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TSA stands by officers after pat-down of elderly woman in Florida

Ikari said:
I don't know. They used a little kid somewhere else, so now we have to pat down little kids else the terrorists are going to take advantage of it? That doesn't sound really hysterical to you? It does to me.
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If they use a kid somewhere (doesn't matter where) it shows that they are willing to use kids period. There is absolutely no reason to think that they wouldn't use them here.
 
Kal'Stang said:
I would rather they went to full body scans myself. But it doesn't matter. People will holler about invasions of privacy no matter what the TSA does. Well..almost...I'm sure if they just got disbanded and we had no security at airports people would be happy...until the next 9/11 anyways. Then they'd blame the government for failing to stop it. Complete with conspiracies about the government being in cahoots with the terrorists.
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This is a completely stupid argument. Terrorist attacks have historically been very low, so the probabilities are not high that any given flight will suffer. Though given enough time, you'll see the probability work out since it's non-zero, and always will be non-zero. No one who suggests that TSA is too invasive and should be restricted is saying that there shouldn't be any security. That's dishonest argument at best. There always has been and always will be some measure of security at airports. We had security before we had TSA. We can continue to have security without the current invasive techniques and technologies employed by TSA.

If you want to argue against a point, fine. But stupid, dishonest arguments like what you posted which are rife with hyperbole and hysteria are not going to do anything to promote the debate.
 
Kal'Stang said:
If they use a kid somewhere (doesn't matter where) it shows that they are willing to use kids period. There is absolutely no reason to think that they wouldn't use them here.
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Nothing like supposition, assumption, and emotionalized reaction to authorize expansion of government, eh?
 
Zyphlin said:
Well, 6 posts to get to idiotic over the top hyperbole in a TSA thread. Perhaps we're actually improving. Usually the ridiculousness and exaggeration only takes what, 3 pots?

The person followed procedures. Yes, the procedure needs to give more leeway on the part of the screeners to use their judgement in these kind of situations. At the same time, as you do that you then have people who then that the "judgement" is being employed unfairly or unevenly causing another big hubub. The TSA is right in defending their person, as they were simply following orders. There's nothing wrong with critizicing the procedure, but the more over the top idiotic hyperbole people use frankly the more childish and ridiculous their argument looks and the less serious anyone should take them.
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And I thought these guys were grannie-porn lovers looking for real-life opportunities. :mrgreen:
 
Ikari said:
Nothing like supposition, assumption, and emotionalized reaction to authorize expansion of government, eh?
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Nothing like complacency to get people killed eh? Sorry if you don't like that 2+2=4.
 
I'm curious, have these pat downs ever discovered any terrorist activity? Did the body scans ever find anything? Did any of those "random" screenings in airports ever uncover weapons or bombs or anything of the sort? Did anything fishy even ever come to light from someone answering "did you pack your bags yourself" with a "no"? Why are we even considering defending all this screening and abuse of privacy? It hasn't helped. At all. Ever.

And don't try to say that the searches discourage terrorists from bringing weapons and bombs onto airplanes. The airplane thing is done. It didn't do what they wanted, and now it's old news. Besides, drug smugglers manage to sneak their little packages onboard all the time. All of this groping and fear mongering has not saved a single life.
 
It has helped. You just don't know what they have found. TSA has commented numerous times on people asking what they have caught and they have not shared because it is infact a matter of national security and not something that can be shared. If they go out and start sharing what methods they have used to find certain devices/compounds/terror suspects, then that's not going to be quite productive, is it? TSA also stops people who are on the TSC's list all the time. The media calls it the "No fly list".

Also, there are people like they have in Israel in our airports, but they are in extremely low numbers and in something like 50-100 airports nationwide... again showing that we simply do not have the manpower to do what they do to cover all our airports. If any of the younger members on here is looking for a career to pursue, be a BDO.
 
Gargantuan said:
These are their procedures. The daughter even said herself in the interview I understand these are their procedures. Again, is this the best way to run airport security? No, it isn't. Israel's way of interviewing people and profiling (not racially profiling, but actually looking at people and saying, OK, this guy needs some extra screening, then talking to them, you can find a NY Daily News article where the guy, a white christian, says he gets put in the extra interview all the time) works great, but unfortunately that isn't applicable to the US, where thousands of flights go everyday. Israel has what? 50? This is the best solution we have in our current situation. You can all flip out and this will get its 15 minutes of fame tomorrow with all the "**** tsa man mah rights is violated kill tyrannical government" but in the end, this is how things are done.
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You're living in a dreamworld if you think the Israelis don't take physical features into their profiling process.
 
Gargantuan said:
It has helped. You just don't know what they have found. TSA has commented numerous times on people asking what they have caught and they have not shared because it is infact a matter of national security and not something that can be shared. If they go out and start sharing what methods they have used to find certain devices/compounds/terror suspects, then that's not going to be quite productive, is it? TSA also stops people who are on the TSC's list all the time. The media calls it the "No fly list".

