down. So maybe the States should start suing the feds for not carrying out their duties. Or as stated, demand the federal law be changed to give States more authority.
 
Last edited:
Because states do not have the proper training to deal with illegal immigrants. That's why you hear about racial profiling, etc.
 
Gargantuan said:
Because states do not have the proper training to deal with illegal immigrants. That's why you hear about racial profiling, etc.
Click to expand...

Not true. Many LE in Az have been trained by ICE. Do you feel ICE (feds) are doing a good job in controlling immigration (legal and illegal?. Do you think the Feds should partner more with State LE on immigration?

As far as profiling, imo thats a pc stance.
 
As long as they have a working visa I dont see the problem. Any mexicans I see working fields have working visas. Laws have been created the past few years that makes sure they have to have them to work here.
 
mike2810 said:
"ICE, however, has limited resources to remove those illegally in the United States.,,,Because the agency is confronted with more administrative violations than its resources can address, the agency must regularly exercise "prosecutorial discretion" ifit is to prioritize its efforts"
http://www.ice.gov/doclib/secure-communities/pdf/prosecutorial-discretion-memo.pdf

So when are the Feds going to wake up and ask the States for assistance? To keep claiming its "our" ie Feds job, but we are going to enforce only those parts we see fit, is letting the public down. So maybe the States should start suing the feds for not carrying out their duties. Or as stated, demand the federal law be changed to give States more authority.
Click to expand...

As I hinted at earlier, the courts will allow state action in this area if the states can make a compelling argument that the Feds have not occupied the field. I don't think any honest person can say that that argument is completely without merit.
 
RStringfield said:
As I hinted at earlier, the courts will allow state action in this area if the states can make a compelling argument that the Feds have not occupied the field. I don't think any honest person can say that that argument is completely without merit.
Click to expand...

If "not occupied the field" means that they have done diddly squat about illegal immigration, then anyone who has been awake knows that they haven't "occupied the field" in about sixty years now. It's time someone did something more than point fingers at the other party and rant about how we need to fence the southern border.

Or, how we need to pass amnesty. That worked ever so well back in the '80s.
 
Dittohead not! said:
If "not occupied the field" means that they have done diddly squat about illegal immigration, then anyone who has been awake knows that they haven't "occupied the field" in about sixty years now. It's time someone did something more than point fingers at the other party and rant about how we need to fence the southern border.

Or, how we need to pass amnesty. That worked ever so well back in the '80s.
Click to expand...

Occupy the field means they have taken action and have a comprehensive and pervasive plan. But that could mean the plan calls for open an easy immigration. It does not mean they have to stop immigration, but they have to state their position and act to achieve those goals.

You can certainly argue that by not doing anything to stop an act that they have made illegal by law that they have abandoned the field.
 
RStringfield said:
Occupy the field means they have taken action and have a comprehensive and pervasive plan. But that could mean the plan calls for open an easy immigration. It does not mean they have to stop immigration, but they have to state their position and act to achieve those goals.

You can certainly argue that by not doing anything to stop an act that they have made illegal by law that they have abandoned the field.
Click to expand...

They did pass laws, and "diddly squat" is generous when describing the actions taken to end illegal immigration.
 
RStringfield said:
Georgia is having lots of trouble due to the shortage of farm workers.

Farmers tie labor shortage to state's new immigration law, ask for help *| ajc.com
Click to expand...

If farmers are having a labor shortage its because of two things. First is that farmers are not petitioning for work visas(Potential employees can not petition for agricultural/H2A visas, the employer must do this.). The second is that farmers are not paying a adequate(supply verses demand dictates that wages need to be much higher if they are having a hard time getting legal workers) wage to hire farm workers.

Besides that it is illegal to hire illegals. Its like complaining that the drug dealer can't find any crack to sell or any junkies to buy their **** or whining because cops keep arresting them for selling drugs.
 
Last edited:
When a judge does this without regard for the facts it really pisses me off.

In this case Obama and those he controls are not enforcing the Laws on the books and because of that, every damn one of them is in violation of their oath of office by ignoring Article 4 Section 4 of the Constitution which clearly says in plain English:
The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence.
Click to expand...
They all need to be removed from office because the numbers of illgal aliens invading out Nation is over 100,000 a year and some are Islamic.
 
Last edited:
You got that right. Hamas and Hezbollah agents are crossing, and they are not coming to pick onions.
 
mike2810 said:
Not true. Many LE in Az have been trained by ICE. Do you feel ICE (feds) are doing a good job in controlling immigration (legal and illegal?. Do you think the Feds should partner more with State LE on immigration?

