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Poll: 44% of Americans Worse Off Under Obama

Whovian said:
What you fail to understand, is that Obama was, and may still be, convinced that his policy decisions and programs (Stimulus, etc.) should have gotten the economy humming.

They didn't.
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I've mentioned this elsewhere. I know the word "stimulus" has a pretty bad rap right now in our current political discourse, but if you look at history, fiscal stimulus actually has a pretty good track record.

I think the problem with Obama's stimulus is that it was nowhere near large enough to fix the size of the problem it was meant to solve. On the flip side, for it to have been even larger would have been politically unfeasible.

As my economics professors (both liberal and conservative) like to say...good economics =/= good politics, and vice versa.
 
Whovian said:
What you fail to understand, is that Obama was, and may still be, convinced that his policy decisions and programs (Stimulus, etc.) should have gotten the economy humming.

They didn't.
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Don't know whether they did or didn't. As long as I've been alive Presidents have spun the positive message. I believe they do this in part to help us with confidence (which is needed) and to be able to take credit if they get lucky and it happens. They know they get the blame, deserved or not, if it doesn't. But at least they can get credit if it happens to improve.

I think those who believe government can fix the economy feed the government is the answer mentality. I find it odd that as many republicans as democrats favor the government fixing it. So much for any real difference between the two. ;)
 
Whovian said:
Poll: 44% of Americans Worse Off Under Obama - Bloomberg

your thoughts???
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It seems that Republicans are winning the messaging war, as usual. Unfortunately for the country, the Republicans look at the faultering economy with greedy eyes, and they have no intention of doing anything to help revive the economy until they win back the White House. They have been trying to sabotage any efforts to help the economy since Obama was elected, and proof of that is the number of bills that Republicans have backed or sponsored that would have gone towards helping the economy: zero. Their duplicity is transparent, as are their souls.
 
StillBallin75 said:
I've mentioned this elsewhere. I know the word "stimulus" has a pretty bad rap right now in our current political discourse, but if you look at history, fiscal stimulus actually has a pretty good track record.

I think the problem with Obama's stimulus is that it was nowhere near large enough to fix the size of the problem it was meant to solve. On the flip side, for it to have been even larger would have been politically unfeasible.

As my economics professors (both liberal and conservative) like to say...good economics =/= good politics, and vice versa.
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That is what a good many claimed from the begining.
 
One cannot properly evaluate the Obama term unless one considers what he started with on the day he took over.

When George Bush entered office in Jan of 2001, the unemployment rate was 4.2%.
When he left in Jan of 2009, it was 7.6%.
That is an increase of 81%.

When Barack Obama entered office in Jan of 2009, the unemployment rate was 7.6%.
The latest figure for this May was 9.1%.
That is an increase of 19%

The rate of unemployment grown under Bush was over 400% higher than the rate of unemployment growth under Obama. That is improvement and great improvement.

Obama may not have a winning record in the minds of some, but he is like the baseball manager who took over a team which had lost 121 games in the previous year and now he has cut it to only losing 91 during his first season. Its not the World Series, but its light years better that the preceeding manager.
 
I know this is hard for mindless ideologues to grasp...but...well...here goes...

When you apply for a job you make the statement "I can do the job". You are hired with the expectation to then "do the job." Your employer doesnt tolerate "well...dangit...the job is HARD" or "that job is harder than I thought" or "well...Its not MY fault I cant do the job...the last guy you hired didnt do a good job either." See...those are what we call 'excuses' and I dont know of too many employers that give a **** about limp excuses. A good employer MIGHT just tell the whiny employee that keeps using excuses that they ought to spend more time fixing the problem than about whining about the other guy...especially since the other guy consistently maintained lower unemployment rates and ran up less debt in the same amount of time.

The president has failed. Congress has failed. If the people were smart they would toss every single one of them out by referendum and replace EVERYONE.
 
StillBallin75 said:
I've mentioned this elsewhere. I know the word "stimulus" has a pretty bad rap right now in our current political discourse
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you can say that again

Just don't call it a 'stimulus' - Alexander Burns - POLITICO.com

Echo Chamber: The new S-word? - Alexander Trowbridge - POLITICO.com

I think the problem with Obama's stimulus is that it was nowhere near large enough
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Obama: "No Such Thing as Shovel-Ready Projects" - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
 
VanceMack said:
I know this is hard for mindless ideologues to grasp...but...well...here goes...

When you apply for a job you make the statement "I can do the job". You are hired with the expectation to then "do the job." Your employer doesnt tolerate "well...dangit...the job is HARD" or "that job is harder than I thought" or "well...Its not MY fault I cant do the job...the last guy you hired didnt do a good job either." See...those are what we call 'excuses' and I dont know of too many employers that give a **** about limp excuses. A good employer MIGHT just tell the whiny employee that keeps using excuses that they ought to spend more time fixing the problem than about whining about the other guy...especially since the other guy consistently maintained lower unemployment rates and ran up less debt in the same amount of time.

The president has failed. Congress has failed. If the people were smart they would toss every single one of them out by referendum and replace EVERYONE.
Click to expand...

The problem is you think that the job is to control the economy. Frankly, it isn't. It isn't for any president. It isn't for congress. If you hired a mechanic and expected him to give you a new car, well, you're a fool.
 
haymarket said:
One cannot properly evaluate the Obama term unless one considers what he started with on the day he took over.

When George Bush entered office in Jan of 2001, the unemployment rate was 4.2%.
When he left in Jan of 2009, it was 7.6%.
That is an increase of 81%.

When Barack Obama entered office in Jan of 2009, the unemployment rate was 7.6%.
The latest figure for this May was 9.1%.
That is an increase of 19%

The rate of unemployment grown under Bush was over 400% higher than the rate of unemployment growth under Obama. That is improvement and great improvement.

Obama may not have a winning record in the minds of some, but he is like the baseball manager who took over a team which had lost 121 games in the previous year and now he has cut it to only losing 91 during his first season. Its not the World Series, but its light years better that the preceeding manager.
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You iz funny cuz you iz comparing failures and proudly proclaiming that your failure iz less bad than the other failure. :lamo

Unemployment rates dont tell the picture, do they. Unemployment rates do not reflect the "actual" unemployment rates, do they? They dont reflect those that have been on unem ployment for so long they simply fall off the map and dont qualify, do they?
 
Boo Radley said:
The problem is you think that the job is to control the economy. Frankly, it isn't. It isn't for any president. It isn't for congress. If you hired a mechanic and expected him to give you a new car, well, you're a fool.
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The American people hire a president and expect him to LEAD.

So...that Bush guy...none of the things in the country was his fault...after all its CONGRESS's job...right? You dont blame Bush and arent critical of Bush, right?
 
VanceMack said:
I know this is hard for mindless ideologues to grasp...but...well...here goes...

When you apply for a job you make the statement "I can do the job". You are hired with the expectation to then "do the job." Your employer doesnt tolerate "well...dangit...the job is HARD" or "that job is harder than I thought" or "well...Its not MY fault I cant do the job...the last guy you hired didnt do a good job either." See...those are what we call 'excuses' and I dont know of too many employers that give a **** about limp excuses. A good employer MIGHT just tell the whiny employee that keeps using excuses that they ought to spend more time fixing the problem than about whining about the other guy...especially since the other guy consistently maintained lower unemployment rates and ran up less debt in the same amount of time.

The president has failed. Congress has failed. If the people were smart they would toss every single one of them out by referendum and replace EVERYONE.
Click to expand...

Better get crackin' on that Ron Paul campaign!
 
VanceMack said:
I know this is hard for mindless ideologues to grasp...but...well...here goes...

When you apply for a job you make the statement "I can do the job". You are hired with the expectation to then "do the job." Your employer doesnt tolerate "well...dangit...the job is HARD" or "that job is harder than I thought" or "well...Its not MY fault I cant do the job...the last guy you hired didnt do a good job either." See...those are what we call 'excuses' and I dont know of too many employers that give a **** about limp excuses. A good employer MIGHT just tell the whiny employee that keeps using excuses that they ought to spend more time fixing the problem than about whining about the other guy...especially since the other guy consistently maintained lower unemployment rates and ran up less debt in the same amount of time.

The president has failed. Congress has failed. If the people were smart they would toss every single one of them out by referendum and replace EVERYONE.
Click to expand...

but... but...it's all Bush's fault! Fire him!
 
VanceMack said:
I know this is hard for mindless ideologues to grasp...but...well...here goes...

When you apply for a job you make the statement "I can do the job". You are hired with the expectation to then "do the job." Your employer doesnt tolerate "well...dangit...the job is HARD" or "that job is harder than I thought" or "well...Its not MY fault I cant do the job...the last guy you hired didnt do a good job either." See...those are what we call 'excuses' and I dont know of too many employers that give a **** about limp excuses. A good employer MIGHT just tell the whiny employee that keeps using excuses that they ought to spend more time fixing the problem than about whining about the other guy...especially since the other guy consistently maintained lower unemployment rates and ran up less debt in the same amount of time.

The president has failed. Congress has failed. If the people were smart they would toss every single one of them out by referendum and replace EVERYONE.
Click to expand...

I think your example would have been better if you had included co-workers constantly hurling hand grenades and banana peels at you the whole time youre doing your job.

The right is SO certain that their way is the only way that they will let the whole country go down before accepting any compromise.

(Of course this could result in being able to hire Americans for $2 a day, and that's what they want, so its not surprising)
 
Whovian said:
but... but...it's all Bush's fault! Fire him!
Click to expand...

I don't blame Bush (entirely) for the recession.

I do blame him for fighting two wars, initiating a new Medicare program, all the while cutting taxes to little avail.
 
VanceMack said:
The American people hire a president and expect him to LEAD.

So...that Bush guy...none of the things in the country was his fault...after all its CONGRESS's job...right? You dont blame Bush and arent critical of Bush, right?
Click to expand...

Lead yes. Control the economy no. They are two different things.

Bush, like Obama, is responsible for what he did. He couldn't control the econonmy either. But he did start two needless wars, abuse power, and lie to the people. But he could not control the economy.
 
Boo Radley said:
Lead yes. Control the economy no. They are two different things.

Bush, like Obama, is responsible for what he did. He couldn't control the econonmy either. But he did start two needless wars, abuse power, and lie to the people. But he could not control the economy.
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Saaaaaweeeeeeet...now...next time, you might want to jump in adress someone like...oh...Haymarkets comments. Im sorta curious why you didnt jump all over that...no...wait...Im not. I know why you ignored the mindless liberal diatribe and responded to my comments instead (and ignore the fact that I include congress in my "walk of shame").
 
What if...? said:
I think your example would have been better if you had included co-workers constantly hurling hand grenades and banana peels at you the whole time youre doing your job.

The right is SO certain that their way is the only way that they will let the whole country go down before accepting any compromise.

(Of course this could result in being able to hire Americans for $2 a day, and that's what they want, so its not surprising)
Click to expand...

Dood...why do poeple like you CONSTANTLY jump in about the president and IGNORE the fact that in that very post you cited I blamed Bush AND both parties in congress?
 
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haymarket said:
One cannot properly evaluate the Obama term unless one considers what he started with on the day he took over.

When George Bush entered office in Jan of 2001, the unemployment rate was 4.2%.
When he left in Jan of 2009, it was 7.6%.
That is an increase of 81%.

When Barack Obama entered office in Jan of 2009, the unemployment rate was 7.6%.
The latest figure for this May was 9.1%.
That is an increase of 19%

The rate of unemployment grown under Bush was over 400% higher than the rate of unemployment growth under Obama. That is improvement and great improvement.

Obama may not have a winning record in the minds of some, but he is like the baseball manager who took over a team which had lost 121 games in the previous year and now he has cut it to only losing 91 during his first season. Its not the World Series, but its light years better that the preceeding manager.
Click to expand...

What Obama is doing would be something similar to the new General Manager of a professional baseball team coming in and building a new team. The team is full of new players and the entire coaching staff has been replaced.

That team sucks and doesn't make the playoffs. The General Manager meets with the press at the start of the next season and blames the previous management for the team sucking. That's insane.

The excuse works the first few months of the season but at a certain point just except the fact that what you're doing isn't working.

President Obama has been working with his own team since he was elected.
 
VanceMack said:
Saaaaaweeeeeeet...now...next time, you might want to jump in adress someone like...oh...Haymarkets comments. Im sorta curious why you didnt jump all over that...no...wait...Im not. I know why you ignored the mindless liberal diatribe and responded to my comments instead (and ignore the fact that I include congress in my "walk of shame").
Click to expand...

Haven't seen it. But can't he read what I wrote as well as you? And I have said, in this thread even, that there was little differnece between how liberals view this and conservatives. I said it was odd.

And I don't dispute congress is also included, so there is no need to address it other than to say they don't control the eonomy either.
 
StillBallin75 said:
I don't blame Bush (entirely) for the recession.

I do blame him for fighting two wars, initiating a new Medicare program, all the while cutting taxes to little avail.
Click to expand...

would that be the same Medicare program that most liberals whine that the GOP wants to destroy?
 
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