Also, there are people like they have in Israel in our airports, but they are in extremely low numbers and in something like 50-100 airports nationwide... again showing that we simply do not have the manpower to do what they do to cover all our airports. If any of the younger members on here is looking for a career to pursue, be a BDO.
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Actually we do have a clue...there have been something like 400 people arrested due to these screeings...very few prosecuted and of the ones that were something like 30% of those people were prosecuted for being illegal immigrants. Some were found with illegal weapons. None connected with thoughts plans or intent to commit a terrorist act. I read those stats earlier today...I'll try to find them again.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Any Arab that passes through thier checkpoints get greater scrutiny than a jewish person.
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I would suggest that the Israeli's profile against anyone who is not an Israeli.
 
apdst said:
You're living in a dreamworld if you think the Israelis don't take physical features into their profiling process.
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No I'm not. You're living in a dreamworld if you think profiling arabs is a good way to secure an airport. Like I have said 100x in this thread and the other one, most terrorists are not, infact, Muslim. Do they profile people who aren't Israeli more? Sure, like the Daily News reporter said, he is a white Christian, and he gets taken out and given extra screening all the time. But is the bigoted right wing way of "Profile all arabs" the solution? No, and I've explained why 100 times.

Vance, a lot are illegal aliens, that is correct. And many illegal aliens are infact associated with terrorism. Illegal weapons are also a big one.

And again, they have infact caught people associated with terrorism and people on the TSC list. They do not disclose the people they caught nor what set off their capture. They aren't going to make a press release saying "Caught terror suspect today, was trying to bring X compound onto a plane and mix it with X household object to cause an explosion, glad we got him! You terrorists who try to use X compound again with X household object better not use them, so bring another one that's not yet in our system!"
 
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Gargantuan said:
Try to bring a dangerous weapon on board a plane... I'd like to see what happens to you.

No vance, you don't do that. But the point is - if you can save even one life by doing this, why do you have a problem with it? If going through a little inconviencne at the airport could save the life of an entire airplane, even if an attack will happen once a year, why do you have such an issue?

As for the old women, here's one article from a quick google search: Tag: old woman drug smuggling - Rynski's Blogski

I hear about it all the time from the IEAs who work near the borders though. They have these old women doing these things because they think no one will search them, like some of you would like.
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I have this cool little wallet credit card sized survival tool my grandkids got for me one year..

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I travelled with it for a year and a half. Considering connecting flights, Id say conservatively I flew on probably close to 30 planes during that year and a half. When i realized it, I had just left the luggage area on my home leg. I went to the TSA counter to make them aware of it. i STRESSED...I was not being a smart ass...just realized what i had done and that their screenings were missing this.

A razor blade taped to the metal case of a hard drive or the hard case of a laptop can be fashioned into the same types of weapons used by the terrorists in 9-11. Thats all im saying.
 
Ockham said:
I would suggest that the Israeli's profile against anyone who is not an Israeli.
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They profile against anyone that isn't a "stereotypical jewish" looking Israeli it seems, as it appears they even profile their arab sounding/looking Israeli's.

I do find it funny that those who complain that TSA is an unreasonable search because its presuming you're guilty then turn around and go "What we should be doing is presuming all ARABS as being guilty and search just them".

The wonderful stereotypical republican of America today..."We don't care about rights being violated, as long as its not OUR rights".
 
Gargantuan said:
Try to bring a dangerous weapon on board a plane... I'd like to see what happens to you.

No vance, you don't do that. But the point is - if you can save even one life by doing this, why do you have a problem with it? If going through a little inconviencne at the airport could save the life of an entire airplane, even if an attack will happen once a year, why do you have such an issue?

As for the old women, here's one article from a quick google search: Tag: old woman drug smuggling - Rynski's Blogski

I hear about it all the time from the IEAs who work near the borders though. They have these old women doing these things because they think no one will search them, like some of you would like.
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TSA is not in the crime and law enforcement business. Their job is to make flying 'more safe'. Meanwhile TSA agents and baggage handlers with full access to every part of the airport go unscreened daily.
 
VanceMack said:
TSA is not in the crime and law enforcement business. Their job is to make flying 'more safe'. Meanwhile TSA agents and baggage handlers with full access to every part of the airport go unscreened daily.
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Kind of true... I was at JFK a few months ago and there was a wide open door leading past the security checkpoints and I identified myself and said one of you guys aught to close that and they all went scurrying over and closed it. Are they the smartest people? Of course not. But again, this is the best we can do. We don't have enough BDOs in America to be in every single airport in huge numbers.
 
Gargantuan said:
No I'm not. You're living in a dreamworld if you think profiling arabs is a good way to secure an airport. Like I have said 100x in this thread and the other one, most terrorists are not, infact, Muslim. Do they profile people who aren't Israeli more? Sure, like the Daily News reporter said, he is a white Christian, and he gets taken out and given extra screening all the time. But is the bigoted right wing way of "Profile all arabs" the solution? No, and I've explained why 100 times.

Vance, a lot are illegal aliens, that is correct. And many illegal aliens are infact associated with terrorism. Illegal weapons are also a big one.

And again, they have infact caught people associated with terrorism and people on the TSC list. They do not disclose the people they caught nor what set off their capture. They aren't going to make a press release saying "Caught terror suspect today, was trying to bring X compound onto a plane and mix it with X household object to cause an explosion, glad we got him! You terrorists who try to use X compound again with X household object better not use them, so bring another one that's not yet in our system!"
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So, strip searching a 95 y/o diaper wearing grandma is? Right!
 
Yes. As per procedure. As zyphillin said, it's OK to profile Arabs (which again wouldn't be a good way to secure an airport) but it's not OK to search white women and kids. Keep on truckin' GOP!
 
apdst said:
So, strip searching a 95 y/o diaper wearing grandma is? Right!
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This anti-profile attitude is wasting tax dollars. It's called appeasement. It's called not calling it what it is. It's called willful dishonesty.
 
Who says she's a grandma? What if this daughter has no kids? Just sayin'.
 
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