As far as profiling, imo thats a pc stance.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, as per INA 287g, states need to be trained and approved to conduct immigration enforcement business from the federal government. The approval doesn't come from ICE but from (I believe) DOJ, and by creating their own laws they are unfortunately in violation of that.
 
The republicans cant act tough on the illegal immigration problem because they will be painted (even more) as racist. The democrats dont want to act on illegal immigration because they are dependent on the minority vote and ultimately WANT more voters. Several years ago the fed ivested BILLIONS in training STATE law enforcement to act on federal law in fighting illegal immigration. Now they claim its not their role. Its only not their role because they dont want the laws enforced in any way shape or form. Feds play games for votes and the states suffer alone with having to deal with the problem.
 
Gargantuan said:
Federal judge grants request to block parts of Georgia immigration law from taking effect - The Washington Post



As I predicted, these state laws that try to let state/local officers enforce federal law will be shot down. Slowly but surely...
Click to expand...

I think part of the reason for trying to pass some of these laws is to publicize how pathetic the Federal government has been in enforcing the laws. A lot of people when they read "enforcing immigration law that should be left to the federal goverment" really get pissed off" I am one of those. So let the states fight it out with the fed and make them look like total a failure in their duties to the citizens. I hope it will cause some of them to get voted from office.
 
I'm sick of hearing this "failure on the part of the federal government" bull****. ICE doesn't have the resources to go after every single alien in this country. That's why the agency is focused on criminal aliens. Look at the secure communities program. That has shown excellent results.
 
Gargantuan said:
I'm sick of hearing this "failure on the part of the federal government" bull****. ICE doesn't have the resources to go after every single alien in this country. That's why the agency is focused on criminal aliens. Look at the secure communities program. That has shown excellent results.
Click to expand...

ICE spent billions training state agents to go after illegal immigrants. Apparently they believe it IS the states jobs to help enforce illegal immigration laws. And just where do you get the notion it is NOT their job to go after illegal immigrants? Seems to me that focusing on CRIMINAL behavior is the job of local law enforcement agencies. maybe ICE should do THEIR job and the state wouldnt have to.
 
Gargantuan said:
I'm sick of hearing this "failure on the part of the federal government" bull****. ICE doesn't have the resources to go after every single alien in this country. That's why the agency is focused on criminal aliens. Look at the secure communities program. That has shown excellent results.
Click to expand...

Arizona is happy to round them up and hand them over. Not a lot of expense there.
 
Gargantuan said:
I'm sick of hearing this "failure on the part of the federal government" bull****. ICE doesn't have the resources to go after every single alien in this country. That's why the agency is focused on criminal aliens. Look at the secure communities program. That has shown excellent results.
Click to expand...

If the Feds do not believe the laws are worth enforcing then they have an obligation to change them. By simply failing to enforce the laws they have abandoned the field and left it to the states.
 
Feds can't even make up their own minds... AZ gets sued for wanting to ask for ID during police contact, but some sanctuary city in CA gets slammed by the Feds for wanting to refuse to cross check people with ICE. Come on.... REALLY?????? With direct contradictions like this, we trust anything they say about illegal immigration... WHY????
 
VanceMack said:
ICE spent billions training state agents to go after illegal immigrants. Apparently they believe it IS the states jobs to help enforce illegal immigration laws. And just where do you get the notion it is NOT their job to go after illegal immigrants? Seems to me that focusing on CRIMINAL behavior is the job of local law enforcement agencies. maybe ICE should do THEIR job and the state wouldnt have to.
Click to expand...

Because for the 10th time now, the billions they were trained with is part of a legal cooperation with 287g. They do not want to comply with 287g and are instead creating their own laws and trying to enforce immigration law. And again, it is not their job. Please review titles 8, 19, and even 50 if you'd like of the US Code. US code = enforced by federal law enforcement. And an alien just living here is not a criminal... I really don't want to get into this again. But the reason they are not prosecuted as criminals is you cannot prove the specific part of the border an alien crossed at to prove in a court of law that the alien violated 1325, which is the criminal statute, so instead civil penalties which ultimately culminate in voluntary deportation are what happens to an Alien found anywhere else other than the border (and even if they are found at the border, they are instead once again just sent back... the US attorney/federal court system cannot handle prosecuting every single alien)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom