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New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 victims

Ah, yes, here's your American atheist in full form.

These particular atheists are complete idiots.

I've never met a single atheist that is anything like these particular atheists. Please do not hang this idiocy on atheism.



TED,
Apatheist.
 
There is nothing in the Constitution that says there is any " separation of church and state."

Indeed, the 1st amendment is not a part of the original constitution; those precise words are not required for secularism. There is also the legal precedence.

Second what do Atheists fear?

Money wasted respecting any religion, minority religions being marginalized, stunted scientific progress, creationism in science classes, medical treatment withheld based on delusions, child abuse, pedophiles being protected, unwarranted tax-exemption and illogical ideas given any respect at all.

They fight so hard against something they claim doesn't exist. That is kind of nuts isn't it.

Fighting to not have your tax dollars spent on a delusion != fighting against something they claim doesn't exist. You cannot fight the flying spaghetti monster for we have no reason to even believe he exists, what you can fight is money being taken from you by force to support the worship of his noodly appendages.
 
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So... let me get this straight... if it was not for the religious people who are outraged over this and wanting to use it for political gain against the athiest community, a community they hate and want banned if not dealt with like the old days... then this story would have died in its infancy and be registered under "some idiot complains over a name"?

No, it still would've gotten a mention. These kinds of conflicts sell copy.

Please do not blame religious people for the circus that is this "news item."
 
New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 Victims - FoxNews.com



Ah, yes, here's your American atheist in full form.

Question: If you truly believe there is no such thing as God, and therefore our lives and deaths don't really mean anything, why do you care? Why is this such a big deal? Is this not like scolding people for watching vampire movies, or children for watching Barney?

Or is it......you crave worth and attention and must be acknowledged no matter what.

Atheists are funny. They've created an existence out of nothing. I don't believe in unicorns, but I didn't fashion a title for myself, nor do I practice within a group, to acknowledge that I don't believe in unicorns.

The name of the street is stupid - ok - it just is. Aside it being a ridiculous name - I'm actually offended in the reverse: on behalf of religion. Heaven to many people is very sacred and special - not to be plastered on a street sign.

On the flip side - I've driven down so many religoiusly named streets like 'ascention drive' and 'rapture avenue' in my life I don't find another religiously named street to be out of line.
 
I've defended Westboro without condoning what they do.

Whenever the lowest of us wins a civil rights argument, all of us benefit.

Agreed, if you don't believe in the freedoms of speech and to organize of your most hated enemy, you don't believe in it IMO.
 
I've defended Westboro without condoning what they do.

Whenever the lowest of us wins a civil rights argument, all of us benefit.

I was never trying to say their right to be hateful assholes shouldn't be defended. Just that defending hateful assholery itself shouldn't.

Likewise, I don't think the OP is challenging the right of this atheist group to be whiny and ridiculous. He was, for some reason, expecting atheists to defend whiny ridiculousness itself. Which, nearest, I can tell, none of us really have...
 
I think this group is an ill-considered representation of all athiests, so I'll ignore your generalizations there.

I have no problem with those black and white God billboards, or church advertisements, or evangelicals on television. I don't really care of we name a street "God's way", "The Path of Christ" or anything else. This is one group of idiots trying to bring publicity to their cause. Not being an active believer in God, I still don't see any justification for their argument. This sign in no way violates Separation of Church and State assuming the men who died were all of a Christian orientation, so their argument is moot, too.

All of that said, why is it not okay for them to act like idiots, but perfectly okay for you to disrespect their beliefs?
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you this time. Maybe you're different, but I've found most atheists I've met online to be assholes when discussing or debating religion. They usually turn into mouthfoaming rabid animals, shortly after the debate begins. Don't believe me, just hang around. They're not just non-believers, they hate religion with a passion. Words like "Flat-earthers" usually pops up at least once in every debate with them. Then they'll start talking about how the founders were deists or atheists and hated God with all their souls, especially Thomas Jefferson.
 
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both sides have their crazies. IMO the only people who are offended by something like this are those who are going out of their way to choose to be offended.

There may be crazy Atheists, but Atheism, by definition, is not crazy.

That being said, some of the idiotic generalizations of atheists in this thread are pretty disgusting as well.

You must be talking about someone else.
 
Seeing how a lot of atheist say God is a fairy tale the bible is nothing more than a Harry Potter book then I am pretty sure they have no problem claiming God is not real.

As an Atheist, who associates with many other Atheists, I feel fairly qualified to judge.

Those are two different propositions. The Bible is mostly nonsense, and should be dismissed fairly quickly. However, that says nothing about the prospect of a supreme being, or 'prime mover' (Deism) which is a little more resilient. In that case, it's more of an issue of a lack of evidence, as well as the fact that our present understanding of physics and biology is such that we can imagine a compelling picture of the origin of the universe, etc., without resorting to such concepts as god.
 
I was never trying to say their right to be hateful assholes shouldn't be defended. Just that defending hateful assholery itself shouldn't.

I don't understand the distinction. Could you clarify?

Not giving you a hard time, just trying to grog what you're saying. :)

Likewise, I don't think the OP is challenging the right of this atheist group to be whiny and ridiculous. He was, for some reason, expecting atheists to defend whiny ridiculousness itself. Which, nearest, I can tell, none of us really have...

I agree. The OP displayed the same kind of silliness I've seen "liberals" throw at "conservatives" and vice versa on this board.
 
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you this time. Maybe you're different, but I've found most atheists I've met online to be assholes when discussing or debating religion. They usually turn into mouthfoaming rabid animals, shortly after the debate begins. Don't believe me, just hang around. They're not just non-believers, they hate religion with a passion. Words like "Flat-earthers" usually pops up at least once in every debate with them. Then they'll start talking about how the founders were deists or atheists and hated God with all their souls, especially Thomas Jefferson.

Every group has its wingnuts.
 
I don't understand the distinction. Could you clarify?

Not giving you a hard time, just trying to grog what you're saying. :)

Defending their right to say it vs. defending what they're saying as being legitimate or correct.
 
chuckles- this whole thread is a fair tale.

Religion is a “belief” either you believe or your don't. There is no fact needed. Asking one to prove his belief is just asinine ….. Usually I come back to them with prove to me that you love your wife or kids …. give me undeniable proof. They can't either, so I guess using the same system .. .they don't love their wife and kids either.

Atheists choose not to believe in God, and there is nothing wrong with that what-so-ever, but for them to claim that science is on their side is just as silly, science has offered up their view of how the universe was created, but that is all it is … their view.... after all we all know that science have never been wrong before right ? Believing in a science that is claiming how something .. anything happened a billion years ago ….. is nothing more then a belief … it's certainly cannot be called factual.

Those that choose to not believe, will believe what “fits” their beliefs, those that chose to believe choose to believe what “fits” their beliefs... it's really all nothing more then a matter of what one believes …

As for the op …. it's just another example of the new age we are living in, designed to separate people, 20 to 30 years ago .. this would have been a non story and only known to those that happened to be involved one way or the other.
 
chuckles- this whole thread is a fair tale.

Religion is a “belief” either you believe or your don't. There is no fact needed. Asking one to prove his belief is just asinine ….. Usually I come back to them with prove to me that you love your wife or kids …. give me undeniable proof. They can't either, so I guess using the same system .. .they don't love their wife and kids either.

Atheists choose not to believe in God, and there is nothing wrong with that what-so-ever, but for them to claim that science is on their side is just as silly, science has offered up their view of how the universe was created, but that is all it is … their view.... after all we all know that science have never been wrong before right ? Believing in a science that is claiming how something .. anything happened a billion years ago ….. is nothing more then a belief … it's certainly cannot be called factual.

Those that choose to not believe, will believe what “fits” their beliefs, those that chose to believe choose to believe what “fits” their beliefs... it's really all nothing more then a matter of what one believes …

As for the op …. it's just another example of the new age we are living in, designed to separate people, 20 to 30 years ago .. this would have been a non story and only known to those that happened to be involved one way or the other.

Your answer evades the question. I seriously doubt anyone has ever asked you to prove you believe. They're asking you to prove what you believe IN. The logic of your answer is backwards enough that it probably caused them to stare at you just long enough for you to be able to claim "See? You're no more rational than me!" before they had a chance to articulate why that's a fallacious argument.

And trying to equate science, which is based on a consistent methadology, provable reality, and a mind-boggling succession of checks and balances to a belief in a deity created by cavemen is a very standard and yet unbelievably offensive display of intellectual dishonesty.

People don't choose what they believe. I'm not an atheist because it "fits." I'm an atheist because nothing else makes any sense and I can't force myself to believe in something illogical. And I very seriously doubt you're religious because it "fits."
 
People don't choose what they believe. I'm not an atheist because it "fits." I'm an atheist because nothing else makes any sense and I can't force myself to believe in something illogical. And I very seriously doubt you're religious because it "fits."

It’s possible, actually I think it’s likely, that there isn’t symmetry in this. You’re an atheist because nothing else makes any sense under studied process of rational assessment. Most haven’t studied anything that approaches assessment. I found the same lack of thinking in engineering. Most engineers would have a concept of how to do something the ‘correct’ way and never question the basis of the ‘correct’ way. When shown in the lab that the ‘correct’ way not correct and the basis was not correct or misapplied, they would still irrationally still believe and defend the ’correct’ way. You don’t even need a god to deny the existence of to have this happen.
 
New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 Victims - FoxNews.com



Ah, yes, here's your American atheist in full form.

Question: If you truly believe there is no such thing as God, and therefore our lives and deaths don't really mean anything, why do you care? Why is this such a big deal? Is this not like scolding people for watching vampire movies, or children for watching Barney?

Or is it......you crave worth and attention and must be acknowledged no matter what.

Atheists are funny. They've created an existence out of nothing. I don't believe in unicorns, but I didn't fashion a title for myself, nor do I practice within a group, to acknowledge that I don't believe in unicorns.

I'm sorry they feel insulted. I wonder how insulted the families feel that they want to take a road sign dedicated to firefighters and make a scene out of it.
 
chuckles- this whole thread is a fair tale.

Religion is a “belief” either you believe or your don't. There is no fact needed. Asking one to prove his belief is just asinine ….. Usually I come back to them with prove to me that you love your wife or kids …. give me undeniable proof. They can't either, so I guess using the same system .. .they don't love their wife and kids either.
I've always liked that response.
 
I'm sorry they feel insulted. I wonder how insulted the families feel that they want to take a road sign dedicated to firefighters and make a scene out of it.

Maybe one of the firefighters was an atheist and his loss was greater than the rest because he is not in heaven.
 
I really don't get what the big deal is, so it has the word "heaven" in it. Is that hurting anyone? No. So why make a big deal over it?
 
Maybe one of the firefighters was an atheist and his loss was greater than the rest because he is not in heaven.

If that is the case then the sign is an atrocity. That being said, if that was so, the family would have complained.
 
I really don't get what the big deal is, so it has the word "heaven" in it. Is that hurting anyone? No. So why make a big deal over it?

What's really crazy is that most of this would probably never have happened if they added an "s" to it.
 
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