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US troops coming home? Obama to say on Wednesday

Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

You don't actually think that this regime is going to cut spending, just because we retreated from Afghanistan.

No way!. The largest part of the budget is the entitlement programs and it is considered political suicide to cut welfare or medicare

Pulling the troops out and reducing unnecessary spending by the military, even if it is a minor part of the budget compared to the entitlement programs, is a necessity and it's going to happen....Its the socialist ****ed up regime mentality
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

A-stan is a tribal culture without a real sense of national identity. They may call themselves Afghanis (aka Afghan people), some of the time, but their primary loyalties are to the tribe.

Doesn't matter. Afghanistan is not the US. What happens there is up to them.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

Doesn't matter. Afghanistan is not the US. What happens there is up to them.

It'll be up to us...again...in a few years.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

It'll be up to us...again...in a few years.

It should never be up to us, and it wasn't when we invaded. Because our leaders didn't know better, were imperialistic, doesn't mean it was up to us.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

Doesn't matter. Afghanistan is not the US. What happens there is up to them.

Thats kinda funny...
What happens there is up to them

Debt to GDP ratio is expected to hit 70% or higher by the end of the year. 100% by 2021. And this is a death spiral that is going to get worse in the US

Forget social security, Boo. It will cease to exist by the time many of us can collect while, the Taliban will be goat ****ing away

Hmmmm....Wonder who is is really getting ****ed here? The goats or us?
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

It should never be up to us, and it wasn't when we invaded. Because our leaders didn't know better, were imperialistic, doesn't mean it was up to us.

Yeah, nevermind that we were attacked by people, hiding in Afghanistan, being given sanctuary by the Taliban.

But hey, let's go ahead and let history repeat itself. I hope it's not your kid that has to die in the next war, because we didn't finish this one.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

Yeah, nevermind that we were attacked by people, hiding in Afghanistan, being given sanctuary by the Taliban.

But hey, let's go ahead and let history repeat itself. I hope it's not your kid that has to die in the next war, because we didn't finish this one.

Go get those people. Fine. No problem. Invade and take the nation away for the people? No. It is their country and not ours.

You still mistake a country for being responsible. Those who attacked us came from SA and Pakistan, our allies. They were not from Afghanistan. And OBL being there doesn't change that. Until you understand that we cannot invade enough countries to rid the world of an organization, you will keep supporting a repeat of the same mistakes.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

Go get those people. Fine. No problem. Invade and take the nation away for the people? No. It is their country and not ours.

You still mistake a country for being responsible. Those who attacked us came from SA and Pakistan, our allies. They were not from Afghanistan. And OBL being there doesn't change that. Until you understand that we cannot invade enough countries to rid the world of an organization, you will keep supporting a repeat of the same mistakes.

It's not their country anymore, either. Obama is surrendering to the Taliban.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

It's not their country anymore, either. Obama is surrendering to the Taliban.

You could have argued his point with a much better rebuttal than "obama is surrendering to the taliban".

Boo radley, we already are there, and simply "taking the nation away" is not what is occurring. Read all of cpwill's posts and tell me you still think a withdrawl is what is going to do it. You can't just track people down without having people on the ground.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

We can't fight a war without money. There's no point in trying to improve security situations overseas when our domestic situation is rapidly deteriorating. It would be like caring for the branches of a tree while the roots are rotting.

Obama's speech was succinct. We have more concerns on the home front. Will there be consequences to the withdrawal? Probably. But we have no choice if we are going to survive as a nation. The military is not sacrosanct under the economic conditions - nothing is.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

We can't fight a war without money. There's no point in trying to improve security situations overseas when our domestic situation is rapidly deteriorating. It would be like caring for the branches of a tree while the roots are rotting.

Obama's speech was succinct. We have more concerns on the home front. Will there be consequences to the withdrawal? Probably. But we have no choice if we are going to survive as a nation. The military is not sacrosanct under the economic conditions - nothing is.

But there is no economic crisis currently in terms of our finances. We are not currently bankrupt and out of money. We can afford Afghanistan, I hate to tell you.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

We can't fight a war without money. There's no point in trying to improve security situations overseas when our domestic situation is rapidly deteriorating. It would be like caring for the branches of a tree while the roots are rotting.

Obama's speech was succinct. We have more concerns on the home front. Will there be consequences to the withdrawal? Probably. But we have no choice if we are going to survive as a nation. The military is not sacrosanct under the economic conditions - nothing is.

Perhaps the stealfromus package could have been spent more wisely?
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

But there is no economic crisis currently in terms of our finances. We are not currently bankrupt and out of money. We can afford Afghanistan, I hate to tell you.

I hate to tell you....replacing the Afghan culture with something else is simply NOT achievable. This continued task would take a couple of generations and thousands of deaths and a tons of money.

The *political position* is that we must get out to reduce expenditures is half the truth. The real truth of the matter is, the current regime with many in Congress see reduced military spending as a red herring to distract the masses from the actual and ongoing increase of spending in other sectors.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

And, for the rest of our lives, we'll have to listen to the libbos go on-n-on about how we lost Afghanistan.

If it wasn't war it really would be funny!

Hillary Clinton, asks "Whose side are you on?" Hillary Clinton to Libya War Critics: 'Whose Side Are You On?' - Hillary Clinton - Fox Nation

George Bush must have had one pf his famous chuckles at hearing that.

And Barrack Obama, appropriately enough, is "leading from the rear", as many of us often suspected. He talks through that way often enough/

At one time spies would have to risk their lives in order to discover any info on their enemy but now the American President is telling everyone when the troop withdrawal will actually begin. I doubt Churchill would ever mentioned that to Hitler. Or maybe he's realizes that no one takes his words seriously anymore, so whatever he says doesn't really matter.

It seems clear he was padding his resume when he called himself a 'Community Organizer".
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

But....but...didn't candidate Obama, in 2008, support the people of Afghanistan?

Obama calls situation in Afghanistan 'urgent' - CNN

And he was right. I know nuance isn't liked by many who support imperialistic efforts, but nuance is required. Afghanstan deserved more attention than Iraq. Bush dropped the ball going on the snipe hunt in Iraq. So, when Obama said in 2008 that the focus needed to be there, he was right, and I ageed. Obama was wrong later when he went with the surge and continued nation building. You may not understand this, but there are rarely only two options. The better focus would have been to simply keep viglent on those issues that concern us, like training camps and threats, leavng Afghanistan to the Afghan people.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

You could have argued his point with a much better rebuttal than "obama is surrendering to the taliban".

Boo radley, we already are there, and simply "taking the nation away" is not what is occurring. Read all of cpwill's posts and tell me you still think a withdrawl is what is going to do it. You can't just track people down without having people on the ground.

I'm very familar with CP and his thoughts. We've discussed much over the years. Nor do I say we're taking the nation away. I state quite clearly that this is simply their country and up to them. Period. What we're doing has nothing to do with. Their country is theirs, for them to decide. Not us.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

Yeah, nevermind that we were attacked by people, hiding in Afghanistan, being given sanctuary by the Taliban.

But hey, let's go ahead and let history repeat itself. I hope it's not your kid that has to die in the next war, because we didn't finish this one.

No, not really. The people who attacked us died in the planes. The head of the group was in Afghanstan, and not really hiding at the time. Later, he hid in Pakistan. But group members are largely all over the world. The point is, we can't invade everyone.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

I'm very familar with CP and his thoughts. We've discussed much over the years. Nor do I say we're taking the nation away. I state quite clearly that this is simply their country and up to them. Period. What we're doing has nothing to do with. Their country is theirs, for them to decide. Not us.

It went from being their country and up to them when a government that sheltered terrorists aimed at destroying our nation to being a country where we make the decisions until they get back on their feet a long time ago. My personal view? We should have colonized both Afghanistan and Iraq, and then have moved on to take other parts of the Middle East. That would've worked a lot better for us in the long run. But the point is, you're right. We cannot invade everywhere. Terrorism is global. It's not just one country, with one building that says "taliban" that we are fighting to take over. But the process is arleady in effect. WE have already gotten a footing and we should finish the job, that is, at the troop levels Obama has given, continue to fight to push the Taliban, since they influence the entire border region with Pakistan, and begin to train their forces until they can right seat.
 
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Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

It went from being their country and up to them when a government that sheltered terrorists aimed at destroying our nation to being a country where we make the decisions until they get back on their feet a long time ago. My personal view? We should have colonized both Afghanistan and Iraq, and then have moved on to take other parts of the Middle East. That would've worked a lot better for us in the long run.

NO, it was still theirs. Afghanstan didn't attack us. Neither did the Taliban. Go get those who did. Fine. Invade and nation build, no. Imperialism comes at a cost.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

NO, it was still theirs. Afghanstan didn't attack us. Neither did the Taliban. Go get those who did. Fine. Invade and nation build, no. Imperialism comes at a cost.

But we didn't fully do imperialism though. We didn't get any benefit to our nation from it. We should have colonized the entire region and taken their oil.

heres the rest of my post I edited it while you made the response.

But the point is, you're right. We cannot invade everywhere. Terrorism is global. It's not just one country, with one building that says "taliban" that we are fighting to take over. But the process is arleady in effect. WE have already gotten a footing and we should finish the job, that is, at the troop levels Obama has given, continue to fight to push the Taliban, since they influence the entire border region with Pakistan, and begin to train their forces until they can right seat.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

But we didn't fully do imperialism though. We didn't get any benefit to our nation from it. We should have colonized the entire region and taken their oil.

heres the rest of my post I edited it while you made the response.

It's been a decade. Their troops should be largely trained by now, even with the snipe hunt in Iraq. And we can still hit terrorist, even with a small contingent. We do not need to occupy and nation build to do that. The Taliban has never shown any real interest in much out side their area. They are not Al Qaeda, unless of course our mistakes has added a new demention to them, which we then could still contain and destroy without occupying and nation building.

Yes, you're right that we were only semi imperialistic, but much too far down that road for my tastes. We need to interact with the world, but not seek to control it. Hell, even Reagan understood that.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

But the thing is we were not focusing on training them years ago. That was not the policy of the Bush admin. We had around 20-40k troops in Afghanistan at the time. And the nation building is necessary to have the civilians, who are the first line of fighting terror, as cpwill said, "buy in" to the new government.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

Yeah I don't blame you. I have some buddies who have made life time careers out of the Coast Guard but as enlisted military seems like a tough life, especially since you have a family. Wouldn't that be just great if you went to the NG then got deployed to Afghanistan... :D You're stationed in Japan right now though? Just basing that on your profile thing.

Okinawa right now; though I travel around a bit.

Maybe experiences were not too different then :d

lol, maybe not.

I have a good feeling we are going to see those 4 fighting seasons

I hope so, man. :( I've lost good buddies now in Iraq and Afghanistan. With Iraq, you can tell yourself "yeah, but look what they bought with their lives - that's worth it, that's something you can hang your hat on". Choosing to lose in Afghanistan.... it would be the opposite of that.

If this current withdrawl plan was really that bad and was going to be that horrible for security I have a feeling we'd have seen a major dissent amongst military leaders and some resignations in the civilian side

you do have major dissent among the military leaders and the civilian side. Patraeus and Gates have both gone as far as decorum allows in letting it be known that they oppose this withdrawal plan and the original artificial withdrawal date that guides it.

I know a military leader can't just take off his uniform when he disagrees with the President and go home, but if it was that bad I'd bet for example the guy appointed to be joint chiefs chair wouldn't have stuck around.

In fact they passed over their first pick and it is rumored for roughly that reason.

I thin we are going to see exactly what you said or something similar, but the military leaders are going to be able to handle it with that many troops the President has given the OK to. The withdrawl plan I think is stupid though you are right about that - one thing I noticed though is that 2014 isn't when we agree to leave, it's when we agree to put Afghanistan in full charge (we as in ISAF, not the us specfically)

again, I hope so. we will have to see how badly Obama needs to shore up his base going into fall 2012.
 
Re: President Obama To Announce Details of Afghanistan Strategy On Wednesday

But the thing is we were not focusing on training them years ago. That was not the policy of the Bush admin. We had around 20-40k troops in Afghanistan at the time.

precisely. Much was made of Rumsfelds' "you go to war with the military you have" comment - but not enough has been emphasized that you go to war with the doctrine that you have as well. up until late 2005/2006, the brass seems to have largely thought it was still fighting Desert Storm - and that what was needed was big-line-units sweeping boldly across geography. Not until 2006/2007 do we see the development of and implementation of the quote/unquote "new" counterinsurgency doctrine, and even then it was test-run first by the Marines in Ramada and Fallujah, then in the rest of the Sunni Triangle, and then the Army took those lessons into Baghdad. They didn't have the thing really nailed down until 2008 - and then it was an election year, so on and so forth; so we didn't get to start looking into "surge" ing in Afghanistan until 2009, and didn't start putting boots on the deck until 2010. One of my sister Battalions was the first to go, in December 2009 / Januaray 2010.

So we haven't really had a decade. We've had 18 months. And in that 18 months we've seen very impressive results.
 
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